00:00:00.870 - 00:00:34.380

the four consolidation. So you're kind of like a hybrid. That's great. That's wonderful. If you move around too much remembering, I'm not a professional photographer. Okay. But you don't have to be still close off this minute. Good morning, I'm not here. Okay. Okay. It was here

00:00:34.380 - 00:00:49.740

for nine hours last week with Jack and a bunch of people, real emotional cases. That guy that chased the people in the golf course takes the guy to the golf course. I was on the wrong side of that. The Gulf had the guy in the car,

00:00:49.750 - 00:01:13.550

you know, liquid coverage, $100,000 policies. He was worth two or three million case. Okay. Did a good job. We are here with judge William Bendinelli. Uh, so it would be good if you could just start by talking about what background where you're born growing up? Okay,

00:01:13.560 - 00:01:34.860

well I was Born in West Marin County and uh in the Tamales area and uh, when I was about six years old moved to, to Petaluma to a ranch and south of Petaluma and lived there have lived there all my life. I've been within 16 miles

00:01:34.860 - 00:01:58.210

of where I was born for 60, almost 69 years now. So I have not uh ventured far from the original roots uh of myself and my family, just a farm family and agricultural family, a dairy family and have stayed close to that for my whole life.

00:01:58.220 - 00:02:26.320

So how did you end up getting into the law? Um, Well I was an agriculture major at Fresno State, uh, dairy science major and It rained one morning and because of that I became a lawyer basically. Um every year Fresno state played then University of Pacific

00:02:26.320 - 00:02:45.700

and football at Stockton. And when the games were in Stockton most of the school would take a train to Stockton for the purpose of the game. And I was living in a fraternity house and came the day of the U. O. P. Game and got up

00:02:45.700 - 00:03:03.470

in the morning and it was just raining terribly. And so everybody was getting ready to go to Stockton to the football game. And I looked out and I said listen I'm not gonna get on that train, get drunk, sit in the stadium all day right back

00:03:03.470 - 00:03:19.390

wet and cold you guys leave. So the attorney house left and I was there by myself in the attorney house and probably later in the morning 10 or 10 30 it stopped raining and the sun came out and I took a walk onto the campus just

00:03:19.390 - 00:03:35.100

to do something and I walked past the gym at Fresno and they were giving the law school S. A. T. S. That day and I had nothing to do for the afternoon. So I went in, signed up, took the S. A. T. Uh did well and

00:03:35.100 - 00:03:58.320

then I had to figure out what to do with the with the score that I got and you know at about the same time There I was losing a lot of friends to the draft that was 60 five probably and law school was a three year

00:03:58.320 - 00:04:18.790

program and so I am decided at least to apply. I had never heard of law school or law schools. The only law school I ever knew anything about was university of California somewhere I had heard the name, bolt hall. So I applied to bolt hall, the

00:04:18.790 - 00:04:40.340

only school that I applied to for law school and was admitted and accepted to bolt for the class of 66 that's, I mean it's pure fortuitous luck, um, ignorance, whatever it might have been, got me to law school. So when you got out of law school,

00:04:40.350 - 00:05:02.230

your first job, um, my first job brought me back to Petaluma. I had an earlier offer from recruitment for, to a firm in san Francisco and uh, I, I still remember the name because it was one of those that you almost couldn't take the job because

00:05:02.230 - 00:05:21.220

the name of the firm, that name was neck dingus fink and boring and and they were bonded terms even even worse. Uh, there's some tragic stories with that firm since then, but they're not important. But uh, I am interviewed with them, they brought me to san

00:05:21.220 - 00:05:36.540

Francisco one day, I went back to where I was living in the Oakland Hills and got back to the house and called back to them and said I can't take the job, I just can't make this commute every day for the rest of my life coming

00:05:36.540 - 00:05:56.130

back across the bay bridge from san Francisco to Oakland and then uh, I started trying to find out what I would do. Uh met new of art like Frankie in Petaluma, uh, art then was in partners with another fellow named moses, it was like Frankie and

00:05:56.130 - 00:06:15.240

moses was the law firm. They offered me a job to come back to Petaluma by the time I had passed the bar and came back to Petaluma Frankie and moses had split up and so it was just aren't like Frankie left and I came in there

00:06:15.240 - 00:06:34.820

at that same time with max Michelson and um the three of us for a number of years worked there as uh, as associates and then the firm became Frankie Bendinelli Michelson. And then a few years later fred Hirschfield joined and added Hirschfield to the name of

00:06:34.820 - 00:06:54.450

the firm and and we did mostly Agricultural Related work. I, I liked court and so I did criminal work mainly to get my driveway paved and my roof redone the things that, that some of the defendants pay off with when you're doing when you're doing criminal

00:06:54.450 - 00:07:17.240

work that but that got me into the courtroom where most of the work we had was no had very little courtroom contact with it. So, and when was this? When you started with 70? Probably 1970. Uh, must have been early 70. Okay, how is that going

00:07:17.240 - 00:07:47.330

to court in those days described the court system. Well the court had for superior court judges and for Munich court judges, um, Superior court were going down the hall link man, um, ken Hyman Moskowitz and joe Murphy. And then the Munich court coming across were uh,

00:07:47.340 - 00:08:10.270

were jim jones ken, highland frank castle Aqua. And then Al McMahon had the circuit route, the Petaluma and Sonoma primarily. And then, and then some other little branch courts at that time. And so you know, my first court contact obviously was in Petaluma on the, on

00:08:10.270 - 00:08:26.580

the criminal side on the criminal arrangements which were, which were, was an interesting time to be a young lawyer in a, in a court situation because Al McMahon had his own way of running a court. So how was that? What happened to go to court? And

00:08:26.590 - 00:08:52.350

well, first of all, the court was staffed permanently with a public defender who at that time was roger sanborn district attorney who at that time was brian Jamaar, a bailiff and I can't remember his name and a probation officer. Wiley was his name and Al McMahon.

00:08:52.940 - 00:09:16.180

Well, Petaluma court was monday and Tuesdays where the arraignment and, and those matters. So you go into court in the morning for the arraignment calendar, it would be full like arraignment calendars are, but about 11 30 quarter 12, there'd be a recess called for lunch. Whoever

00:09:16.180 - 00:09:36.230

was still in the courtroom lawyer wise would be part of the lunch and uh, we'd all go into the back and the bailiff would put a Hawaiian shirt on over his brown sheriff's uniform and we'd all get in cars and go down to the little hill

00:09:36.240 - 00:09:55.020

on main street boulevard that our main street then. But petaluma boulevard for lunch and it'd be a big communal table with a lot of eating and often a lot of drinking by those who who, who drank. We'd get back to court always late at for the

00:09:55.020 - 00:10:12.770

1 30 calendar and there'd be people sitting there waiting for the 1 30 calendar and the bailiff almost automatically would go into the courtroom and say you have to understand that a lot is done in the courthouse other than in the courtroom. And so the judge

00:10:12.770 - 00:10:32.550

has been in the back meeting with the lawyers in relation to the cases that are going this afternoon and then we'd all go back in and finish the calendar with, with that situation, Wednesday's was Sonoma day and we'd go to court in Sonoma on Wednesdays and

00:10:32.560 - 00:10:49.710

then the court was in the upstairs of the brick or the rock building in the center of the Sonoma plaza. And uh, so two things would happen on Wednesdays first of all there again would always be a lunch at the lunch break at from different places.

00:10:49.710 - 00:11:04.990

But the other thing that was interesting at that time because a lot of people came down from santa rosa for the, for the court in Sonoma, there was a great bakery right downtown in santa rosa, I mean in, in Sonoma and it was at that time

00:11:04.990 - 00:11:20.820

one of the few bakeries in California that stayed open on Wednesdays, which used to be the bakery closing day because they sold so much bread that people would bring baskets and bags of bread back to the courthouse to santa rosa on Wednesdays. So it was also

00:11:20.820 - 00:11:38.770

bakery day besides court day in in in in Sonoma. And uh you know that Thursdays and Fridays were whatever. Sometimes there would be trials or prelims or things other times, I don't know where Al McMahon went on those days. I I wasn't there very often with

00:11:38.770 - 00:12:01.325

that, but that's how that court system was, you know, and the superior court was just a good old boys group uh who you knew was very important. Uh judge well, well, yes, judge wise and otherwise, what, what, what experts you brought in for your trials was

00:12:01.325 - 00:12:19.570

very important. If the, if the judges knew them, it would make it, not that they were unfair, but they, you certainly got to do a lot more uh in relation to to who was known and everybody knew everybody. I mean the bar was very small. Uh

00:12:20.500 - 00:12:41.640

no one had a hidden reputation at that time. It was all right on your sleeve and and everybody knew it. So before we get to the spirit court judges going back, did you have any experience at all with the justice courts? Well, that's what they, well,

00:12:43.050 - 00:13:06.210

they were still, they, they were no longer justice courts where they were, they were all Munich courts. But at that time there was still a court house in Guerneville, Healdsburg and Cloverdale. Uh, I didn't know about them until I became a judge myself and got on

00:13:06.210 - 00:13:22.910

that circuit, but there were still remnants of the old justice court that still operated uh, during that time. So going back to the Petaluma court, what was it like? I mean, you go into court, I understand the lunch, the lunch break, all the work was done.

00:13:22.920 - 00:13:44.570

Um, what was it like just in the courtroom? I mean, was it, was it fair, did you get fair results? Probably no judge was fairer than Al McMahon. He knew everybody in the South County, he knew their families, he knew, he knew their histories and you

00:13:44.570 - 00:14:06.030

know, it was the way that I think everyone ideally would love to see a court operate uh, with a small population and and a known commodity. But I don't think I have never heard anyone who questioned the decisions that Al McMahon made as a judge. I

00:14:06.030 - 00:14:22.150

mean, it was, it was a good, a good situation and a good system. He had had a background in the seminary and didn't become a priest, but he spent quite a few years in the seminary. So a lot of his philosophy of justice and fairness was

00:14:22.160 - 00:14:38.680

related to that background that he had and he he was very close to law enforcement. I mean very close. In fact, I remember his car and I don't know if it was his car or at that time a county car, but he had one of those

00:14:38.680 - 00:14:53.860

hawaii 50 kind of lights that you could put your arm out the door and put it on the, so he could rush to accidents and things even though he was, he was the judge. But he he had some privileges that a lot of people have never

00:14:53.860 - 00:15:14.350

had since when it, when it came to that now. Did you get into the Spirit Courts in the early days? Yeah, from from from time to time, mostly on civil. Yeah, I don't think I ever tried a felony criminal case. Uh, but I remember, I mean,

00:15:14.350 - 00:15:32.310

there may have been some, but, but I can't remember any right now, but in civil cases on a, on a pretty regular basis, not, not as not as much as, as a lot of other lawyers probably did. But there were, there were certainly times when I

00:15:32.310 - 00:15:56.060

would be in the, in the spirit card. So going down the four civil judges, when you first started practicing, if you have any memories about that, it would be, we'd love to hear it. Well, uh, just trying to think through, I had very little contact with

00:15:56.060 - 00:16:13.390

Moskowitz. I don't know if I ever really was in his court. I mean, I, I knew him as a judge. Um but other than that, I don't really know him. Uh you know, joe Murphy was a ST of a judge. Uh I'll get probably very parallel

00:16:13.390 - 00:16:30.420

to McMahon with a different presentation. But when you went into joe Murphy's court, you knew that he would listen and you knew that the decision he made, he mean it, it was thought out by him and had a, had a basis that, that it was right,

00:16:30.430 - 00:16:45.780

whether he was for you or against you in the conclusion, you knew that the decision was right when, when he made it. Um, you know, they're, they're, they're uh link man was just a good old judge. Uh you know, I don't know how, what more to

00:16:45.780 - 00:17:02.610

say about about him. I mean, he had his foibles too. I mean, I think he had his downtown runs uh, at lunchtime that I, that I remember, although I was never really a part of him. But uh, and then, and then ken Hyman was either loved

00:17:02.610 - 00:17:23.160

or hated Kenai man. He was a sweet man. I mean, he was a real gentleman, but he was the one I think of all who best liked being a judge. He, when he wasn't in court, he was still a judge and that, that was kind of

00:17:23.160 - 00:17:36.680

a difference between Murphy and May and, and Moskowitz and, and, and ken Inman, but, but it was a good bench, I mean, it was, it was a very good bench. I don't, I don't think anybody at that time would say, oh heck, look what judge I

00:17:36.680 - 00:17:53.700

have to go to on this case. They were, they were all fine judges. Uh and and had been judges a long time when I, well, I guess probably Moskowitz had been there the least time, but they had all been judges a long time when I first

00:17:54.510 - 00:18:13.330

started coming to court. And it was, it was, you know, they each had their own secretaries, they each had their own offices there where you know, you, your contact was normally with the judge's secretary a long time before you ever got into the courtroom and and

00:18:13.330 - 00:18:35.800

she would control what went in, who got to talk to the judge and they were very good at what they did. They, they were very good. How did the bench change from the time you first started practicing? Well, it got bigger. Um that was er and

00:18:35.810 - 00:18:56.810

and bill boom, and it was, that was about the same time I became a judge, I don't know if it was like 76 to 78 or so when the, when the Superior court expanded the courthouse got kind of jerry rigged into some other courtrooms. Uh but

00:18:56.820 - 00:19:18.100

I never had judicial contact with either with either judge Boone or judge Sader because I was already a judge myself about the same time they came in and so um, you know, from there on things just got bigger quickly. That's what the real change was in

00:19:18.100 - 00:19:37.530

the court. Um, we'll get back to that actually. Why don't, why don't we spend a minute and talk about how you became a judge? Well, you know, as I said, I was a lawyer doing criminal work from time to time because of the court activities and

00:19:38.150 - 00:20:00.330

one day we'll first album man died. Um, and the seat was empty for quite a while and I was very active politically at that time. Um, and generally known as a, as a political activist and some people had asked me if I was interested in the

00:20:00.330 - 00:20:22.230

judgeship and I said, no, I had a, had a good partnership, a good law firm with, with four really good lawyers. In fact, at that time there were five uh lawyers at, you know, Frankie office and I wasn't interested at all. One day I was in

00:20:22.230 - 00:20:38.680

a criminal proceeding at the federal court and the judge who wasn't Al McMahon, he had already died, angered me by some of the things that occurred in the courtroom. And uh, that's the night I went back to the office and wrote one of those letters, you

00:20:38.680 - 00:20:56.730

can only write when you're really angry. And I wrote it to the governor. And effectively the main part of the letter was that I wrote it, if that's the best these judges can do make me a judge and I'll show you how a judge should do

00:20:56.730 - 00:21:21.210

it. And uh at that time there were no jenny commissions or any of those type of things and I really did nothing more than that letter. Um and I'm sure activities took place jerry Brown was was governor then um I remember meeting with somebody one time

00:21:21.210 - 00:21:40.470

in sacramento maybe a couple of months after I wrote that letter uh heard nothing until I was a client. No I think Klein was came Klein was part of my second appointment. I don't remember if it was, I mean I wasn't paying any attention then to

00:21:40.470 - 00:22:02.730

be honest with you uh at that time but I don't know for sure it was client in in that in that first appointment in 77. Uh but it it was April just Before my birthday April of of 77 I got a call um from the governor

00:22:02.740 - 00:22:25.140

which I didn't take because the governor wasn't gonna call me. Uh then the secretary said no you better take this call. And the call came on the intercom and someone said the governor's on the phone. Yeah, yeah and and you know I remember where I got

00:22:25.150 - 00:22:42.980

the call and in the back of my mind I may have been at the courthouse in Petaluma but wherever I got the call and it was jerry Brown on the phone and he he said I'm gonna take you up on your challenge and see if you

00:22:42.990 - 00:23:04.920

how you can do as a judge. And after the brief conversation I said, well I want to talk to my wife about this and he said, you can't, I've already announced it to the newspaper. So, so at that point I was a judge. Uh, and that

00:23:04.920 - 00:23:25.920

was april, I think it was probably june or july before I took the bench clearing up my, my practice and things. And I got assigned to basically what was department for, which was the traveling court of Al McMahon. So it was monday Tuesday in petaluma Wednesday

00:23:25.920 - 00:23:56.520

in Sonoma, thursday friday. Usually Petaluma except one day a month. I go to either Granville Healdsburg or Cloverdale um, amazing courtrooms. Uh, Granville was somewhere, it was a a room off of the Sheriff's substation in Greenville Just and we do traffic and small claims, their heels.

00:23:56.520 - 00:24:14.430

Berg had kind of an upstairs room in a little shopping center that's right across the street from the raven theater. I still remember where it was. You'd walk up these cranky stairs and there'd be, and I really think that was probably um frank castle was original

00:24:14.430 - 00:24:32.960

courtroom when he was a justice court judge in, in hills Berg and then Gardenville. I have no, I've, I've even tried to remember where it was, but that was called the abalone calendar because almost all there was in Greenville were fish and game violations and and

00:24:32.960 - 00:24:47.520

it would be once a month you have this little calendar there, you would go out with a bailiff and there'd be, you know, a few people there and and and and I don't even know who was the clerk, whether they had someone who was there full

00:24:47.520 - 00:25:12.660

time. They must have, who took filings and and processed tickets and things. But it was, it was a real circuit that uh went through there. Um then I did that for a year or two and then the Sonoma City Hall where the courtroom was upstairs in

00:25:12.660 - 00:25:35.440

the, in the city hall had a fire one day. Uh and the building burned substantially. It didn't burn down, but it burned substantially. And I remember getting a phone call from the city manager, call me saying bill, you better get over here to the Sonoma court

00:25:35.450 - 00:25:54.690

this morning. And I said, what's going on? And he says, well the the court or the city hall burned last night and Raeburn is here taking the furniture and and I don't remember if Rayburn was already a judge then or was only a district attorney but

00:25:54.700 - 00:26:17.330

uh I had to run over to Sonoma to uh to save the the oak chairs and oak furniture from being removed from the facilities and from there for a short time we moved up to like a veteran's building or something uh on the east side of

00:26:17.330 - 00:26:43.140

Sonoma where we shared space with a meeting hall where on Wednesdays was aerobics day. And so we'd be holding court, I'd be the judge in, in, in, in the Sonoma court listening to this music through the thin wall of, of people doing aerobics during the court

00:26:43.170 - 00:27:00.870

and you have to stop the proceedings from time to time while the song change the one that wasn't quite as loud. It was quite a unusual situation that didn't have a lot of judicial atmosphere, but in Sonoma that wasn't that important. It really wasn't that important

00:27:00.870 - 00:27:26.170

in Sonoma, which was again, you know the the court where everybody knew everybody. Um where the, the regular lawyers were there, the the Sonoma batch, most of it was minor criminal, drunk driving things uh alcohol related was the, the major activities where a couple of the

00:27:26.170 - 00:27:47.990

lawyers would sometimes be a little more loop than their clients were when they came into court. But everybody, everybody knew everybody and it worked out fine through there. Um So I, that was the first, when they built a new courthouse in Sonoma. That was the first

00:27:48.000 - 00:28:11.740

courtroom that I helped design. And as I'm thinking now I have probably designed four or five courtrooms, it seemed as I moved through my career, it was always into a new spot and a new courtroom had to be put together. Um because it was 81. Well,

00:28:11.750 - 00:28:31.580

first of all, sometime in this time, the Munich court started to expand also and I know they added at least one more department to the, to the Munich court and I think that's um yeah it was just, it was just one, one Court Dick Day got

00:28:31.580 - 00:28:55.350

appointed to that court. And so they started expansion in the courthouse in in in santa rosa and decided to consolidate the Munich courts and so basically they closed Petaluma Sonoma. I think the other three had all been already been closed by that time and moved everything

00:28:55.350 - 00:29:20.380

back to to santa rosa. Wasn't that politically sensitive people. Very, very much so, very much so. I'm trying to remember who the supervisors were at that time um might have been a big fella but but but I mean I I really don't know how it was

00:29:20.380 - 00:29:35.910

done, I mean I wasn't a part of that but I do know someone took some some real guff from a lot of local people when when that happened and I I wasn't in favor of it, I I enjoyed the the gig that I had because you

00:29:35.910 - 00:29:53.020

know I could sit from my house which was up on a hill west of Petaluma and looked down at the at the court parking lot and and see what was going on there and things. I do remember one day it was a saturday and I was

00:29:53.030 - 00:30:09.220

on a tractor up at my house and I looked down and I could see people milling around the front of the courthouse and I remembered that I had had a wedding that I was supposed to do that day at the, at the courthouse that I had

00:30:09.230 - 00:30:24.690

totally forgotten. So I had to quickly run into the house, throw on some clothes without even taking a shower and and and get down to the courthouse to do that wedding. I promised these people to do, but that was part of the small town, part of

00:30:24.690 - 00:30:42.050

what was, what was going on there too. So I think that was was Munich court, we built the new courthouse in Sonoma and then closed it. Uh and Petaluma already had its courtroom which I think is still there. I mean it might still do some activities

00:30:42.050 - 00:31:05.750

there at the at the, but it's still there. Yeah, so that was, that was Munich court Not not too, oh there is one other thing that my first day as a judge and came up to santa rosa to be sworn in and ken highland took me

00:31:05.750 - 00:31:27.410

aside and he gave me the best advice that anyone has ever given me as a judge. He put his arm around my shoulder and he says bill remember if it involves dogs, Children or mobile home parks, be careful and and and I think it was wonderful

00:31:27.410 - 00:31:52.550

advice for for for a judge. So, and I guess I don't know the the do you want things about how the interior of the Munich court ran with the two secretaries and things, you know that was Allison carlene were the Alice Tewksbury and Carlene clawson were

00:31:52.550 - 00:32:14.510

the two secretaries to all the Munich court judges. Uh and best friends of all the lawyers who again, like the system was when I started, you went through them to get to the judges and uh they knew everybody and everybody's business and it worked pretty efficiently

00:32:14.510 - 00:32:41.050

that way. Um we were all kind of clustered in that little quad that the various offices came off of around it and it was a pretty tight group of of Munich court judges. So 81 I guess. Um They expanded the Superior Court again at that time,

00:32:41.050 - 00:33:09.140

there were 6 uh They expanded the Spirit Chord again and who are the six at the time? I think brian Jamaar had replaced Moskowitz in a contested election. Okay. Whether john Gallagher had had taken over for link man yet at that time, I don't remember uh

00:33:09.150 - 00:33:31.150

it was about the same time, in fact in fact Gallagher might have been elected the same election Jamaar was uh so so at that time then it would be Gallagher. Um Still I'm an Jamaar and um Murphy and then rex Seder and Bill boom, those were,

00:33:31.420 - 00:33:56.450

those were the six judges there. So I was appointed as Department seven of the Superior Court with no place to go and there was at that time, I think a jury assembly room. Um there were the two small courtrooms on the back of the hall facing

00:33:56.450 - 00:34:19.990

the new Sheriff's office and then there was a jury assembly room and that was decided to become department seven, which was the second courtroom, I had to work with county, whatever department was to uh, to build that out. So that was my courtroom there for A

00:34:19.990 - 00:34:47.740

number of years, starting in, in 81. Um, then it just, the courts just started expanding more and more. There were a couple more Munich court open up while I was there. We then opened two courtrooms over in what was the, the old State Farm building, which

00:34:47.740 - 00:35:08.540

is the same set of buildings where the courtrooms are, where the two courtrooms are now. But in a different part of the building we had built out to more courtrooms there. Yeah. In that, in that, that building there. No, no. Yeah, it was, it was the

00:35:09.530 - 00:35:36.200

southernmost building, not the northern building where the, uh, where the courthouse is now. Uh, I guess maybe that's some credit credit credit union building, but it originally was State Farm and then it was the medical. Hmm. Oh yeah, Health, health, that's, that's where we rented it

00:35:36.200 - 00:35:56.810

from. But, but the story goes there when State Farm left, we could have had, we, the court could have had that building, um, Hugo who owned the building offered it to the county and for some reason the county didn't want that building and you can see

00:35:56.810 - 00:36:11.430

what's happened since on the, on all the rents and things. I again, I don't know the internal side of what went on in relation to that. But I do know Hugh cutting offered that building to the county when state farm left before health plan of the

00:36:11.430 - 00:36:28.740

redwoods came in. But another one of those decisions that didn't quite pan out. But you know, when you mentioned that you had some involvement in the design of some of the courtrooms. Remember Judge Seders department was allegedly sort of copied after a courtroom in the round

00:36:28.740 - 00:36:44.170

and George and I don't know whether it all worked out or not, but I remember it had some unique characteristics to it that were different from the other courtroom, which was terrible sound. Yes, it had a dead spot right in front of the jury and that

00:36:44.170 - 00:37:00.470

happened also in marin County. Uh, it still does, I mean, I practiced in marin County. There was also a place in those round courtrooms in marin County where the room went silent if you stepped into them. I mean the strangest, strangest acoustics of it. But yeah,

00:37:00.470 - 00:37:25.160

that, that's why we didn't copy those two courtrooms when department seven was built, which was built into a more traditional court there. Um, but while I was at the main courthouse there, there was a, you know, again was a growing court where we were going through

00:37:25.160 - 00:37:42.380

all different kinds of calendar ring activities. We never really got, I think at that time to direct calories. But there was still a master calendar, but people were doing almost everything. There wasn't a criminal department in the civil department if you were, if you were available

00:37:42.380 - 00:38:04.130

and alive, you had something, something to do, uh, in the, in the court side. And uh, so we all did everything um, worked out, worked out fine for me. I mean, you never got bored, but you know, there are calendars that, that I always like, I

00:38:04.130 - 00:38:22.990

mean I, I liked arraignment calendars. I liked people calendars. I mean I, I, I enjoyed the big courtroom and the moving a lot of people through those calendars. Uh, I mean all, all parts of it then we're fun and interesting. I, I did have my favorite

00:38:23.000 - 00:38:46.640

calendar though. And that was, it was on friday. So I don't know if it was two Fridays a month or every friday. And it was the district attorney's family support calendar where deadbeat dads primarily would get brought in by the D. A. Uh, for their non

00:38:46.640 - 00:39:08.450

payment of support. And when we started that calendar, I was, or the calendar was assigned to young lawyers, a public defender and a district attorney and the public defender was Stephanie joy and the district attorney was Cynthia dentals, both who became commissioner judges later on in

00:39:08.450 - 00:39:27.550

their career. And when we started the calendar, I took the two of them aside and I said in this room in this calendar only there will be no bill of rights. I said, you, you folks, you folks can do what you think you need to do,

00:39:27.560 - 00:39:46.050

but, but work with me on this, we're not gonna have a bill of rights. You stop me if it goes too far, but we're gonna work this. So it's efficient and it does what it's supposed to do. So we bring in these, I mean, are they

00:39:46.060 - 00:40:12.070

calendar these, these various people and there were a couple of rules quietly and internally, if a deadbeat dad brought in his girlfriend to watch him when he was there making his excuses for not paying support, he would pay either either. Either. He would be sat in

00:40:12.070 - 00:40:37.390

the courtroom to the last person was called or he would get called up and be in effect arrested and placed in the holding cell to the end of the calendar, uh, till he came out and then was agreeable to do something support wise. I used to

00:40:37.390 - 00:40:57.630

have a a jar on the front of my desk that was full of toothbrushes and when a person would come in with this long excuse and not having paid support, I would hand to the bailiff and the bailiff would hand him a toothbrush And I'd say

00:40:57.640 - 00:41:14.830

this is just a reminder. I want you back here at 1 30 this afternoon with $200. If not, you're gonna be using that toothbrush for five days in jail. So carry this with you while you're trying to get that $200 for today and things like that

00:41:14.830 - 00:41:34.710

would happen. That, that there were two that I remember the most you realize I wouldn't be a judge anymore if any of this happened now in in courtrooms, but had one fellow who came down periodically from Mendocino County and he was living out in the woods

00:41:34.710 - 00:41:51.220

and one of these off grid places and, and uh talking to him one day about, you know what he did and why he didn't have any money. And he and he mentioned that that he raises pigs and I looked and said pigs, ham comes from pigs,

00:41:51.220 - 00:42:06.180

don't they, doesn't it? And he says, yeah, it does. It says, OK. I said every six weeks I want you in this courtroom with a ham for your kids and he did as long as I was there, he did that every six weeks brought a ham

00:42:06.190 - 00:42:31.930

to the courthouse to give to his family another fellow. And this was, was a kind of a notorious situation. He walks in wearing either either snake or alligator boots and a big silver belt buckle and he had no money at all. That's why I wasn't paying

00:42:31.930 - 00:42:46.340

support. So I chatted with him for a while from the bench and and looked at him. I said, you know, that's quite a belt buckle you have there? He says, I said, I'll give you 50 bucks for that buckle right now. That will be some money

00:42:46.340 - 00:43:00.730

for your support. And I said that's a great pair of boots that you have. I bet someone here in the courtroom would, would offer to buy those boots from you. Does anybody want to buy a good pair of boots? And you know, he just kind of

00:43:00.740 - 00:43:17.430

looking at me and I said, well tell you what, rather than selling your boots and your buckle here now, I said you come back this afternoon and I set some dollar amount with X dollars and you can keep your belt and your boots came by that

00:43:17.430 - 00:43:35.570

afternoon with Nobel wearing flip flops and the amount of money that I told him to come and uh, and a couple of other things and, and this, I didn't really realize till after I had left my bailiff who was every arrow who was with me the

00:43:35.580 - 00:43:51.600

whole time, I was a judge, both mini court and superior court um recognized that in that calendar and actually in other calendars to if I lean back and cross my arms, the guy was going to jail. I mean it was, it was, that's as far as

00:43:51.600 - 00:44:08.180

I was gonna listen and at some point when he stopped talking, I was gonna put him in jail. So if when I lean back and cross my arms ever would quietly get up and we're behind, get behind the person knowing what was going to happen. Uh

00:44:08.190 - 00:44:27.610

well one day for whatever reason the calendar got called in one of those round courtrooms that we're talking about that. I wasn't used to, uh, I think that was Arnie Rosenfeld's department at that time. And it was a typical calendar and I crossed my arms and

00:44:27.610 - 00:44:45.820

lean back as the chair went all the way over and I disappeared. Well, as I'm pulling myself up over the edge of the bench ever already has the guy out the door. I hadn't even said anything yet because he knew that that guy was gonna was

00:44:45.820 - 00:45:01.500

gonna go out for sure. But, but that, that was a fun calendar because it what didn't have the, the structure, this, the structures or otherwise and, and it got the job done and, and, and I know Cynthia and, and Stephanie and I still talk about those

00:45:01.500 - 00:45:25.280

days when, when things like that could happen. And I guess justice was done. I had many conversations with Stephanie about those days about that calendar. Yeah, she loved it. I did what calendar? I did that calendar one day, the morning after my bachelor party before I

00:45:25.280 - 00:45:48.670

got married. That was an interesting day in the, in the courtroom. What my friends had had dressed me that night in a superman suit, which had, you know, was dark with a big s and by the time I got home, I didn't have any clothes to

00:45:48.670 - 00:46:09.560

put on and I had to go to court. So I put my robe on over my superman's who were the top of the s still show and and I also had no shoes. And so I that morning sprinted into that curve room so I could sit

00:46:09.560 - 00:46:32.180

down behind the bench and started calling the calendar. And and and I wasn't too judicious our judicial at the time. I guess I remember hearing in the in the atmosphere either Stephanie or or or Cynthia say and this matter is gonna have to go to trial.

00:46:32.980 - 00:46:49.070

And I remember looking up and saying do you mean today as the two of them step back about two steps and said no any time you want your honor. But that was that was a if it wasn't for that calendar, I wouldn't have been in court

00:46:49.070 - 00:47:12.730

that day. I know so nor did I get a letter from the commission on judicial performance that day. I did get one, did get one um steve ter and gale gale who had replaced me in the Munich court. She took my seat when I went to

00:47:12.730 - 00:47:31.620

the Superior Court or was appointed to my seat when I when I went to the Superior Court and I used to cook all the time for different charities and things. And so we got a phone call from a mutual friend who was doing some promotional stuff

00:47:31.620 - 00:48:01.850

and asked if if she could take or have some pictures taken of us in giants paraphernalia and with with cooking stuff in our hands and it somehow ended up as the front page of a cutting town flyer for a cutting town sale and the commission on

00:48:01.850 - 00:48:26.910

judicial performance or whatever it was called. Then wrote me a letter saying have you ever considered ethics rule such and such? Which was the rule relating to lending your name to commercial activities. And so I on court letterhead wrote back dear such and such. Yes, signed

00:48:26.910 - 00:48:51.010

my name and never heard a word back. They asked if I had considered it and I did and so but that was my only only contact with the dish performance commission was off of that uh Superior Court judge from three month period 81. Too late 90

00:48:51.020 - 00:49:07.640

right. Was there a point where you were one of the youngest judges appointed in the state at Munich court level. But I was 32 when I got the call from jerry brown, I turned 33 before I got sworn in. But at that time I was the

00:49:07.640 - 00:49:28.720

youngest Munich court judge I know frank castle aka had been younger as a, as a justice court judge. But uh I to my understanding I was the youngest Munich court judge. Uh they still have a 10 year rule for Superior court. Yes it was, it wasn't

00:49:28.720 - 00:49:49.150

for Munich court I in 81 I was had been a lawyer and a judge for 11 years. So I just made the The 10 Year Rule on the Superior Court side. But 1 1 thing I didn't mention in my music or my my early education as

00:49:49.150 - 00:50:24.150

a Munich court judge. Um I um made a very controversial decision at one point. This is when there was some kind of a federal grant drug enforcement grant to Sonoma County. And there was a helicopter fly over somewhere in in the county where a large field

00:50:24.150 - 00:50:48.590

of marijuana had been discovered, rated and the arrests were made. And the matter came into me I guess at prelim stage or otherwise. And I made a decision in that case basically at that time, the F. A. A. Flight rules were that Over a populated area

00:50:48.600 - 00:51:08.800

plane couldn't fly below 1000 ft and over a rural area plane couldn't fly below 500 ft. And wherever this was, it was clear that the sheriff's plane with the reviewing person was flying below the F. F. A. A. Rules. And uh so in the prelim I

00:51:08.800 - 00:51:28.920

ruled that it was an illegal search. And throughout what was at that time the biggest bust of this whole federal program. I will mention that some years later the Court of appeal changed that that rule or wouldn't have let my order stand as I did at

00:51:28.920 - 00:51:59.490

that point. Well, that started quite an uproar among the law enforcement side, primarily the sheriff's office and the deputy district attorney who had been assigned as and hired for that project was the aforementioned Rayburn. This was before he became a judge. Well he and then Sheriff

00:51:59.500 - 00:52:25.760

Don Street pick attempted to initiate a recall campaign against me because of that decision. And they spent as politicians at that time, did a lot of time in the rural areas of the county, the volunteer fire departments, the uh, the granges and otherwise. Uh, but unbeknownst

00:52:25.760 - 00:52:50.360

to them, that's where I grew up. And they, they learned shortly that if they were trying to generate support for their recall against me and the person they were talking to called me billy that they had no chance of convincing them of the efficacy of their,

00:52:50.370 - 00:53:07.060

of their projects. So that, that gradually died as they, as they worked a little bit harder. But they had, I mean, there, I think there are still around some newspaper articles where they were trying to gin up support for that recall that, uh, that never, never

00:53:07.060 - 00:53:37.650

took effect. But, but that was a lesson in, in politics of uh, I think on both sides of that equation. So what led to your decision to leave the judiciary to things? Um, the first was that it must have been 88 maybe, uh, for some reason

00:53:37.650 - 00:54:00.760

I was doing a, a domestic calendar and it was over in the, the courthouse annex that we talked about before over in the old medical building and it was a very heated family law matter and tempers were pretty high. And so at the end of the

00:54:00.760 - 00:54:21.800

proceeding, I asked the husband and the husband's lawyer to leave the courtroom, Asked the wife and her lawyer to stay in the jury box for a while. I just didn't want them to meet outside the door of the court and the doors of that court opened

00:54:21.810 - 00:54:42.510

to the exterior. There wasn't an interior place in there. And so about 10 minutes past as I did some other things and I nodded over to the lawyer and his client that they could leave now. And as they were walking out of the courtroom, the husband

00:54:42.510 - 00:55:05.520

shot both of them. Neither were killed, but they were, but they were both seriously injured and that was a rather hectic day. He had gotten away and, and I, and I know couple of things happened that day. Uh I heard later from my wife that she

00:55:05.520 - 00:55:30.260

was, she had been shopping and came home to our house and was in the house unloading her groceries or something. When a sheriff's officer broke in carrying a a an assault weapon because when he, they went to my house not knowing where the shooter had gone

00:55:30.770 - 00:55:47.870

and the garage door was open and the door from the garage into the house was open and they didn't know what had happened there. And so they just broke into the house or ran into the house. Uh to see if everything was right there. Also later

00:55:47.870 - 00:56:04.750

that day I had gone home and and everybody was still obviously very shaken up and she and I had driven somewhere and I remember we were in a parking lot. I don't know if it was a parking lot cutting town or maybe down at Costco or

00:56:04.750 - 00:56:23.730

something. And I'm listening to the radio and there's a, an interview being done made with the sheriff and one of the recorders says, and I assume that that judge that nellie is is is under protection now and the sheriff said certainly we are taking care of

00:56:23.740 - 00:56:41.020

of all of that. And I remember looking around the gale said you happen to see our protection somewhere around this parking lot this afternoon. But that was, I mean, but that was the, the first thing. It, it made me wonder the worth and value of what

00:56:41.020 - 00:57:08.660

was going on there. Shortly after that there was a brutal mass murder. The a fellow killed his wife, killed his boss, killed his daughter and tried to kill his second daughter, dumping both of the, of the Children in the dump at the, at the dump and

00:57:08.660 - 00:57:34.030

one of one of his Children survived. And that case, it was assigned to me. Uh maybe I can back up a little bit here because it's very important In probably 84, I was presiding judge and I am let the clerk's office know that as presiding judge.

00:57:34.040 - 00:57:53.270

I wanted to be in charge of the financial side of all death penalty murders, the payment, public defender or private counsel. Uh, investigators. And otherwise. And I don't know if it exists now, but at that time there was a statute that the judge who did that

00:57:53.280 - 00:58:15.100

could not work the case could not try or be involved in the case. So I did that intentionally to automatically exclude myself from death penalty cases because I basically knew from early in my career that if required to, I could never impose the death penalty on

00:58:15.100 - 00:58:37.750

anyone. And so I had protected myself for probably four or five years with that rule, a a good presiding judge took over in in about 88 or so and finally figured out why I was never getting any death penalty assignments. And uh cleared up that that

00:58:37.760 - 00:59:02.700

matter down at the clerk's office. And so I had been, so I got assigned this um this murder case. Um I went through some very serious soul searching ah because of how I felt about the death penalty. And I remember having a meeting with um joe

00:59:02.700 - 00:59:17.920

Rattigan who was an appellate court justice then, who used to do a lot of his work at the coffee shop downstairs at the courthouse when he was working here. And and, and I, you know, I joe had been kind of a mentor of mine through, through

00:59:17.920 - 00:59:32.490

much of my career. And so I sat down with, with joe and kind of laid out my thoughts and I said, well, well what do you what do you think I should do? And he, I remember him looking at me saying, he says, Bill, you've already

00:59:32.490 - 00:59:52.930

made up your mind. So I thanked him and decided I was gonna, I was going to quit and and did. And it was obviously time for other reasons other than that, because I remember going home that day and telling Gayle that I was going to leave

00:59:52.930 - 01:00:12.970

the court. And I remember her line was what took you so long. So so she also knew and and really I was, I was tired of the administrative side. You know, that was a difficult time where, you know, continuances were counted as a success. Uh calendars

01:00:12.970 - 01:00:31.020

were kicked along, not a lot was getting done, Everything was rushed and crowded and I was, I was getting tired of it. And so uh um I uh there was one of these late year, late in the year planning meetings that the judges always had planning

01:00:31.020 - 01:00:49.420

assignments for the next years. So that must have been august or september or so of that year. And we were at a couple day retreat at a meeting and we had been through all the discussions and whoever the presiding judge was starting to make the assignments.

01:00:49.430 - 01:01:07.110

And I remember speaking up and saying before you do, I just want to let you know, I'm not gonna be here next year. And so that was the first word that anybody had had that I was leaving. And and so I left the end of my,

01:01:09.770 - 01:01:26.290

I know I left first week of january, so I don't know if that was the end of my term. Yes, it was because I had just been elected that year, probably in the primary of that year. And so I stayed through to the end of my

01:01:26.300 - 01:01:55.000

first term, which left a blank, an empty term um to go and I had no idea what I was going to do, I didn't have any plans, I just knew I wasn't gonna be a judge And 45, 44 Yeah, it must have been 45. I I

01:01:55.010 - 01:02:12.450

had talked to several law firms, mainly Bay Area law firms at that time. They were starting to set up branch offices here in Sonoma County and I had talked to several, in fact, I had, I had committed to to go into one law firm when out

01:02:12.450 - 01:02:41.680

of the blue, I got a phone call from two former judges from San Francisco or the bay area, um Kohli Fannin and um um dan Weinstein and they said they want to talk to me, go to lunch with me. So I had no idea who they

01:02:41.680 - 01:03:03.240

were. So I went to lunch with them and they told me about this new thing, they were starting in in san Francisco called judicial arbitration and mediation service jams and it sounded like A good thing, I had no idea what mediation was in in 1990, but

01:03:03.250 - 01:03:25.430

um I decided to go there and it was truthfully the best decision I ever made. I've been doing that now for 22 years been doing that for 22 years and that's where we are right now. So any questions, you the only one I had were and

01:03:25.430 - 01:03:42.920

you kind of covered it indirectly. Were there some content in addition of the recall effort that you mentioned. Were there any controversial judicial elections during the period of time that you're on the Unity and Superior Court? Yeah, quite a few. Because that was that was an

01:03:42.930 - 01:04:08.290

active time in relation to removal of judges. I mean, I I already mentioned that um brian Jamaar defeated Judge Moskowitz over a sentencing. I think that Judge Moskowitz said over a single sentencing in a career was the, was the real basis of that campaign. Um Raeburn

01:04:09.240 - 01:04:34.940

ran against Dick Day who had been appointed at that new department and defeated him. And that was just the liberal versus conservative run. Ray Giordano, a very good judge, defeated Jim jones at about that same time. Within within a few years. There there were there were

01:04:34.940 - 01:05:09.040

three or four heavily contested elections that Change the bench. Yeah, yeah, maybe maybe early, maybe 1980 around when, when when um rage defeated jones. But I mean there there were at least three sitting judges um defeated. And I remember when that I guess it was used

01:05:09.040 - 01:05:28.290

to be february time where you had to declare whether you were running for a seat or so, there were a number of champagne popping in the courthouse when certain of us had got no opposition. I remember a serious time with rex Seder when he was being

01:05:28.300 - 01:05:50.500

challenged by somebody, um uh when that february date passed and he hadn't, no one had declared against him. Uh There was one situation of mine. This is a story I should I should mention here. Um I think it was, it must have been when I was

01:05:50.510 - 01:06:11.310

after I was in the Superior Court because I think there was a one year or the next general election time after an appointment that you're on the ballot. And there have been rumors that a certain deputy district attorney was considering running against me. So one afternoon

01:06:11.310 - 01:06:30.450

I went over to the District attorney's office and went into his office to talk to him. And we chatted for a minute and I looked at him and I said, should my folks buy that new Mercedes? And he looks at me, he says, I don't know

01:06:30.450 - 01:06:47.180

what you mean. And I said, should my parents buy that new Mercedes, they're looking at. And he says, I really don't know what you're talking about. And I said, well listen, If you're gonna run against me, they're gonna give me that $40,000 for my campaign if

01:06:47.180 - 01:07:05.550

you're not gonna run, they're gonna buy this car. And I would really like to let them know what they should do. And that's the last I heard of that, uh, of that, uh, approach. Although I did, uh, at that time, the press democrat used to have

01:07:05.550 - 01:07:30.140

a little section of meetings and things and I started publishing my uh, weekly campaign meetings for my judicial. There never was a meeting, but, but just to, to kind of, and, and, and everybody sitting then was doing that, just kind of steering the political, um, isles

01:07:30.140 - 01:07:46.320

a bit. And that's one of one of the things that I didn't like about the situation that I was in, was that politization of the, of judiciary, I guess it's still going on, it still occurs now and it's, it's just not a comfortable place to be.

01:07:46.330 - 01:08:07.340

Um, you know, my philosophy always was the day I thought about the political ramifications of. Any decision I made would be the last day I would be a judge and I was able to live by that. The only thing I think we didn't cover was the

01:08:07.340 - 01:08:38.720

relationship with the bar and things of that nature. But were you involved with the, with any of the bar picnics or anything like that? Not as a judge. uh, there's other lawyers you could talk to about those, but that was really before 77. That was before

01:08:38.720 - 01:08:56.880

I was, that's when the bar was small and all male except for one woman who never came. And uh, it was a different time then also, even though it was the seventies I considered it the post war period. I didn't know what war it was, but

01:08:56.890 - 01:09:13.290

it was the post war period. So there were a lot of liberties taken when I came up here in 82. Came up to the county in 82 from san Francisco. It was a different time. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the the numbers were so much

01:09:13.290 - 01:09:38.810

smaller. I mean you knew everybody's name and phone number. I mean there was, there was a lot of conversation that doesn't occur now. I mean by by opponents and partners and it was just different. Small is easier and that's we. I mean we went through a

01:09:38.810 - 01:10:04.820

small period where I mean, I don't think, I don't think any less justice was accomplished. But its appearances were certainly different. I mean just just as a judge, a thing that's really changed. I mean, christmas was a great time as a judge. I mean you get

01:10:04.830 - 01:10:25.510

baskets of things on your front porch and and invitations. Two things that really truthfully weren't thought about then. As I mean, I think the comment was if if a gallon of ice cream changes one of my decisions, I shouldn't be here anyway. Or or or or

01:10:25.510 - 01:10:49.020

there'd be the ST Patrick's day feast and the and the that that different companies and things would put in and put on and involve the invite. All the judges and dignitaries to uh, there. But that's all that's all changed now. It really has. Is there anything

01:10:49.020 - 01:11:10.730

that you would like to add? You have an address? No, I mean, other than than, and although, because what a lot of what I've said is is pretty light. I really have to underscore the respect I have for the judiciary and the judicial system. I mean,

01:11:10.740 - 01:11:33.000

it was the core of my life and uh, it, it is something that, that I'm proud of and I think everyone should be satisfied with as, as that era which has changed was still a valid and valuable part of a, of the society here in Sonoma

01:11:33.000 - 01:11:49.470

County. Is there any advice you'd like to give to our current and incoming judges if it involves dogs, Children or mobile home parks? Be careful, Thank you very much. Judge. You know, it's over now. Right?