00:00:01.259 - 00:00:32.549

Ok, thank you professor. And here are my questions. Um So maybe we can start with describe um October 8th that night, the weird night. What can you remember from that time? Yeah. Um So let's see. So I was living in Santa Rosa in like the um,

00:00:33.490 - 00:00:51.810

near the JC in the junior college neighborhood. And, uh, you know, so I was living with my, my then wife and a little townhouse that we rented and, uh, we were, we were fairly new to California. We moved to California in 2016. So we had no

00:00:51.819 - 00:01:06.279

idea like about the wildfires and I just kind of assumed that they were things that happened like way over at National Forests and you just didn't really have to worry about them too much. Um So it wasn't really on my radar to like interpret what was

00:01:06.290 - 00:01:24.330

happening that night as like a fire. Um But there were things like we noticed that the wind was really, really like intense and it seemed in the evening just felt really, really, it, it was like, it was getting warmer, you know, throughout the, the, the course

00:01:24.339 - 00:01:45.120

of the evening rather than getting cooler. Um, and, uh, the, the weirdest thing was that, um, you could tell as the wind was whipping, um, you could tell as the wind was whipping that it had like material in it, you know. Um, and I went out,

00:01:45.129 - 00:01:58.650

I stepped out into our little backyard, the patio area and you could feel that there was like debris in the air. It wasn't obviously like burning, it wasn't like embers, but there was like stuff in the air and it was just like, I, I had no

00:01:58.660 - 00:02:13.408

way to interpret that. I still, at that moment I had, didn't, couldn't interpret it as like a fire. I was just like, weird, like, why is there debris in the air? That's really bizarre. Um, so, but we were like, ok, it's weird night, you know, that,

00:02:13.419 - 00:02:27.488

you know, just go to bed, right. Um, but it was weird enough that, like, throughout the night I didn't really sleep too well and I started kind of, I woke up and it still seemed like things were weird outside and, and I started checking my phone

00:02:28.279 - 00:02:42.850

and, you know, was kind of obsessively looking at Twitter. I was like, what, what is this like, you know, what's going on here? And, uh, you know, I, I started seeing the rumors about what was happening and that there was this massive fire and it had

00:02:42.860 - 00:03:05.039

barrel down into Santa Rosa. And, um, and, uh, yeah, I mean, I remember, um, early that next morning, you know, seeing some of the very specific rumors about like, places like Kaiser at the time like that, this was not truthful but online you were seeing that

00:03:05.050 - 00:03:25.470

Kaiser had burned down and like, maybe like the cutting town mall had burned down and like it, the what you were reading, it seemed like kind of like, um, you know, apocalyptic, you know. Um, so, uh I suggested to, to Nadia that we, we needed to

00:03:25.479 - 00:03:42.440

get out of there. Um, and luckily she agreed and we started to kind of put together some things that, you know, are our most important things and, um, got, um, our, our pet at the time, Ozzie a cat and started to get ready to, to, uh,

00:03:42.449 - 00:03:57.630

to, to leave. Um, and there, it was just weird stuff going on right. There were police coming by and like sirens and like, low, the low sirens where they, you know, they weren't driving fast, like they clearly were trying to signal some kind of emergency but

00:03:57.639 - 00:04:11.160

weren't taking the time to, like, communicate what it was and our next door neighbor for some bizarre to this day. I don't really, really know why he showed up at our door, totally freaked out and he got in a fight somehow and his face was bloody.

00:04:11.169 - 00:04:23.209

It was really weird. Like I had no idea what was going on and never communicated with him again about that night. Um, but so I don't, I don't know what that was but it was just a really, really bizarre night where it kind of felt like,

00:04:24.130 - 00:04:41.890

you know, just had no idea what was going on. Um, and that was, you know, the, that was the worst period, you know, feeling like, you know, your, our lives might be radically changed for the worst tonight and not really fully understanding what was happening. Um,

00:04:42.809 - 00:04:58.029

but luckily, you know, it, the worst didn't happen to us at least. And we, we got our things, we left the house, we locked it. Um, and we drove, not really knowing where we were gonna drive. Um And the traffic was horrific because everyone else was

00:04:58.040 - 00:05:14.390

trying to do the same thing. Um And we ended up in Paloma and uh there were people just kind of lining the streets, um, you know, parked in places, they would never, never normally park because Paloma kind of felt like it was outside the reach of

00:05:14.399 - 00:05:30.010

what was happening and we went to a restaurant there kind of like a diner style place. Um, and it was packed absolutely packed and the wait times were were, were horrific and like they, it was funny, I mean, it was not funny but like the staff

00:05:30.019 - 00:05:50.260

they brought in extra staff, like there was this one person who, who was talking with us and commiserating with us who had called in her mother to like to work that day. Um That's intense. And so, um, when you say you saw the ash or the

00:05:50.269 - 00:06:08.839

embers was, there wasn't any fire, like, smoke that you could smell. Surprisingly. No, I mean, that, that night, yeah. Just still, I had no clue that it was a fire until when we left that morning. Right. So when I saw the stuff in the air, that

00:06:08.850 - 00:06:20.079

was that night, like, let's say around 10, like, kind of before heading to bed things. But when we left in the morning, like there was, it was at that point, it was obvious that it was a fire because we had, I had seen the stuff on

00:06:20.089 - 00:06:36.299

Twitter and also we were close enough to the fire in the JC area that like you could see the glowing, um, the glow of the fire, right? I took some pictures that are really just extraordinary of, um, just the, the fire being being right down the

00:06:36.309 - 00:06:57.390

road. No. And so since you guys weren't um prepared, I'm guessing that you didn't have a bag ready or water or anything. No. Ok. I didn't have, ok. So how long did it take for you guys to pack? What was important? How was that process like?

00:06:58.299 - 00:07:11.170

Mm. Did you put a timer like grab everything you can in a half an hour? No, we didn't even do that. We had no idea what we were doing, you know, and I think, and we just, it was kind of a mad house like I can't

00:07:11.179 - 00:07:27.649

even, I think we probably did things we looked for like documents, you know, we got the important ID stuff like, you know, passport and like, you know, marriage certificate kind of things and financial documents and, you know, maybe, maybe we grabbed like some personal things like

00:07:27.660 - 00:07:41.640

photos that were really important to us. I can't even remember and then stuff for Ozzie, you know, the kind of cat stuff and enough clothes to, you know, to, to tide us over for some period of time which we had no idea what it, how long

00:07:41.649 - 00:07:55.549

that might be. Um, so, yeah, it was kind of a, it was a disorganized madhouse and we took it probably slower than we should. Um, but yeah, we did it. And, uh, and yeah, luckily we got out of there and, uh, and as it, as it

00:07:55.559 - 00:08:10.809

happened, the fire had stopped, we lived maybe about half a mile from Kaiser. So the fire was about half a mile away. So we weren't under like immediate, I guess distress if, you know, the wind had kept up with the fire, even like maybe 10, you

00:08:10.820 - 00:08:38.299

know, another hour, it probably would have gotten to where we were. But, you know, luckily, you know, we were ok. So. Mhm. Ok. So work. So how did this affect work when you, so it was October 8th, um, was that, I can't remember what day that

00:08:38.309 - 00:08:55.469

was, was that a weekend? Is that a weekday did it affect? I think it was, I think it was a Friday. Friday. Not sure. Ok. I should have looked that up. That is a good, I just thought about it right now because I'm thinking, I mean,

00:08:55.479 - 00:09:12.929

if it happened on Friday you at least have the weekend to kind of figure things out. But if it was during the week and you're working, yeah, I'm pretty sure it was a weekend because, yeah, there was a, we were, I mean, I was wondering like,

00:09:12.940 - 00:09:29.530

what, what was gonna happen with work and, um, what the plan was gonna be and Cinema State didn't come out with the notification. It felt like until really late, you know, because it felt like we were really in limbo. Um, so, so, yeah, it must have

00:09:29.539 - 00:09:43.679

been a Friday and then just a lot of, kind of anxiety and just, um, uncertainty about if work would resume or, or when, or, I mean, there was concerns that maybe the fire was fairly close to the state, you know, what are we gonna do if

00:09:43.690 - 00:10:10.890

the university burns down? Yeah. Ok. So it was on a Sunday? Ok. Cool. So, yeah, it must have been, there must have been school after, so I guess nobody must have felt like a, like a regular weekend because nobody, I guess, like, when the fire happened,

00:10:12.299 - 00:10:30.799

nobody showed up to work. What, what happened or, you know, you just don't remember exactly. I don't remember really well, I mean, ii, I do, I remember well enough. I'm pretty certain we did not go into work that Monday. Ok. Uh, that's my recollection at least.

00:10:30.809 - 00:10:46.549

And I remember there was a time period in which, like, students were still on campus. They hadn't evacuated campus yet. And then that call was made later. I couldn't tell you when. Exactly. But, um, yeah, and then there was like, then there was an issue of

00:10:46.559 - 00:10:59.780

like, how long was this kind of quote unquote break from school going to be? And then it felt like every, you know, they would say we'll be closed for two days. And I was like, well, the bars are still because as big as an event as

00:10:59.789 - 00:11:14.080

the one night was on the 7th and 8th, you know, there was, the fires were still out there and there was a concern like, oh, gosh, they could sweep back in. And, um, so it, it, it felt like it was unclear like when this disaster was

00:11:14.090 - 00:11:30.020

going to end, right. Um, and the university, my recollection or feeling was that like, you could get a notice of like, ok, you know, quit school will be closed for, until Wednesday and then Wednesday comes in, like, the people are still in crisis, what's gonna happen

00:11:30.030 - 00:11:44.669

and then you get the notice like Tuesday night and it's like, ok, yeah. All right, we're not gonna have school for the rest of the week. So, it was about just the week that you guys had off. I honestly can't remember if it was, it was

00:11:44.679 - 00:12:09.849

no more than two weeks. It was definitely at least a week. Um, yeah. Ok. Yeah. Um, and so when, when students came back, do you remember, did you just push all the assignments? What was the, what happened there? How is the relationship between you, the students

00:12:09.859 - 00:12:42.340

and the university? Yeah. Um, it's so hard to remember, like, um, uh I remember at first thinking, like, you know, being unclear if what it meant for the university to be closed, like, did that mean that, like, all teaching activities stopped or did it mean that

00:12:42.349 - 00:13:01.729

we should try to shift to some kind of like online form of education or, or I just didn't know what it meant. Right. So I remember try trying to come up with plans to even while we were kind of technically closed to try to say, you

00:13:01.739 - 00:13:14.270

know, students, you know, read, you know, this chapter and that chapter and then, you know, we'll get back to it, you know, and again, um, but luckily, I, I don't know if I was talking to a colleague or been in communication with the university. It was

00:13:14.280 - 00:13:28.880

clear that like, you know, closed means closed, right? It's not just the campus that's closed, it's the university that's closed. Um So that was a little confusing and I, I have a recollection that maybe I you know, there, maybe I sent a confusing email out to

00:13:28.890 - 00:13:48.780

students at one point, um, because I genuinely didn't understand, you know, what it meant for the campus to be closed. Um, but, um, in coming back, uh, it was, it's hard to say like it, there were lots of stories about, like there was a lot of

00:13:48.789 - 00:14:13.719

concern about, um, hearing about students who, this is where I hear this expression nomination. Um, Oh, actually, yeah, there's a, I, I've seen signs for it. Yeah. OK. I think this is where that concept came and grew out of. It's like let's come together as nomination

00:14:13.729 - 00:14:31.559

or something. And there was like a website that the university put out. I think it was like noma needs or something. And there was an attempt by the university to try to keep track of who whose lives were kind of most profoundly kind of affected. Yeah.

00:14:31.570 - 00:14:45.539

And there were rumors too like, oh so and so a staff member of person in their house burned or you hear about a student, like I remember in the anthro program, there was a, I think we had a student who, whose house burned or whose family,

00:14:45.549 - 00:15:01.780

whose family had a house who that burned. Um So it was a, it was a period of kind of trying to feel like we were all scrambling to understand like the scope of the effect, you know, on students and to provide assistance that was not just

00:15:01.789 - 00:15:24.650

about, um, you know, homework and assignments, right. But rather could, what could the university do in some broader sense to like, provide some social welfare services? Right. Um Whether it be, um, you know, maybe access to food or um the campus ended up being a relatively

00:15:24.659 - 00:15:42.299

safe place to stay even if smoking. Um So, you know, what, to, what extent could the campus serve as a resource for students as a safe place? Um, so, yeah, I kind of felt like instruction. I don't remember too much about, like, the impact on teaching

00:15:42.309 - 00:16:01.179

and learning, but more so we were all just trying to make sure everyone was safe. Right. And more, um, kind of nuts and bolts, kind of, you know, life and death kind of way, you know. Yeah. And did you feel, or did you notice a big

00:16:01.190 - 00:16:17.539

dropout rate for that semester or did people mainly, do you like anything if, if it just pops up, like, oh, you know, I had a lot of students drop out or the opposite. They were, like, really honed in to their assignments. Did you notice any trend?

00:16:20.400 - 00:16:46.799

Um, not, not really. Um, I mean, I remember there being, I remember there, there was this one student who was really concerned about the smoke. Um, and there were students who once the campus was closed, you know, there were students who, you know, the obvious move

00:16:46.809 - 00:17:01.400

for them was to go back to where their family lived, right, which for a lot of students might be Southern California. Right? So there were some students who weren't really in the area and with the messaging about campus, um, was it gonna be open? Right? You

00:17:01.409 - 00:17:16.449

can't, you can't just say, ok, tomorrow is gonna be open and expect all the kids from Southern California to come back up, you know, here and be ready for class. Right. So I, I do remember that there was particularly around the students who had left the

00:17:16.459 - 00:17:41.280

area, understandably, um, trying to be accommodating of, you know, of, um, you know, when they could be back on campus and, um, and just their ability to participate in and, and learning again. Um, and I remember even more particularly like students mainly from Southern California who

00:17:41.560 - 00:17:59.140

were really concerned about, um, uh, the smoke, right? And they were concerned, I remember this one student decided her parent, one of her parents saying, you know, my parents don't want me to go back up there because the smoke because it's unhealthy to be there. Um,

00:17:59.550 - 00:18:26.050

sorry. Um, I don't know if you're seeing this but Brandy entered the waiting room. Yeah, I, I do see that and there's no reason why you should be doing this. Ok. Just making sure that you, you saw it. Ok. Yeah. Um ok, sorry continue. Um, yeah,

00:18:26.630 - 00:18:42.199

I think those are, those are the main things, um, kind of students from outside of the area. Uh, and when, when, and how can they come back and reengage and just a general sense of like, everyone needs a break, you know. Um I'm the sort of

00:18:42.209 - 00:18:58.479

person who, I mean, I hope you realize too is, then there are definitely times when, you know, life becomes more important than work and school work in particular. Right? And this is one of those things where the idea that I was going to impose some harsh

00:18:58.489 - 00:19:14.650

standard of, you know, uh you know, attendance or um you know, meeting um deadlines for submissions. That's, that's I was not going to be invested in that, right? In some ways. I think that's probably why I can't remember it. And some of the details is because

00:19:14.989 - 00:19:39.109

I'm just, you know, II I realized that like this is a time not to worry about if assignment is gonna be submitted by midnight on Tuesday, right? Um That's just not where anyone is right now, right? So, um yeah. Um OK. Well, I guess that covers

00:19:39.119 - 00:20:05.329

most of the, the faculty stuff. So how, how did you learn to deal with the stress about the fire, you know, even after even or during? Um Yeah, I don't know. That's a great question. Um I don't know that I have no, I mean, I think

00:20:05.339 - 00:20:25.609

there are things that you can do. I mean, I now know, I feel like I have a sense of when it, when it's dangerous, right? Like I know particular days that it's when you're likely to have, you know, a fire. I know at the time I

00:20:25.619 - 00:20:44.979

didn't even know that there was like a fire season or to look out for 90 days, but like, you know, part of, part of alleviating the stress was like, or not alleviating and reducing, it was getting a sense for like, you know, um what is fire

00:20:44.989 - 00:21:00.660

season like here and how can you, you know, live with it? Um As much as you can. Um So that was a big piece. Um And I mean, uh in a smaller sense too, that it was the, that, that moment of kind of immediately post fire

00:21:00.670 - 00:21:17.599

when people were genuinely, you know, look beyond you as a, a mere coworker or as a mere, you know, student or a mere faculty when, you know, we were concerned about each other other's ability to, you know, continue to live and, you know, eat and work

00:21:17.609 - 00:21:38.579

here. Um And in that brief moment that it was it mitigated stress to reduce stress just like being able to have that moment, right? When people kind of uh cared about each other in a, a kind of communal way um that, that felt supportive and recognized

00:21:38.589 - 00:21:55.420

the, the, the tragedy of the moment. Um And I mean, outside of that, like, I don't know, I mean, it's still the stress, like, whenever, you know, whenever there's a, you know, red flag day, the kind of the windy days in October, you know, the stress

00:21:55.430 - 00:22:08.040

is there and I, you know, I check Twitter too often or look online too much to try to kind of get a sense of that. There's the media threats and what to do. I, I partly chose the place where I live now and I'm in Santa

00:22:08.050 - 00:22:24.949

Rosa, but, um, I chose the western side of Santa Rosa very intentionally because I think that's relatively safe from fire threat. Um So that helped reduce um stress in that, in that way, but it's still there, you know, like, as you can tell, like, whenever I,

00:22:25.979 - 00:22:43.599

there have been multiple times in class this, this semester when I get kind of choked up about talking about the virus, you know, you know, even this interview, right? So it's, it hasn't gone away, but it's a little bit more manageable, maybe a little bit and

00:22:44.170 - 00:23:02.359

you touched earlier about how the university didn't quite message you guys um right away and then how they said like on a Tuesday that there wouldn't be a class. Um Was there anything else that you feel like the university could have handled better or, or something

00:23:02.369 - 00:23:25.550

that they handled really well that you think? Um I mean, to, to some extent, I give the university a break because this was really unprecedented. Um And I, and, but I mean, that being said that, yeah, like, uh being really clear about kind of messaging and

00:23:25.819 - 00:23:38.709

I think this was a time to err on the side of, of compassion, which I think the university ended up doing. Right. But I think, you know, it would have been tremendously helpful to everyone to just had a, had a message I would have said, you

00:23:38.719 - 00:23:55.310

know, uh campus is closed for a week, right? Um And instead of kind of feeling like we were strung along from moment by moment. Um And then I think the second thing, uh, I mean, for me personally, I haven't heard other faculty say this but, and

00:23:55.319 - 00:24:09.349

this was definitely like a pre COVID moment. Like it was totally unclear to me what, what it meant for the campus to be closed and what that implied for instruction. Right? Um And so I was, I was unclear about that, but I, I think big picture

00:24:09.359 - 00:24:30.910

of the university did, did as well as they could. Um, and hopefully have measures of advice to do better, you know, um, the next time this happens. Ok. Um You said that, um, now you live on the, it's the east side of Santa Rosa, the west

00:24:30.920 - 00:25:01.709

side of Santa Rosa. Um Is there any other thing that the fire affected your life with other than? Yeah, the PTSD, I mean, I definitely like, um, you know, it made issues of climate change, you know, really real, right? Um And uh on a personal level

00:25:01.719 - 00:25:18.880

and I do feel a kind of a heightened commitment to I mean, I feel like folks who live in, in Sonoma County, we're kind of in the, on the front lines of climate change, you know, um, and are experiencing a level of stress and disruption that

00:25:18.890 - 00:25:36.530

will probably become the normal for a lot of people. Right? But we're kind of getting it first. Um And so, uh I think having that kind of realization and it's impacted even by teaching, right? Like being able to now have a, a, you know, a class

00:25:36.540 - 00:25:52.780

like the one that we're in um and highlighting the fires I think is really important. Um And uh so yeah, it's had a, a broader shift on, on, in me in terms of kind of even politically thinking about the importance of, of climate change and, and

00:25:52.790 - 00:26:13.229

I think it'll probably have long term impact on my, my teaching and trying to work in the issues of climate change and, and trauma and, and uh wildfire response um into, into my classes. Yeah. Nice. OK. Is there any, any final thing that you'd like to

00:26:13.239 - 00:26:40.709

share that? I didn't ask, what do you think on this? I don't think so. I think that's good. OK. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for opening up and sharing this. I know it's not easy. No, very happy to. Yeah. And, and, and good job, can I,

00:26:40.719 - 00:27:00.119

can I say one thing? Yes, how can I improve the uh was it called the Informed Consent Oral History? So, I'm very happy to to sign that document of course um and that's something that we can do um you know the next time we see each

00:27:00.130 - 00:27:16.979

other I was thinking that I was I was thinking that I was just gonna I was going to send it through email but it was just I'm gonna see you tomorrow so yeah yeah that's perfect. Yeah. Ok thank you we have I mean I do need

00:27:16.989 - 00:27:31.209

to probably get out like right at 2 30. Ok. It's up to you. Do you feel like you want to chat about some other things now or? Um, sure. Do you want like a second to just kind of, you're good? Ok. Ok. Um, yeah, about the

00:27:31.219 - 00:27:45.510

midterm I, I feel like maybe because I was doing pretty well on everything else, like, on the quizzes and everything. I thought I had it like, and I've been doing all the readings. I, I thought I was going to be good when I saw that my

00:27:45.520 - 00:28:03.310

grade was so low and I think it's the lowest one in the class, um, for the midterm because it shows like it even tells me, it even tells me like, like, what, like people were getting and I was like, oh my God. Yeah, like I was

00:28:03.319 - 00:28:18.030

like, oh, no, I did not realize I did so poorly. Um, so I was wondering if there was anything that I could do? Like, maybe even like, write a small report on it or I know it's more work for you. But I know it helped me

00:28:18.040 - 00:28:36.229

to actually learn, um, the concept and the fact that my grade went from 100% to a seven, like, 70 like a AC is just like, it, like, just destroyed me a little bit. And, um, I mean, I don't know if, um, and I know I'll, I'll

00:28:36.239 - 00:28:56.920

continue to do much better but if there is anything that I could maybe do because I do care and I want to, I'm like, I wanna make sure I can get into the master's program and I know it's competitive. Um, so, I mean, you know, iii

00:28:56.949 - 00:29:16.060

I can't offer things like, you know, uh, extra credit and that, like you say, that that would end up both being, I would have, have to offer it to all our, all our students and then that would be a significant, um, a significant amount of work.

00:29:16.069 - 00:29:35.640

Right. Um, for me. But that, that, that aside. Right. So, like, I feel like, um, the best thing to do is, um, you know, it to really go back and, um, take a look to see, um, where, where your weaknesses were on the exam. I couldn't

00:29:35.650 - 00:29:51.239

even see that. It, like, it just showed me like, all I saw was like the, the percentile and it's like this was average, this was the high, this is you, I was like, ok, well, that doesn't tell me what I did wrong. Yeah, that's unfortunate. I

00:29:51.250 - 00:30:30.770

wish, I wish it didn't work that way. I'll see if I can go back in and I totally understand that the answer is no. But I would say with the whole, it being more work, if you put it out

00:30:30.780 - 00:31:41.609

to the class, I'm pretty sure no one else would do it. Kind of like going into this, the zoom. Like, I'm pretty sure that, how about this? So I feel a little bit pressured on time to

00:31:41.619 - 00:31:56.739

do this well, right now, but like, I think what we could do, I didn't realize you didn't have access to um uh uh a sense, a better sense of, of how you did on the exam. What if we were to set up another time? And then

00:31:56.750 - 00:32:13.780

I could, we could actually kind of walk through the exam and you could see specifically, you know, which, which questions you will we on. Um And then, you know, kind of develop a plan from then from there about kind of it, you know, feeling like maybe

00:32:13.790 - 00:32:26.030

you want to kind of um revisit some of the concepts. So make sure you, you feel like you understand them and we can talk about kind of how to go about, about doing that. Um But I think the first step would be to, you know, to

00:32:26.040 - 00:32:42.020

spend, it probably is not gonna take too long sevenish minutes. Um to just, I can show you kind of over zoom and share my screen and take a look through um your exam. Yeah, actually that would be amazing. I can do, I can even do um

00:32:42.400 - 00:32:58.300

I'll go ahead and sign up for office hours for, for us to really go over it. Cool. Thank you. No, you're welcome. I think that's I, like I said, I didn't realize that you had such little information about about the exam besides just the score. Um

00:32:58.310 - 00:33:14.449

so yeah, let's do that. Ok, great cool. So then um do you wanna just say that? Do you wanna do a quick overview now or should I just make a probably better to just make the new? I kind of think so because we have like five

00:33:14.459 - 00:33:29.219

minutes. I think that will be enough time when we get cut off and all of that. And so I think it's easier just to kind of do it when we have enough time to go through it. Ok, perfect. Oh I gonna stop recording and that's it.