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So, so pretty much this is the tubs fires that happened on October the 8th, 2017. my first question would be, did you notice anything like weird of the day, the night of that day or that anything came out of the ordinary? Because that's been the consensus

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of like previous interviews of everything was just weird and unusual. You mean prior to the fire? Yeah. Like the, in the morning of the eighth, since this happened around like midnight? Yeah. So I, interestingly enough, I was out of town. I was in Boston visiting my

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son and I got a phone call from my, from my, um, son who we were going to meet. No, actually, we were heading home, we were heading home on the eighth and we visited with my son in Boston and he called me and he said, have

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you heard what's going on in Sonoma County? And I said no, and he goes, there's a big fire and our friend Joey, his best friend from high school, his house burned and he's, he, they lost everything. And, um, so, of course, we were shaken, worried, um,

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and coming back to the bay area and we were flying into Santa Rosa and we couldn't fly in, obviously because the airport was closed. So we could see the flames from the air. And, um, there was, you know, there was still a lot of smoldering and

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things like that. And so we ended up landing in San Francisco. Our car was at the airport in, in, at Sonoma Airport, Sonoma County Airport and I think we couldn't get it for like a day or so because all the roads were closed. So, um what

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happened was uh that, you know, we got home and I think the very next day I got a phone call from a student of mine at Sonoma State who I was teaching in the sociology department at the time in addition to psych. And he said, um

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I am at the um fairgrounds in Santa Rosa. And uh they have a lot of evacuees from the fire here and there's no social workers. Can you come up? And so that very next day I went up to the fairgrounds and started volunteering with the um

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with the people that were evacuated. That's pretty cool to hear because we've learned that the fairgrounds was a big place where people could get essentially all the resources of to help figure out what's the next step. And when you volunteer yourself, what made you essentially do

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that or how did like, did you feel like you had to or it was like there was no second thought about it. Oh, not at all. I mean, he, he called and, you know, I was, he was in a class that I was teaching in sociology

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about social work. So, we've been talking about social work. I'm a career, social worker. That's what I do for a living. So, um, trying to help folks is just second nature to me. Um, and, yeah, I didn't, I didn't have a second thought at all. I

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just arrived at the fairgrounds and, and I was there, uh, I think at least a week and probably maybe 10 days where we were just trying to sort people and make sure that, you know, I did a lot of, um, just, uh, helping folks process what

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had happened because the stories were horrific. I mean, people, you know, running through the flames, there was one gentleman, uh, who told me this story about he was in a car with his family and they were stuck, there were flames on both sides of the car

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and there was a huge line of traffic and the, the cars weren't moving and he was scared that if they stayed in the car, they were going to get burned. So he took off his shirt, he had water in the car, doused his shirt with water,

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ripped it up and handed it to his kids and they all got out of the car and started running and they escaped, but they were at, they were at the shelter. So, hearing stories like that were horrific. Absolutely horrific. Oh, yeah. We've, uh, seen, like, interviews

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of, like, people that survived, read articles and it's, it's scary and pretty bad how it was. Um, well, you said that you were asses essentially in the Sonoma County. So you didn't have to evacuate or anything? No. But was your, like, was there a plan to

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maybe evacuate if it got worse or where were you located? So, we were, um, we were in Pen, we live in Pen. So we were pretty far from the fire. Yeah. Um, but my, um, you know, I knew, I also teach at Santa Rosa Junior College.

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So a lot of my students were affected and, um, my kids went to school in, in Santa Rosa at Cardinal Newman High School. So Cardinal Newman was affected. So I, I had a lot of ties to the community that was affected. And so this young man

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who, um, whose house burned, he and his mom came and lived with us for three months while they were displaced. So, you know, we, in addition to doing the work at the fairgrounds, we actually had a, a survivor's family, live with us. That's pretty cool to

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hear. Um, you teaching here, do you feel like the school did a good job at kind of informing students or having like a good plan of how to deal with the fire or like, do you think they could have done anything a little different or how

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did you see the school handle the situation? Well, it, that was weird because we were off for a while. Right. They, they sort of shut school down for at least a week and I think it was probably two weeks. The smoke was really bad in the

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air. Um, I do think, you know, a lot of the schools have emergency services so they have food pantries and such. So there was that available. But I, but I know the students even with the resources that were in the community and I don't know specifically

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about the resources at Sonoma State. But I know, you know, my students were severely traumatized, particularly my Santa Rosa students because they were really many of them were affected very directly. And, you know, I had class, I had students in my class who lost everything who

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um you know, were living, you know, did they didn't have enough uh um family support to even have anywhere to go. So they were living in their car, they were in hotels, they, you know, it was, it was, it was almost like there was so much

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need that even though there were systems in place, it wasn't enough because it was just, it was just the mag magnitude of it was so big. Ok. Um I do think there was a lot of um compassion and kind of people being um really understanding. Right.

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So, you know, I know I did and I know lots of other faculty extended deadlines and people had lost their computers and they lost their work and they lost their books. And so there were all sorts of ways in which people were trying to kind of

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call together resources to help those folks who are struggling. Yeah. Um, it was a time where everybody kind of realized that, oh, maybe I do need to have my neighbors back and my neighbor will have my back essentially like trauma losing everything, you know, the um

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at the fairgrounds. What was really remarkable, at least I was really touched by, it was the numbers of people that were showing up with clothing and food and toys for the Children and blankets and, you know, there were lots of, lots of restaurant tours that came

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and cooked. And so there was a big outpouring of community support and that was really great. Uh um How like did you deal with like your stress of being like a volunteer or maybe not like, not like your stress and then helping like your students out

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and being like a support system for them? Like how has that affected you kind of long term, short term, you know, a at the time, particularly with the students and the families that were really traumatized, you know, that's hard, that's hard to witness. Um Fortunately my

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training as a social worker and as a therapist has really helped me, uh, over the course of my career when I do have students that are in trouble and I've had a lot of them over the years that have had different things happen to them and

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been through traumatic. I mean, that was only one fire. We've had plenty of fire since then. Right. We had fires almost every year there for a while. Um, so it, uh, sadly has become something that is kind of been sort of normal, um, particularly when we

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were in those years of drought. Um, but, you know, I think, I do think that historically, not just from the tubs fire, but, you know, the subsequent fires, the situations that are going on in terms of, um, you know, the gun, um, control issues and the

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mass shootings and the environmental issues. I just think there's been a lot of trauma in a short amount of time. And so it's hard to say that it's one thing or another, but I think the cumulative experience of all these traumas has really done a lot

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of damage to the mental health of our student body and I can see it, I can see it in my students. They come and talk to me about stuff. It's funny. Last week I had students come up to me after class and they just wanted to

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hang out and talk like it wasn't, they didn't have any questions about the material. It was just Hey, I just, I just feel like I need to connect. Right. And so I think between, you know, COVID and the fires and all the stuff that we've has

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gone on in the last five years or so, it's been a really tough time. And so I think that, that we are seeing, um, real serious consequences of all of that. The cumulative trauma has really been hard for folks and I don't think we're giving it

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enough attention, you know. Yeah, I think so too, especially like for students that, like, they're kind of dealing with the being an adult situation and then at the same time being a student essentially not knowing what exactly to do in certain situations, especially living like away

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from family and you're stuck here. Like, what do I do essentially? And I, and I do think a lot of, a lot of what you're talking about is those are normal, right? That's the adapt, you know, adapting to going away to college and living on your

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own and being in a different place. Those are all predictable and, and they're already gonna be hard. And then on top of that, we've got all this other contextual trauma which is really makes life so much harder and yeah. Um how like did this fire or

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being in this situation kind of affect? Like you're teaching long term, short term, did you find more compassion toward students or did you like, how would it affect. Yeah, that's a good question. You know, I think, I think, um, it, you know, it reminded me that

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while folks are going to school they're still living life. Right. Those things happen simultaneously. So I was much more, I think, tuned in, I mean, I think I'm a fairly compassionate teacher but I think, you know, you, when you have people that are in, in trauma,

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in that experience, you have to be more compassionate, more accepting, more understanding. And you know, we um I think we need often need to be reminded that even though people are showing up in the classroom and they, they may not be telling you that there are

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problems, they're still living a life and they're still go things that are going on that are affecting them. And so, you know, I think just being aware of that being mindful of that and trying to, I said to my students come talk to me, right? If,

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if some you need extra time, if you need an ear, just come talk to me, I'll help help you as best I can. So I do think that that was just a reminder. Um have you like after this fire kind of made like an evacuation plan

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or are you kind of like uh I'm awake maybe till like it's in my back door essentially or how do you feel like this fire has like, I guess you like a safety plan or something like that. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because I don't remember what

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year it was but there was a fire that was burning near my house and we had to evacuate. And so I actually have gone through that process of what are you gonna take? And I remember thinking how strange that was to think about, you know, what

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would you save? And so it helped me, I think, remind me that things are just things and there are certain things that are important that can't be, maybe can't be replaced at the time the tubs fire happened. I was writing a book. Uh, so I wanted

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to make sure my computer with my book on it, got out of the house. Uh, because that was a lot of work. Um, you know, and then you have, you have, you have like, you know, um, social security cards and passports and things like that, that

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you wanna make sure you save but the rest of it, you know, it's, you have to figure out what really matters. So there's that right. Yeah, I had another interview where, uh, the professor, like she has done research so long that she put that in the

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back of her trunk and then she remembered that maybe this is not the most important thing to put in my trunk or to bring it like it down all the time that there's something that's going to happen. It's just, it's, it kind of a reminder of

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what's important essentially. Absolutely. You pretty much you're gonna carry a suitcase around and see what you could fit in the suitcase that is gonna help you in the long term and is important to you essentially. Um, I think that's pretty much what I have. I don't

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know if you want to add anything else or. Well, I think the one thing, the one thing that I think, because I had the opportunity, you know, I had colleagues that lost their homes, uh families that I know that I lost their homes. And I think

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I got to sort of bear witness to the long road to recovery from that. Right. That was one of the things that I was sort of shocking to me was the family that lived with us as, as was also true of some of my colleagues who

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lost their homes. They were traumatized for a long time. You could see it right. There was this, there was this way in which they, uh it was almost like they couldn't, you know, they all the things you would expect, right? They had trouble sleeping. You know,

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this one young man that was living with us, we have a fire pit in our backyard, right? And we love to sit by the fire, right? And enjoy uh you know, make roast marshmallows or just talk and, and the fire was triggering to him. Of course,

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it was triggering to him. Right. But just there was just that awareness of, yeah, this experience is affecting our friends and neighbors and it's gonna be affecting them for a very long time. Thankfully that family was able to get a new home and has moved and

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has begun to kind of put their lives back together but took a really long time. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think that's how I have to.