00:00:00.680 - 00:00:21.829

Ok. There we go. Ok. So, uh, uh, Melissa Burroughs. Melissa Burroughs and Leanna Le. Ok, I'm here with them. And, uh, you're a sheriff in the jail and I'm a retired lieutenant. Ok. I, ok, so I'm gonna go ahead and get started with the questions. Um,

00:00:21.840 - 00:00:37.970

so the first question is, have you guys or any of you experienced a traumatic natural disaster before the 2017 tubs fire? If so when, where, what happened and did that lead you to prepare for a natural disaster in any way? And if you need me to

00:00:37.979 - 00:00:54.610

repeat the question, I can repeat it. It's kind of a long, um, I don't recall a natural disaster occurring. I mean, there's emergencies and disasters within our facility where we've had to use evacuation drills. Um, but as far as a natural disaster, I have not experienced

00:00:54.619 - 00:01:13.809

one myself either. Ok. Ok. Um, do you recall how you found out about the tubs fire on the night of October 8th? 2017? Yes. Yes. Uh, were you on duty that night or working? And what was your reaction? What were your thoughts? You want me to

00:01:13.819 - 00:01:29.764

start? Sure. Ok. So I, my typical shift that night would have been from six in the morning until four in the afternoon. I had what we call an in early where we come in at 3 a.m. for an overtime shift. My typical, I would usually get

00:01:29.775 - 00:01:45.455

here about 2 45 in the morning. So I got, I get up about 1 45 in the morning and how I found out was when I woke up I smelled smoke and I thought that was kind of odd. So I just kept getting ready. I was

00:01:45.464 - 00:01:58.660

driving into work and one of the things that sticks out in my mind is I tried to listen to the radio and there was in a radio station on my, in my car and I was getting on, at highway 12 up on the overpass to get

00:01:58.669 - 00:02:16.250

on to 101 northbound. And when I looked up, I could see the whole sky was orange and I, at that moment I didn't know what had happened. Uh, I knew something was very wrong and then I got on the freeway and there was a car fully

00:02:16.259 - 00:02:34.899

engulfed in flames, uh, near between Coddingtown and the college exit between ST Lane and college. And in that moment I realized, ok, obviously there's a huge fire. Um, there was no traffic southbound. So it, in that moment I knew that whatever was happening was a disaster.

00:02:34.910 - 00:02:52.250

And I basically CHP had the freeway shut down. I had to pull onto the shoulder drive in and I had to show him my ID to get onto the bicentennial exit. And that's how I found out about it was on my way into work. And about

00:02:52.259 - 00:03:08.130

that time, it was probably about 2 20 in the morning. I was working, um I was actually here, I worked a graveyard shift that night. So my shift started around 7 p.m. I was in our, assigned to our central control position, which is basically like a

00:03:08.139 - 00:03:23.020

mini dispatch for the jail. And I have cameras for all locations throughout the jail and outside of the jail just around the facility. Uh So I learned about it when I pulled up, we also control our North county facility too. So I had the cameras pulled

00:03:23.029 - 00:03:36.990

up outside everywhere and I noticed that the trees, it was so windy and the trees were pretty much bent in half. So I kind of started listening. I tuned into our patrol dispatch to listen to what the radio was saying. And that's when I could start

00:03:37.000 - 00:03:51.929

hearing that they were dispatching, the fire was continuing to move towards town. Um So I learned about it and then command staff was calling us, contacting us asking and I pulled up the cameras and actually from one of our cameras, we can see the freeway right

00:03:51.940 - 00:04:06.975

out here from a steel lane. Um, and it was completely on fire. So that's pretty much how I learned about it. Is just uh listening to the radio and I was on shift and then using our cameras, we saw out at North County as well. Um

00:04:07.925 - 00:04:20.424

Did you guys feel or like when you were here that night, did you feel or did you guys feel like, oh my God, what if it comes this way? What are we gonna do? What were you guys thoughts on that? Did you guys feel prepared? So

00:04:20.475 - 00:04:39.209

to a certain extent, to a certain extent, I mean, we have, uh, policies and procedures in place for, uh, emergencies and in scenarios throughout the facility. Ok. And so we have those in place but in, in that moment, um, you know, when it was three o'clock

00:04:39.220 - 00:04:56.170

in the morning and repeat your question again, uh, uh, at any point during that night, did you feel like, oh my God, what if the fire approaches us? So it was so close because I got here on shift, it was probably 2 45 and it had,

00:04:56.179 - 00:05:11.734

I believe it had crossed the freeway already, but it was so smoky that you couldn't really tell where the exact fire was at that time. And when I got into the building, absolutely. There were moments, um, I don't remember the exact time frame because we were

00:05:11.744 - 00:05:32.750

very busy, um, where I remember looking out at the cameras and I thought that Kaiser was on fire, you couldn't really see. And there was a moment when I thought Ok. Um You know, the fire is right here. So, yeah, the, I guess the answer is,

00:05:32.760 - 00:05:50.695

yeah, were we prepared to a certain extent? Yes, we have protocols, procedures, evacuation stuff or, you know, situations like that. But, um, this, I think was a little more involved as where were we going to evacuate them because a lot of times we have plans to

00:05:50.704 - 00:06:09.410

evacuate them to our North county facility, but that wasn't an option. So we had to think outside the box and actually we contacted agencies from down South uh Alameda, a couple other agencies um to ask them for, for additional aid to help. And they were extremely

00:06:09.420 - 00:06:25.779

responsive, offered buses to, you know, set up here to ship back our incarcerated persons back on to their facility for the time being. Uh but it ultimately was a decision from our command staff and who they were on site during the time and trying to make

00:06:25.790 - 00:06:41.470

a determination where the fire was to what extent were we going to do? Because at the point at that time, I wanna say we had maybe about 900 inmate mates population to account for. So a lot of that was, you know, thinking about how we're gonna

00:06:41.480 - 00:06:57.989

do this and where we're gonna rehouse them because at that time, it just felt like we were surrounded by fire and it, um before our command staff got on shift, it was myself and another sergeant and uh sergeant Burroughs was in central and myself and my

00:06:58.000 - 00:07:14.000

partner sergeant to actually him and I met and we were, before our command staff got here, we contacted the city of Santa Rosa to try to get city of Santa Rosa buses like even school buses. But in, in a situation like that where you have that

00:07:14.010 - 00:07:31.644

type of a disaster, they will evacuate homeowners, the elderly um hospitals prior to them evacuating the jail. And because of the close proximity of the fire to the jail, it was really difficult for anybody to even get here. So before our command staff even got here,

00:07:31.654 - 00:07:45.174

my partner and I were working on, like she said, contacting the other agencies but also contacting the city of Santa Rosa trying to figure out if they could even get anybody to us to evacuate if, if the decision was made by our command staff to get

00:07:45.184 - 00:08:01.089

them out. And obviously there were no city buses, nothing available locally and then reaching out to the other agencies and they were available and wanting to help us at that point. Yeah. Ok. Um, well, the 900 I was thinking like maybe 200 or three, don't mark

00:08:01.100 - 00:08:16.149

my word on that. But yeah, did you guys have like, like in case you did have to evacuate? Like did you guys have like sufficient staff to like, like, I mean, I'm just curious how that works. I, I don't really know much about, yeah, we have

00:08:16.470 - 00:08:33.400

we have what's called a special emergency response team, specialized emergency response team. Um So that's like a team of at the time, maybe like 12 correctional deputies and sergeants. Um So they were here for extra security and then if we were going to have to, the

00:08:33.409 - 00:08:52.320

patrol deputies would assist as well. Yeah. Ok. And the other interesting that happened, thing that happened that early morning in the early morning hours was that staff that were not on duty that could get here were just showing up to work. And so we actually were

00:08:52.330 - 00:09:11.409

doubling up the correctional deputies in the jail. So they would have a partner. And so we did have plenty of staff if the decision was made to evacuate. Ok. Um Did any of the inmate just curious, did any of the inmates like ask like, oh, what's

00:09:11.419 - 00:09:25.570

going on out there? Absolutely. I think that was one of our biggest challenges because the entire facility was filled with smoke to the point where I couldn't really even see from our distance here, you know, 5 6 ft in front of me. It was very, it

00:09:25.580 - 00:09:42.109

was very smoky. Uh And obviously you can smell it. So that took a lot of work from our staff to, I mean, probably not the right terminology but quote unquote, put out fires with um the inmates and try to, you know, resolve some of their anxieties

00:09:42.119 - 00:09:56.460

because, yeah, I mean, they're already in a cell. Can't go anywhere we're locked down and now we have something else going on. So there was a lot of communication among staff, a lot of walking and talking and explaining, given play by play is what's going on.

00:09:56.469 - 00:10:12.299

Yeah, we were very transparent from the, when it got like around breakfast time. I mean, even before that, but we got together and made a plan for how we were going to communicate to the inmates. Like she said, we had people going into the housing modules,

00:10:12.309 - 00:10:27.130

we have P A systems and they were absolutely telling them, we were very transparent about what was happening in the community, telling them what was going on. And we continued that we would actually, we were printing bulletins uh that I think, I don't know if it

00:10:27.140 - 00:10:36.580

was once or twice a day that they, we would hand out to the deputies and they would, I don't know if we passed them out or yeah, we did, we would pass them out and just giving them an update of what's going on because I mean,

00:10:36.590 - 00:10:49.804

they have access to the newspaper and television and stuff, but only during certain times of the day and maybe not all the time. So we took, went to the extra measure and would print them each, you know, here's what's happening in the community. This is what's

00:10:49.815 - 00:11:04.315

going on. And initially we had no um we were on generators because we didn't have electricity. So the phones weren't working for, I think the first day or two. So we didn't have telephones so nobody could reach out the inmate or the incarcerated persons couldn't reach

00:11:04.325 - 00:11:28.559

out to call their families. So a lot of time and energy was spent after the initial response in communicating with the incarcerated persons in the jail. Um Can you tell me about the stress you experienced during this time? Could you describe like the thoughts, feelings, emotions

00:11:28.669 - 00:11:49.859

that you experience uh while being here? Um I think the stress was, was trying to figure out if we were going to pull the trigger and evacuate or if not and kind of what supporting factors we had to determine that. Um And also the stress of

00:11:49.869 - 00:12:09.544

trying to keep, you know, a population of like 900 or so calm in a situation where, yeah, we're not really quite calm or sure. Yeah. Um I think the biggest stress was um how and when and as far as like how we were going to do

00:12:09.554 - 00:12:20.010

it, we were aware of that, but we, you know, we had the resources and everything we knew what we were going to do, but how was this going to pan out? And when were we going to do it if we were going to? I think that

00:12:20.020 - 00:12:34.049

was probably one of the biggest stresses. Um And there was a lot of communication and things were changing because you know, the fire would, ok, here is coming in this direction and then all of a sudden it shifted. So now we, you know, two steps forward,

00:12:34.059 - 00:12:50.729

five steps back type of thing. Um So it was, you know, there was moving parts to it and it took us a while to ultimately figure out that we were gonna stay in place and not evacuate safely. And the stress for me was a little bit

00:12:50.739 - 00:13:14.719

different because my partner in the beginning, my partner sergeant to and I were in charge of our staff as well as the inmates. And for me personally, that's what you're asking about. The stress for me was um I was assigned that day to basically keep track

00:13:14.729 - 00:13:35.159

of our staff because we had many staff members that lost their homes. And for probably, I would say for lack of finding an exact time, maybe 10 hours, I was near a phone and taking phone calls with people that had lost their homes. They didn't know

00:13:35.169 - 00:13:51.140

what to do, they didn't know where to go. They didn't know they were just basically crying and calling into work. And then we also had staff members that were on duty that managed to get a hold of their family members. And I specifically remember this one

00:13:51.150 - 00:14:08.919

young deputy, I was in the custody sergeant's office and he came running into my office and he was crying and said my house is on fire. I gotta get to my family and he literally threw his keys and I had to make sure that my role

00:14:08.929 - 00:14:22.609

in that was to ensure that we knew that where they were going, you know, that we had their cell phone numbers, that we knew that they were gonna get to where they needed to be safely and keep in constant communication with them. So that first day

00:14:22.619 - 00:14:40.885

of the fire staff were coming in and out so quickly because of what I was just explaining. Um So seeing and hearing the stories right away of, of our coworkers, our partners, um because we had quite a few people, like I said, lose their homes. That

00:14:40.895 - 00:15:01.250

was difficult to, to see and hear the emotion part of it and trying to keep it together for this facility and the individuals in this facility. And, um, that was stressful for me personally. There was one point when I looked out and, you know, I thought

00:15:01.390 - 00:15:14.979

our parking lot was gonna burn up and it was weird. I thought about that my truck was gonna, um, and, you know, my family was safe. I knew they were safe. I would take, I tried to take a moment to call them to let them know

00:15:14.989 - 00:15:34.359

I was ok. So I didn't really have stress about my immediate family and I knew that was ok. It was just the staff for me, the, the evacuation part. Um, like she said, we had a plan, the stressor for me were more the effects that it

00:15:34.369 - 00:15:56.349

was I was seeing from my staff that was really difficult for me, but I can only imagine the stress. Um, uh, I don't think this question applies but I'll ask it anyway. Um, were you involved or in charge of the evacuation operations? Like, outside of this?

00:15:56.359 - 00:16:13.080

No. Right. You know. No. Ok. Ok. Um, how would you describe the person you were then? And the person you are now? So if you, like, if you thought of your life as like a book or like a chapter, I don't know, like, like before the

00:16:13.090 - 00:16:28.489

fires, I don't know, like, and then now, like, reflect, like, I guess, like, reflecting on the fires, like, as far as our professional lives, our professional lives. Yeah. I wouldn't say I have much of a difference other than, I mean, this is something that we are

00:16:28.500 - 00:16:41.953

faced with every single day. There's always something new, there's always a new challenge or something. We've never come across that we have to figure out what to do. This just was to an extreme and a natural throughout the county. Um, but I think there was a

00:16:41.963 - 00:16:59.502

lot of things that were learned that we did really well in and a lot of things that we could have done. Um, so I think just as far as my professional life moving forward, if there is another event, I'm a lot more prepared and have different

00:16:59.513 - 00:17:13.916

ideas of what to look out for, what to, you know, check off my list while going through it. But so I think, I mean, it's, we do this every single day and you know, something we're faced with something we learn, put it in your book and

00:17:13.926 - 00:17:37.239

you move forward. My answer is pretty much the same and I'll give an example when the Kincade fires happened. Two years later, it was, uh we were absolutely prepared for that and our, our lead up to the it happening. We, we were already putting things in

00:17:37.250 - 00:17:52.410

motion where with the tubs fire, we didn't have an opportunity to do that. So we're, it made us more prepared to deal with those type of things. And we learned so much like she said from the tubs fire that when the Kincade fire happened, it, it

00:17:52.420 - 00:18:08.109

was, it was a lot easier for us. That's thank you. That's what I was looking for. That's great. Um Who was the most helpful to you during this time? And how were they helpful? Like, was there somebody in particular that or like certain people that you

00:18:08.119 - 00:18:24.849

were like, oh my God, like they made this process so much easier or I'll answer that first and she's sitting right here. I, I went up to central control once I kind of figured out what's going on. And uh Sergeant Burroughs has a way of just

00:18:24.859 - 00:18:40.609

her demeanor and how she handles situations that, you know, at that time she was the deputy. I was a sergeant but she has a way of keeping people around her calm in situations like that. And I tend my personality is, is I can get amped up

00:18:40.619 - 00:18:56.675

and she has a way of keeping people calm and keeping things organized. And for me, that's why when you asked about this interview, she was the first person that popped into my head because when I think about that, she's like the first person I think about

00:18:56.685 - 00:19:12.979

because that's something that I held on to in those moments of just that of what we were going through is her calmness and, and how she handled the situation and how she reacted and thought things through were invaluable as a partner to me. She was my

00:19:12.989 - 00:19:33.420

partner. Ok. Well, thank you so sweet. Yeah, I love that. Which was true. We worked together very closely in a very vulnerable spot and we were, we were the overhead of everything. It's tough for me though. I think everybody, everybody here, you know, we have, this

00:19:33.430 - 00:19:49.484

is in our profession. You kind of have a tendency when you're in stressful situations that not majority of, you know, the public see or are involved with daily. There's a sense of like partnership and teamwork and you just come together and thrive off of each other.

00:19:49.494 - 00:20:10.709

And so I think it was everybody involved. Um I mean, I had patrol from across the street calling, checking in on us. So I think it was a mixture of everybody involved. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Um If you were to relive this disaster, would you do anything

00:20:10.719 - 00:20:24.170

differently? If so what would that be? I know that you guys mentioned that you were better prepared for the kin to fire. So if that kind of answers that question that we can just skip this one. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't really think there's like

00:20:24.180 - 00:20:38.989

an elaborate explanation of it that we just, we weren't, we never had encountered something like that. So we weren't prepared. I don't wanna say we weren't prepared. We weren't um we just have never dealt with it for the Kincade fire. We were, we were ok. Ok.

00:20:39.380 - 00:21:02.180

Um Is there a particular story that like stands out like during that night or like something that um I think there's multiple stories. Um and Leanna mentioned earlier, you know, keeping in contact with staff, a lot of our staff members know or when they, there's something

00:21:02.189 - 00:21:16.849

happening, they have a tendency to call our central control where we were. And so, you know, there was a lot of initial phone calls of I lost my house, not coming in hang up. So I think, you know, just, it was, it's kind of tough because

00:21:16.859 - 00:21:31.800

you're here, we are, we're trying to manage the facility and then everybody's calling in like she said, so she's taking notes of who's where, who's doing what? Um I think that stood out to me a lot too. Um And just, I mean, finally when the ultimate

00:21:31.810 - 00:21:46.890

decision was made and the fire was a little more controlled or going the opposite way. I think that alleviated a lot of pressure. And then we were able to like, check in with our staff. And for me and I kind of already mentioned, it was the

00:21:46.900 - 00:22:02.959

story that sticks out is how we came together as a team and how people were showing up when they weren't even assigned to be at work. They came and they, they helped and they wanted to be here and that's what sticks out to me as well

00:22:02.969 - 00:22:27.520

as just the team that we have and how we came together. Um, that's pretty much it. My last question is, um, can you tell, well, can you tell me about any strength that you have discovered, uh, through this experience? And, you know, I think, um, I

00:22:27.530 - 00:22:51.189

mean, we do a lot of preparation training, um, mandatory annually, quarterly trainings that prepare us for this kind of stuff. Um, so I think an overall strength is that we've been doing this and preparing for, you know, evacuations, disasters emergencies. That's part of our job. So,

00:22:51.489 - 00:23:09.005

um, I think that's always been a strength that we have and just going through this experience that I don't believe. I mean, she's been here for 29 years and she hasn't, you know, experienced it, but going back 29 years, she's been training for this type of

00:23:09.015 - 00:23:23.005

stuff. Um So I think that's a strength that we've had for a long time. Ok. Ok. Um and then um is there something else do you think I should know to better understand the challenges that you faced or is that pretty much it? That's my last

00:23:23.015 - 00:23:34.415

question or anything else that you guys wish to add on this interview? I don't have anything. I don't either. I think we pretty much covered it. Ok, perfect. Thank you guys. I'm gonna pause it.