00:00:00.009 - 00:00:17.920

14. Ok. So please note the following about this interview, talking about the fires is a stressful thing to do if you would like to pause at any point. That is perfectly fine. If you feel like you cannot go forward with the interview, that is fine too.

00:00:18.069 - 00:00:35.779

Your participation is entirely voluntary and can be rescinded at any point in this process. Since this is an oral history or life history project, your interview recording will treat as a public testimony about the fire. This means that your name will not be kept confidential. Is

00:00:35.790 - 00:00:53.069

that besides being archived, the results of this research will be presented at a small mini conference at Sonoma State on May 2nd. If you are interested in attending this conference, please contact Doctor Smith at the above address and you will see the address on the form

00:00:53.080 - 00:01:17.800

too. Ok. All right. Well, I am grateful for your decision, this participation um for this research and I will get started with question one. Have you ever experienced a traumatic natural disaster event before the 2017 tubs fires? No. Um Has there been any incident that had

00:01:17.809 - 00:01:38.769

led you to have some form of experience to prepare you for the tub fires. Um Well, I'm old enough to have been alive through the 89 quakes, um, or the, the Loma Prieta quake. So, but where I lived at the time was well outside the Bay

00:01:38.779 - 00:01:59.440

area. So we felt it, but we didn't have the damage that the Bay area took. Um, and living in California probably floods. Right when I, when I was a kid we had floods that flooded our neighborhood once. Um once or twice maybe, but that was really

00:01:59.449 - 00:02:19.149

kind of it. So, um Oh, sorry, let me, let me say that. Sadly, the year before the fire, we were actually camping and the place we were camping at um uh a wildfire broke out and so we actually had to evacuate during the day um to

00:02:19.160 - 00:02:33.279

leave that. So we did that the year before the fires, we had to leave the campground because they were shutting down the highway from the direction it was coming. So everybody needed to pack up and leave and head out. So, so we did do that the

00:02:33.289 - 00:02:54.990

year before. Oh, so you had a fire evacuation at a campground prior to even having an experience to fires. So did that prepare you in any way for the tough fires? No, not at all. No. Um Where were you living when the disaster occurred in Coffee

00:02:55.000 - 00:03:13.759

Park? In Santa Rosa? Mm I know it was pretty close near Coffee Park. The fires. Did you suffer any losses during the wildfires? Uh, total the entire house, everything gone. Sorry about that. Thank you. Um Was it difficult for you to stay in contact with family

00:03:13.770 - 00:03:33.750

members during this time? Um, actually no fam family was what came together for us. So we, um, my wife's side of the family has family here locally, so we were able to get together with them and then my family is out of the area, but I

00:03:33.759 - 00:03:50.479

was able to get in touch with them and it was actually family that we stayed with for the first week until we could find a place to come back here and, and live in. So it is always nice to have family nearby, especially if anything uncertain

00:03:50.490 - 00:04:10.660

happens. Um Do you recall how you found out about the fire on the night of October 8th? Yeah, actually, um, obviously for us, it was about one in the morning on I think then on the ninth. Um, uh, my wife actually woke me up, but prior

00:04:10.669 - 00:04:27.949

to that, our daughter had woke her up saying she had difficulty breathing. And, um, so my wife was trying to get her settled back in our room to go back to sleep and then had gone downstairs and realized like looking out um, one of our windows

00:04:27.959 - 00:04:43.149

that there was just this red horizon. And so she ended up coming back upstairs waking me up and said, hey, I need you to come down here. So uh I go downstairs, I see what she sees through the window and we start looking at it and

00:04:43.160 - 00:05:01.790

she's like, hey, at, at that time she's like, hey, there's evacuation orders for the Bar Mark West. Um So she's like, I think we should go and I remember going up and looking at my, looking out my daughter's window for her bedroom and uh, like I

00:05:01.799 - 00:05:19.940

said, all I could see was just red across from beyond our houses and some uh and 101 was just this red horizon. So it was like, oh yeah, we gotta go. Um So, um basically we tried to collect the kids and the dog and some items

00:05:19.950 - 00:05:33.980

as fast as we could and, and about 10 minutes, we jumped in the cars and at that time, we had, we had just finished a weekend of camping. So our trailer was out front of our house and the plan was for me to try to hook

00:05:33.989 - 00:05:48.380

it up and take it with us. And by the time we were leaving, I made sure my wife got the kids and the dog in the car and started to go and then I was gonna try to hook up the trailer and my neighbor's houses were

00:05:49.059 - 00:06:05.070

uh it engulfed at that point and very large tree limbs and stuff like that were falling into our court. So, on fire. So I was like, if I do this, I'm probably not getting out. So I needed to get out. And at that point, so definitely

00:06:05.079 - 00:06:28.470

all of your first instinct on that. Um What were your responsibilities during the clubs, fires if you had any? Um, thankfully as, as far as my career and job goes, thankfully, the, the office was great and I didn't have it once I backed my family and

00:06:28.480 - 00:06:44.589

we got, we got away, got somewhere safe for the night. Um, obviously that next day, right, that whole Monday was everybody just trying to figure out what was going on. Um, but I'd called work, I knew by the afternoon that, um, likely that our house wasn't

00:06:44.600 - 00:06:59.010

there. And, um, so I called work and they were, the office was great. They were like, take whatever time you need, tell us what you need. Um And so I was actually off work. So I didn't actually have any work responsibilities for that week other than

00:06:59.019 - 00:07:14.859

to try to take care of my family and find a new place to live. I'm glad that they have that in place for y'all to decompress after experiencing such a traumatic event. And then actually having y'all go straight back into work. Um, and that's what also

00:07:14.869 - 00:07:34.179

kind of helped with having other counties coming in also for first responders coming down because a lot of the people that were down there, you know, suffered losses. And can you tell me more about the stress you experienced during the fires um, just more about your

00:07:34.190 - 00:07:53.959

thoughts, your feelings and emotions that we're going through. Um, yeah, it's probably at the time of it's kind of hard, I think working in, working in the law enforcement industry who oftentimes are expected to respond to emergencies. Right. I mean, that's what we do. So, I

00:07:53.970 - 00:08:08.329

honestly think at the time of it it became autopilot. I was just doing what I, you know, thought I needed to do to get, um, you know, our vehicles ready to get the family together, get them out of the door and leave. So that really, I

00:08:08.339 - 00:08:22.869

don't remember a whole lot of feelings and emotions at the time, it was just an autopilot, like make sure everybody's safe, get everybody out, get away from the the area. And, you know, and then once we, but then once we got away and we got somewhere

00:08:22.880 - 00:08:40.549

safe that we could figure out and I'd honestly say it was probably not until day two or three because, um, we initially went to Rona Park to friends' houses and then as that morning unfolded later, then parts of Rona Park were being evacuated and where we

00:08:40.559 - 00:08:54.830

were at, we had that or, or recommended. And so we moved again um to another section of Rona Park and then from there down to Petaluma. Um And then finally, we had made the decision by the end of the day to try to go over to

00:08:54.840 - 00:09:11.020

our family uh out of the county and another county. So, um, so that day was kind of long and feeling wise, probably lost a little bit at first trying to figure out what we needed. Right. Moments of moments of clarity, I can remember thinking at some

00:09:11.030 - 00:09:27.030

point my wife and I talking and realizing like, hey, we have absolutely nothing. Right? And at some point with little kids, we're gonna have to find, you know, some food, we're gonna have to get some very basics like toothbrush and toothpaste, right? And you know, some

00:09:27.039 - 00:09:42.830

some things for them uh more so like what are we gonna do for sleeping? And we don't have anything. So that was probably, I don't know, ear early afternoon on that day where we ended up going into, you know, Target, I think and Petaluma a safeway

00:09:42.840 - 00:09:58.030

or something and just kind of walking the aisles going like, what do we need to grab right now? Right. What, what are the very basics we need? So um kind of doing that and um then yeah, when I finally got to my families, I kind of

00:09:58.039 - 00:10:11.770

think maybe that was a letdown right again. You know, you had mentioned family being important, right? And that was it when I got there. I was finally like, OK, we got the kids to bed and I remember setting to think like, holy crap what just happened,

00:10:11.780 - 00:10:25.669

right. You know, I mean what? And it was still going right. They were still trying to get it under control over here, but we were away at that point and just kind of like, ok, now what, now what do you do? Right. Um, and then overwhelmed

00:10:25.679 - 00:10:37.799

at first, right, because you start thinking about, um, well, if you never have, you definitely in that moment, you start thinking about all the things you need to do everything you've lost. What do you need to replace? Who do you need to call? Right. You still

00:10:37.809 - 00:10:57.960

have um people um bills to pay, right? Um companies to, to notify your, you know, I mean, we think of, you know, our lives are in a little computer that we hold right as we go around every day. So to um to figure out like you

00:10:57.969 - 00:11:10.760

need to replace those things, you know what I mean? So, um yeah, I would say overwhelmed at first, I mean, literally we grabbed a notebook and we just started writing down all the things we could think of that we were gonna have to do. And so,

00:11:11.630 - 00:11:23.679

so I think that was kind of a big one and then, you know, trying to remember and be there for my wife and the kids and what you're doing, right? And family. And so I think that was it uh grief at some point, right? But I

00:11:23.690 - 00:11:35.000

don't think that for me hit for until probably till a couple weeks later because I was very focused on what we do not know. How, who do have to contact, how do I get a place to live for my family? You know what I mean? So

00:11:35.010 - 00:11:49.000

I think mine came, my let down came probably a couple weeks later I was already back to work. Um, you know, had been working trying to figure it out and then it was once we got a place and I can kind of somewhat settle back into

00:11:49.010 - 00:12:05.179

a normal routine. Then I, then I remember just the sadness and that kind of stuff. So, well, when you had went into work and you said the realization of what had just happened didn't hit until like maybe weeks later once you got back into work, was

00:12:05.190 - 00:12:23.799

there anything in place to, you know, kind of support you at all with um your loss and what your family was experiencing and possibly mental health. Like, was there any support given? Yeah. Um The, I don't know if I'm gonna remember every detail with it, but

00:12:23.809 - 00:12:44.669

the county Sonoma County itself clearly had many employees that have lost homes, right? So they started putting together, um remember stuff with them, they started putting together um people that you could speak with, right? Trying to give you um uh information with a lot of it,

00:12:44.679 - 00:12:55.349

right? Trying to locations you can go to try to find things how you could get things back, right. But the county did that as a whole for the community as well, right? They were trying to come up with those centers where you could go all at

00:12:55.359 - 00:13:12.880

once and replace all those vital records you needed. Right. And locations for people to find, um, items to replace and stuff like that. Um, so there was a lot of that and I know for about at least a year afterwards, they kept offering, um, lunches basically

00:13:12.890 - 00:13:25.460

at the county level for everyone that had lost in the fire. They were doing lunches where you could go listen and they were talking a topic or they were offering mental health available to talk to. So they did that and then the sheriff's office itself, um,

00:13:25.989 - 00:13:42.890

really was like a second family. They, they reached out and helped, um, the Deputy Sheriffs Association, uh, rented a place and opened up a store, so to speak or whatever. They just started getting donated items from probably others all around, you know, other counties, other things

00:13:42.900 - 00:13:56.700

bringing it around and they made that available for, um, you know, all of us in law enforcement have lost something to go and find things and replace stuff. And so I remember going there with my wife and trying to figure out what do I need and

00:13:56.710 - 00:14:08.760

it was everything, right. And so to have, have guys that I worked with at the time actually walk through with me. Right, because they just found an office space and they found all these items that were being donated and they put them all in there. And

00:14:08.770 - 00:14:22.450

so walking around, you know, like you said, all the basic things that you needed and some clothes and all that and they were like, what do you need? And I'm like everything. So to have some, you know, some have some coworkers go with me and take

00:14:22.460 - 00:14:32.979

me around and be like, let's grab you some of this, let's get some of this and what are the kids need? Right. And one of the wives came over and I know my wife loved, it came over and actually walked with her and said, hey, we're

00:14:32.989 - 00:14:43.070

about the same size, let's say let me help you find some clothes, right? I've donated some, let's get some of that and just trying to help us get some of the basics and figure out what we need. And you know, and then shortly after that we

00:14:43.080 - 00:14:56.260

got, I got back to work and at work, it was just definitely helpful here, right? They needed it, what you need if you need the time off to go do something. Um you know, trying to figure out um I can remember uh when they first talked

00:14:56.270 - 00:15:06.150

about how we were going to clean up our lots after the fire, right? It was, it was a work day and I was like, hey, I need to get off early enough so I can go listen to this meeting and figure out and so things like

00:15:06.159 - 00:15:22.799

that they were like, yes, we'll figure it out for you. So definitely things that they could, right? And you know, our our employee organization groups helped out and there was money donated to all of us from the office that experienced a loss, they had money for

00:15:22.809 - 00:15:41.619

us and um resources are available on all that. So it was definitely, definitely a huge coming together and helping us out with stuff like that. So, you know what I will say after, I mean, I've experienced the um Santa Rosa tubs virus as well living in

00:15:41.630 - 00:16:02.135

Santa Rosa. But hearing other people's story, it just, it just constantly reaffirms the importance of having a community in a tight knit community and especially when natural disasters or any incident occurs. That's unforeseen and how you, everybody can just band together as a family need to

00:16:02.145 - 00:16:15.695

look after each other and support and give out resources. I just, I don't know, just you just hearing you say that just really warms my heart. Yeah. And, and I didn't work the streets, right? Those guys that worked the streets had a whole different experience. But

00:16:16.075 - 00:16:30.315

um but no, we we did the same too, right. We had, after we kind of got ourselves on our feet a little bit, we thought it was important to make sure our kids understood right? That it wasn't just us and that it was others. So we

00:16:30.325 - 00:16:44.179

um um I actually took them back to, I forgot what we called it, but I think it was something like the, you know, the fire recovery store or something that the deputy sheriffs were running and doing all that. And so we took them back to volunteer

00:16:44.190 - 00:16:56.169

there and do some hours of just being there to help people that were still coming and looking and stuff because we want to make sure that they understood that it wasn't even though we got all of this resources and this help and this love that there

00:16:56.179 - 00:17:07.880

were still others out there struggling to do it. So I know we turn, we want to turn that into something good and make them understand that. Right. They're not the only ones, right? And even even though they were little and they experienced that we wanted them

00:17:07.890 - 00:17:27.010

to understand that there were others like them that were also going through it. So, but yeah, no, it was very good. So that's great. Hey, at any point during the tough fires, were you involved in the evacuation operations or in charge of the evacuation operations? Not

00:17:27.020 - 00:17:56.010

from the work perspective. I wasn't. Oh, ok. Ok. Um How would you describe the person you were then in comparison to the person you are now? Oh, that's a great question. Um um Well, I think probably one of the biggest things um because, you know, we

00:17:56.020 - 00:18:10.560

were able to rebuild. So we, I feel very blessed for sure. Right. And it, I would say the biggest change was it made me take a look at the priorities, right? What, what is important? And I can definitely say that like after it was over, I'm

00:18:10.569 - 00:18:25.479

losing everything because for me personally, I literally had clothes on my back. Right. I mean, I had my family, I had my dog, um you know, I, in, in our situation, my wife was able to gather some uh clothes and my daughter helped get some clothes

00:18:25.489 - 00:18:38.964

and stuff for them and, and for her and, and our kids and stuff, she had a bag of clothes for me too. But in our evacuating out at some point, we lost the lights and trying to get the kids outside and all that, she ended up

00:18:38.974 - 00:18:51.839

dropping the bag that she had. The clothes were my clothes in it. So um so literally, I, I just had the clothes on my back when, when we left. So, but that in itself like I said, don't get me wrong. We were still blessed so many

00:18:51.849 - 00:19:08.530

things, so many people coming and helping, but it definitely changed me in the sense when you think about that um stuff doesn't mean a whole lot to me anymore, right? As we started replacing clothes and getting items and getting things back, it would, I, I really

00:19:08.540 - 00:19:25.250

became very choosy about what was important. What wasn't right? Did this matter a lot? Um And I think I really kind of noticed it fast forward two years when we had the concave fire and we had to, um, actually Kincade I think was Windsor area. Right.

00:19:25.260 - 00:19:37.469

So some folks did, we were, we were on alert but we didn't have to e back for that. I think we e back for glass again. So we were home for about a year and then we backed for the glass fire. We had to evacuate again.

00:19:37.819 - 00:19:49.640

So my family had to go and live with that, with our family that we stayed with. The first one, they went and lived there a week and on that one, I actually came back and worked because they were safe. So I came back and worked through

00:19:49.650 - 00:20:02.140

that. Um But to go that through again, right, you've already had it once where you build your house, you come home and then have to take your family up and go do that again. Um And not know if it was gonna be there afterwards. Right? So,

00:20:02.459 - 00:20:20.339

um things definitely are not important, right? People are important. Relationships are important. Um So things really for me, don't. Right. I, I very choosy about what items are sentimental anymore. And oftentimes things just aren't because it's not like I've had something that I had for a

00:20:20.349 - 00:20:36.010

long time that I attached to. Right. Although those things are gone. So, so people in relationships, I think, but, but yeah, I look at that um totally different like, like when, when we went to, I literally grabbed, I think two pairs of pants and three shirts.

00:20:36.020 - 00:20:49.750

And I remember my wife basically saying you don't want more than that. And I'm like, why I replaced it all the first time. We lost it. So, you know, it was, it was definitely like a material things just they don't have the same meaning anymore. So,

00:20:51.189 - 00:21:17.550

understandable. Like you said, yourself, your, your body, your family and the relationships that you have around, you are more important than material. You think that can be replaced the next day? Yes. Um How are you managing or coping from this experience today? Um I'd say, ok,

00:21:17.560 - 00:21:32.859

um we did seek out, you know, as a family for a little bit, we did some professional help. Um So, uh I think, uh hopefully that was helpful to start with. Um we needed to do uh a little bit more for, with one of my kids

00:21:32.869 - 00:21:51.869

because um uh they were, they were struggling longer with the concern about it coming back and happening again and all that. So we had to do uh a couple rounds of professional help and stuff. But, uh you know, for, for them, I unfortunately think as much

00:21:51.880 - 00:22:09.089

as my littlest one was small that they didn't think would remember. I, I think they will, unfortunately, I think they always will. They'll always be um concerned about it and I definitely can see it in who their personalities are shaping up to be the, you know,

00:22:09.099 - 00:22:28.069

that they're cautious in that sense, anxious, a little bit. Um, for me, I kind of feel like having, having this job where we respond to emergencies regularly, um, healthy or not. I, I think I was able to, as I said before. Right. It was a couple

00:22:28.079 - 00:22:40.660

of weeks before I let down. So I think I'm able to put it in a box and shut the box for a while until it comes up. Um, and so when it comes up, I now, you know, now that we're away from it, I try to

00:22:40.670 - 00:22:52.239

at least acknowledge it and figure out do I need to do something? Do I need to just feel the emotions instead of stuffing it? But I think at the time, I put a lot of it in the box and tried to leave it there just because

00:22:52.250 - 00:23:03.319

I needed to get, you know, try to get my family taken care of, try to get, you know, figure out do it with work to figure out a home, right? And then we went into the rebuilding of the home and, you know, figuring out all of

00:23:03.329 - 00:23:15.270

that. So for a couple of years, it was just leave it in the box because you got all this other stuff to do. Um And I think I definitely noticed it like when we evac again, here we are, right? So I think I've had my moments

00:23:15.280 - 00:23:31.500

of um breakdown, so to speak, where it's just overcome with emotion and tough to deal with. Um Fortunately, I figure I, I had the chance to do that on my own time and I didn't in a spot where it affected me doing it. I didn't have

00:23:31.510 - 00:23:48.250

to take any time off work. Um, so again, I, I feel pretty blessed. Um, I probably say I haven't completely dealt with it when it comes up. I definitely, you know, probably have some triggers. My family has some triggers. I know certain warm windy nights, nobody

00:23:48.260 - 00:24:06.689

sleeps. Well, that kind of thing. So, um but yeah, I think I, I think I try to focus on making life as good for my kids as we possibly could at the time. So I put my effort into that instead of worrying about, you know, how,

00:24:06.699 - 00:24:18.619

how I felt. And I personally had a real strong opinion and I know I told my wife right away like I don't wanna be, I don't want to be a victim in this, right? I wanna be a survivor in it. So I took that minute or

00:24:18.630 - 00:24:30.550

I think we both did, took that mentality on very early and it was like, no, we're, we're not, we're survivors of this, we're not victims of it, right? We want to make sure and show the kids that, you know, horrible things can happen to you. But

00:24:30.560 - 00:24:48.569

you, you can figure out how to cope with it and you can still move forward and, and have a good life. So I think that I kept that theory through most of it. So I appreciate that. Can you tell me about any strengths that you have

00:24:48.579 - 00:25:14.020

discovered through this experience? Any, what, any strength? Oh. Yeah, on a personal level, I would think that um like, I feel like my wife and I's relationship was good because they say buying a house, you know, is one of the most difficult things you could do

00:25:14.030 - 00:25:30.979

in your life. Um But I would say losing one in a natural disaster and then having to go through the process of rebuilding one together uh is like 10 times worse than that. So, um but yeah, I, I think that was probably it, right. We again

00:25:30.989 - 00:25:43.939

taking that theory of, hey, we're not, we're gonna be survivors of this and we're gonna work together and we can get through this and then wanting to really stress that and show that to our Children and move forward. I think it drew us closer because we,

00:25:43.949 - 00:25:57.199

we always came back to that when we were having difficulties, whether it was individually or together, we were trying to figure out what, you know, what we're gonna do and how we're gonna go on it. So I think that really strengthened us. Um And I think

00:25:57.209 - 00:26:09.290

as in both as a couple and as individuals, you know, I think it made us and, and of course, everything I learned with that I definitely would try to help others. Right. Well, you know, I had a bunch of peers that I worked with, um, and

00:26:09.300 - 00:26:20.489

coworkers who were in the same boat. Right. I have a, I have a neighbor close by a couple of neighbors that work with me. So, and they were in the exact same thing. So we would talk at work. Right. And it was nice to have people

00:26:20.729 - 00:26:33.790

going through the same thing to be able to say, hey, how are you guys doing on that? What are you, what are you doing? Right. Not just problem solving for general things, but to check in with, right? And um to be able to say, hey, that's,

00:26:33.800 - 00:27:01.510

you know, how are you doing and hear that and understand what they were going through. So see, is there something or is there anything else I should know to better understand the challenges you faced? Um I thinking in mind um I was, I was just talking,

00:27:01.520 - 00:27:17.280

I know you talked with Jamie. So we were talking after you spoke with her. And so one of the things that I remember saying to her we talked about was um and maybe this is more general for anyone going through a natural disaster, right? Peop people

00:27:17.290 - 00:27:30.630

mean well, too, but something I remember that those of us that had been through, it always talked about was people kind of either trying to make themselves feel comfortable or trying to make you feel better with talk about. Well, at least you get a new house.

00:27:30.640 - 00:27:43.030

Out of it. Right. Or at least you have this, um, you know, well, you got a, you got a new house now, right. They're trying to come up with a way and they kind of find, trying to find the positive for you. Right. Um, but I,

00:27:43.060 - 00:27:55.390

I know I told many of people when they were doing it, it's like, I'll, I'll take the old house and all the things and then, and then not have the experience any day over having it. Yes, I do have a new house and it's beautiful and

00:27:55.520 - 00:28:12.449

it's, you know, it, it, it's nice but I, I'll take, not doing any of that, you know, to have to go through any of that. And I wouldn't wish that upon somebody that I didn't like. You know what I mean? That was horrible. So, um, so

00:28:12.459 - 00:28:22.969

I, I guess it would be that right is to remember that as people do this and if you're studying this, right, as you go through it, people doing that just open ear and listen to what they have to say. Right. And maybe not try to make

00:28:22.979 - 00:28:36.979

them feel better or try to compare because if you haven't been through it you wouldn't know. Right. I don't think that I would try to do, you know, AAA victim or a survivor of a, of a heinous crime or something. Right. I wouldn't try to relate

00:28:36.989 - 00:28:53.369

if I've never been there. Right. So, just listen to what they have to say and, and potentially be there. Right? And maybe if they want to talk, just be there. So. Well, that's the best thing people can do most of the time is just listen, just

00:28:53.380 - 00:29:13.819

take it in and listen. Sometimes people don't even need your input or opinion trying to make things better, um, wherever intentions might be though. Um Well, thank you for this interview. That was our last question. Um I'm going to stop the recording. Right.