2009 Bar Association Careers of Distinction : William L. Bettinelli (ret.), Honorable Dennis Beaman, Larry J. Scoufos

the four consolidation. So you're kind of like a hybrid. That's great. That's wonderful. So if you move around too much remembering, I'm not a professional photographer. Okay, but you don't have to be still close it off just a minute. Good morning. I'm not here. Okay. Okay.

That was here for nine hours last week with Jack and a bunch of people, real emotional cases. That guy that chased the people on the golf course to the golf course. I was on the wrong side of that. The gulf, I had the guy in the

car, liquid coverage, $100,000 policy was worth two or three million case cain. Did a good job. We are here with judge William Bendinelli. Uh, so it would be good if you could just start by talking about what background, where you're born, growing up? Okay, well I

was Born in West Marin County and uh in the Tamales area and uh, when I was about six years old moved to, to Petaluma to a ranch and south of Petaluma and lived there. Have lived there all my life. I've been within 16 miles of where

I was born for 60, almost 69 years now. So I have not uh ventured far from the original roots uh of myself and my family, just a farm family and agricultural family, a dairy family and have stayed close to that for my whole life. So how

did you end up getting against the law? Um, well I was an agriculture major at Fresno state, uh, dairy science major and It rained one morning and because of that I became a lawyer basically. Um every year Fresno state played then University of Pacific and football

at Stockton. And when the games were in Stockton most of the school would take a train to Stockton for the purpose of the game. And I was living in a fraternity house and came the day of the U. O. P. Game and got up in the

morning and it was just raining terribly and so everybody was getting ready to go to Stockton to the football game. And I looked out and I said listen I'm not gonna get on that train, get drunk, sit in the stadium all day right back wet and

cold you guys leave. So the attorney house left and I was there by myself and the attorney house and probably later in the morning 10 or 10 30 it stopped raining and the sun came out and I took a walk onto the campus just to do

something and I walked past the gym at Fresno and they were giving the law school S. A. T. S. That day and I had nothing to do for the afternoon. So I went in signed up, took the S. A. T. Uh did well and then I

had to figure out what to do with the with the score that I got and you know at about the same time There I was losing a lot of friends to the draft that was 60 five probably and law school was a three year program and

so I am decided at least to apply. I had never heard of law school or law schools. The only law school I ever knew anything about was university of California somewhere I had heard the name, bolt hall. So I applied to bolt hall, the only school

that I applied to for law school and was admitted and accepted to bolt for the class of 66. And that's, I mean it's pure fortuitous luck, um, ignorance, whatever it might have been, got me to law school. So when you got out of law school, your

first job, um, my first job brought me back to Petaluma. I had an earlier offer from recruitment for, to a firm in san Francisco And uh, I, I still remember the name because it was one of those that you almost couldn't take the job because the

name of the firm, that name was neck dingus fink and boring and and they were bonded attorneys even even worse. Uh, there's some tragic stories with that firm since then, but they're not important. But uh, I am interviewed with them. They brought me to san Francisco

one day. I went back to where I was living in the Oakland Hills and got back to the house and called back to them and said I can't take the job, I just can't make this commute every day for the rest of my life coming back

across the bay bridge from san Francisco to Oakland and then uh I started trying to find out what I would do. Uh met new of art like Frankie in Petaluma art then was in partners with another fellow named moses. It was like Frankie and moses was

the law firm. They offered me a job to come back to Petaluma by the time I had passed the bar and came back to petaluma Frankie and moses had split up and so it was just art Frankie left and I came in there at that same

time with max Mickelson and um the three of us for a number of years worked there as as associates and then the firm became the Frankie Bendinelli Michelson. And then a few years later fred Hirschfield joined and added Hirschfield to the name of the firm and

and we did mostly Agricultural-related work. I liked court and so I did criminal work mainly to get my driveway paved and my roof redone the things that that some of the defendants pay off with when you're doing when you're doing criminal work that but that got

me into the courtroom where most of the work we had was no had very little courtroom contact with it. So and when was this? When you started with 70? Probably 1970 must have been early 70. Okay, how was that going to court in those days described

the court system. Well the court had four Superior court judges and for Munich court judges um Superior court were going down the hall link man, um ken Hyman Moskowitz and joe Murphy. And then the Munich court coming across were were jim jones ken, highland frank castle

Aqua and then Al McMahon had the circuit route, the Petaluma and Sonoma primarily. And then, and then some other little branch courts at that time. And so you know, my first court contact obviously was in Petaluma on the, on the criminal side on the criminal arrangements

which were, which were, was an interesting time to be a young lawyer in a, in a court situation because Al McMahon had his own way of running a court. So how was that? What happened to go to court? And first of all, the court was staffed

permanently with a public defender who at that time was roger sanborn district attorney who at that time was brian Jamaar, a bailiff and I can't remember his name and a probation officer. Wiley was his name and Al McMahon. Well, Petaluma court was monday and Tuesdays where

the arraignment and and those matters. So you go into court in the morning for the arraignment calendar, It would be full like arrangement calendars are, but about 11 30 court at 12. There'd be a recess called for lunch. Uh, whoever was still in the courtroom lawyer

wise would be part of the lunch and we'd all go into the back and the bailiff would put a Hawaiian shirt on over his brown sheriff's uniform. And we'd all get in cars and go down to the little hill on main street peddling boulevard or main

street then. But petaluma boulevard for lunch and it'd be a big communal table with a lot of eating and often a lot of drinking by those who who who drank. We'd get back to court always late at for the 1 30 calendar and there'd be people

sitting there waiting for the 1 30 calendar and the bailiff almost automatically would go into the courtroom and say you have to understand that a lot is done in the courthouse other than in the courtroom. And so the judge has been in the back meeting with

the lawyers in relation to the cases that are going this afternoon and then we'd all go back in and finish the calendar with, with that situation, Wednesday's was Sonoma day and we go to court in Sonoma on Wednesdays. And then the court was in the upstairs

of the brick or the rock building in the center of the Sonoma plaza. And uh so two things would happen on Wednesdays. First of all, there again would always be a lunch at the lunch break at from different places. But the other thing that was interesting

at that time because a lot of people came down from santa rosa for the, for the court in Sonoma, there was a great bakery right downtown in santa rosa, I mean in in Sonoma and it was at that time one of the few bakeries in California

that stayed open on Wednesdays, which used to be the bakery closing day because they sold so much bread that people would bring baskets and bags of bread back to the courthouse to santa rosa on Wednesdays. So it was also bakery day besides court day in in

in in Sonoma. And uh you know that Thursdays and Fridays were whatever. Sometimes there would be trials or prelims or things other times, I don't know where Al McMahon went on those days. I I wasn't there very often with that, but that's how that court system

was, you know, and the superior court was just a good old boys group, uh who you knew was very important. Uh Judge judge Well, well, yes, judge wise and otherwise. What what, what experts you brought in for your trials was very important. If the, if the

judges knew them, it would make it, not that they were unfair, but they, you certainly got to do a lot more uh in relation to who was known and everybody knew everybody. I mean the bar was very small. No one had a hidden reputation at that

time. It was all right on your sleeve and and everybody knew it. So before we get to the spirit court judges going back. Did you have any experience at all with the justice courts. Well that's what, well they were still, they were no longer justice courts

where they were, they were all Munich courts, but at that time there was still a court house in Guerneville, Healdsburg and Cloverdale. Uh, I didn't know about them until I became a judge myself and got on that circuit. But there were still remnants of the old

justice court that still operated uh, during that time. So going back to the Petaluma court, what was it like when you go into court? I understand the lunch, the lunch break, all the work was done. Um, what was it like just in the courtroom? I mean,

was it, was it fair, did you get fair results? Probably no judge was fairer than Al McMahon. He knew everybody in the South County. He knew their families, he knew, he knew their histories and you know, it was the way that I think everyone ideally would

love to see a court operate uh, with a small population and, and a known commodity. But I don't think, I have never heard anyone who questioned the decisions that Al McMahon made as a judge. I mean, it was, it was a good, a good situation and

a good system. He had had a background in the seminary and didn't become a priest, but he spent quite a few years in the seminary. So a lot of his philosophy of justice and fairness was related to that background that he had and he, he was

very close to law enforcement. I mean very close, in fact, I remember his car and I don't know if it was his car or at that time a county car, but he had one of those Hawaii 50 kind of lights that you could put your arm

out the door and put it on the so he could rush to accidents and things even though he was, he was the judge. But he he had some privileges that a lot of people have never had since when it, when it came to that. Now. Did

you get into the spirit courts in the early days? Yeah, from from from time to time, mostly on civil. Yeah, I don't think I ever tried a felony criminal case. Uh but I remember, I mean there may have been some, but but I can't remember any

right now, but in civil cases on a on a pretty regular basis, not not as not as much as as a lot of other lawyers probably did, but there were there were certainly times when I would be in the in the spirit card. So going down

the four civil judges when you first started practicing, if you have any memories about that, it would be, we'd love to hear it well. Uh just trying to think through, I had very little contact with Moskowitz, I don't know if I ever really was in his

court. I mean, I I knew him as a judge. Um but other than that, I don't really know him. Uh you know, joe Murphy was a ST of a judge. Uh I'll get probably very parallel to McMahon with a different presentation. But when you went into

joe Murphy's court, you knew that he would listen and you knew that the decision he made, he mean, it, it was thought out by him and had a had a basis that, that it was right, whether he was for you or against you in the conclusion,

you knew that the decision was right when, when he made it, um you know, they're, they're, they're uh link man was just a good old judge. Uh you know, I don't know how, what more to say about about him. I mean, he had his foibles too.

I mean, I think he had his downtown runs uh at lunchtime that I, that I remember, although I was never really a part of him, but uh and then, and then ken Inman was either loved or hated, ken Hyman, he was a sweet man. I mean,

he was a real gentleman, but he was the one I think of all who best liked being a judge. He, when he wasn't in court, he was still a judge and that, that was kind of a difference between Murphy and May and, and Moskowitz and, and,

and ken Inman, but, but it was a good bench, I mean, it was, it was a very good bench, I don't, I don't think anybody at that time would say, oh heck, look what judge I have to go to on this case. They were, they were

all fine judges uh and and had been judges a long time when I, well, I guess probably Moskowitz had been there the least time, but they had all been judges a long time when I first started coming to court. And it was, it was, you know,

they each had their own secretaries, they each had their own offices there where you know, you, your contact was normally with the judge's secretary a long time before you ever got into the courtroom and, and she would control what went in who got to talk to

the judge and they were very good at what they did, they were very good. How did the bench change from the time you first started practicing? Well, it got bigger. Um that was, yeah, rex aider and, and bill Boone and it was, that was about the

same time I became a judge, I don't know if it was like 76 to 78 or so when the, when the superior court expanded the courthouse got kind of jerry rigged into some other courtrooms. Uh but I never had judicial contact with either with either judge

Boone or judge Seder because I was already a judge myself about the same time they came in and so um you know from there on things just got bigger quickly. That's what the real change was in the court. Um, we'll get back to that actually, why

don't, why don't we spend a minute and talk about how you became a judge? Well, you know, as I said, I was a lawyer doing criminal work from time to time because of the court activities and one day we'll first album man died. Um, and the

seat was empty for quite a while and I was very active politically at that time. Um, and generally known as a, as a political activist. And some people had asked me if I was interested in the judgeship and I said, no, I had a, had a

good partnership, a good law firm with, with four really good lawyers. In fact, at that time there were five lawyers at, you know, Frankie office and I wasn't interested at all. One day I was in a criminal proceeding at the pendulum in court and the judge

who wasn't Alle McMahon, he had already died, angered me by some of the things that occurred in the courtroom. And uh, that's the night I went back to the office and wrote one of those letters, you can only write when you're really angry. And I wrote

it to the governor. And effectively the main part of the letter was that I wrote it, if that's the best these judges can do, make me a judge and I'll show you how a judge should do it. And uh at that time there were no jenny

commissions or any of those type of things and I really did nothing more than that letter. Um and I'm sure activities took place jerry Brown was was governor then um I remember meeting with somebody one time in sacramento maybe a couple months after I wrote that

letter, heard nothing until No, I think Klein was came Klein was part of my second appointment. I don't remember if it was, I mean I wasn't paying any attention then to be honest with you uh at that time, but I don't know for sure it was

client in in that in that first appointment in 77. Uh but it was April just Before my birthday April of of 77 I got a call from the governor which I didn't take because the governor wasn't going to call me and then the secretary said no

you better take this call. And the call came in on the intercom and someone said the governor's on the phone. Yeah, yeah. And you know, I remember where I got the call in the back of my mind, I may have been at the courthouse in Petaluma

but wherever I got the call and it was jerry Brown on the phone and he, he said I'm gonna take you up on your challenge and see if you how you can do as a judge. And after the brief conversation I said well I want to

talk to my wife about this and he said, you can't, I've already announced it to the newspaper. So, so at that point I was a judge uh and that was april, I think it was probably june or july before I took the bench clearing up my,

my practice and things. And I got assigned to basically what was department for, which was the traveling court of Al McMahon. So it was monday Tuesday in petaluma, Wednesday in Sonoma, thursday friday. Usually petaluma except one day a month. I go to either Granville Healdsburg or

Cloverdale um amazing courtrooms. Uh Granville was somewhere, it was a room off of the Sheriff's substation in Greenville just and we do traffic and small claims their heels. Berg had kind of an upstairs room in a little shopping center that's right across the street from the

raven theater. I still remember where it was. You'd walk up these cranky stairs and there'd be, and I really think that was probably um frank castle was original courtroom when he was a Justice court judge in in hills Berg and then Gern ville. I have no,

I've, I've even tried to remember where it was, but that was called the abalone calendar because almost all there was in Greenville were fish and game violations and and it would be once a month you have this little calendar there, you would go out with a

bailiff and there'd be a few people there and, and and, and I don't even know who was the clerk whether they had someone who was there full time. They must have, who took filings and and processed tickets and things. But it was, it was a real

circuit that uh went through there. Um then I did that for a year or two and then the Sonoma City Hall where the courtroom was upstairs in the, in the city hall had a fire one day. Uh and the building burned substantially. It didn't burn down,

but it burned substantially. And I remember getting a phone call from the city manager call me saying bill, you better get over here to the Sonoma court this morning. And I said, what's going on? And he says, well the the court or the city hall burned

last night and Raeburn is here taking the furniture and and I don't remember if Rayburn was already a judge then or was only a district attorney but I had to run over to Sonoma to to save the the oak chairs and oak furniture from being removed

from the facilities and from there for a short time we moved up to like a veteran's building or something uh on the east side of Sonoma where we shared space with a meeting hall where on Wednesdays was aerobics day and so we'd be holding court, I'd

be the judge and in, in the Sonoma court listening to this music through the thin wall of, of people doing aerobics during the court and you have to stop the proceedings from time to time while the song change the one that wasn't quite as loud. It

was quite a unusual situation that didn't have a lot of judicial atmosphere but in Sonoma that wasn't that important. It really wasn't that important in Sonoma, which was again, you know the the court where everybody knew everybody. Um where the, the regular lawyers were there, the

the Sonoma batch, most of it was minor criminal, drunk driving things, uh alcohol related was the major activities where a couple of the lawyers would sometimes be a little more loop than their clients were when they came into court, but everybody, everybody knew everybody and it

worked out fine through there. Um So I, that was the first, when they built a new courthouse in Sonoma. That was the first courtroom that I helped design. And as I'm thinking now I have probably designed four or five courtrooms. It seemed as I moved through

my career, it was always into a new spot and a new courtroom had to be put together um because it was 81. Well, first of all, sometime in this time the Munich court started to expand also and I know they added at least one more department

to the, to the Munich court and I think that's um yeah, it was just, it was just one, one Court Dick Day got appointed to that court. And so they started expansion in the courthouse in, in santa rosa and decided to consolidate the Munich courts and

so basically they closed Petaluma Sonoma. I think the other three had already been closed by that time and moved everything back to to santa rosa. Wasn't that politically sensitive for the people in Very, very much so very much so. I'm trying to remember who the supervisors

were at that time um might have been a big fella but but but I mean I I really don't know how it was done. I mean I wasn't a part of that but I do know someone took some some real guff from a lot of local

people when when that happened and I I wasn't in favor of it. I I enjoyed the the gig that I had because you know I could sit from my house which was up on a hill west of Petaluma and looked down at the, at the court

parking lot and and see what was going on there and things. I do remember one day it was a saturday and I was on a tractor up at my house and I looked down and I could see people milling around the front of the courthouse and

I remembered that I had had a wedding that I was supposed to do that day at the, at the courthouse that I had totally forgotten. So I had to quickly run into the house, throw on some clothes without even taking a shower and and and get

down to the courthouse to do that wedding. I promised these people to do, but that was part of the small town, part of what was, what was going on there too. So I think that was was Munich court, we built the new courthouse in Sonoma and

then closed it. Uh and Petaluma already had its courtroom which I think is still there. I mean it might still do some activities there at the, at the Petaluma court, not much, but it's still there. Yeah, so that was, that was Munich court. Not not too,

oh there is one other thing that I edit my first day as a judge and came up to santa rosa to be sworn in and ken highland took me aside and he gave me the best advice that anyone has ever given me as a judge. He

put his arm around my shoulder and he says bill, remember if it involves dogs, Children or mobile home parks, be careful. And and I think it was wonderful advice for, for for a judge. So, and I guess I, I don't know the, the, do you want

things about how the interior of the Munich court ran with the two secretaries and things, you know, that was Allison Carlene were the Alice Tewksbury and Carlene clawson were the two secretaries to all the Munich court judges. Uh and best friends of all the lawyers who

again like the system was when I started, you went through them to get to the judges and uh they knew everybody and everybody's business and it worked pretty efficiently that way. Um we were all kind of clustered in that little quad that the various offices came

off of around it and it was a pretty tight group of Munich court judges. So 81 I guess um They expanded the Superior Court again at that time there were 6 uh They expanded the Spirit Chord again and who are the six at the time? I

think brian Jamaar had replaced Moskowitz in a contested election whether john Gallagher had had taken over for link man yet at that time, I don't remember uh it was about the same time, in fact in fact Gallagher might have been elected the same election Jamaar was

uh so so at that time then it would be Gallagher um still, I mean Jamaar and um Murphy and then rex Seder and Bill boom, those were those were the six judges there, so I was appointed as Department seven of the Superior Court with no place

to go. And there was at that time I think a jury assembly room. Um there were the two small courtrooms on the back of the hall facing the new sheriff's office and then there was a jury assembly room and that was decided to become department seven,

which was the second courtroom. I had to work with county, whatever department was to build that out. So that was my courtroom there for A number of years, starting in in 81. Um Then it just the courts just started expanding more and more. There were a

couple more Munich court open up while I was there. We then opened two courtrooms over in what was the old State Farm building, which is the same set of buildings where the courtrooms are, where the two courtrooms are now. But in a different part of the

building we had built out to more courtrooms there. Yeah. In that, in that building there it wasn't the one next to it. I don't know. Yeah, it was, it was the southernmost building, not the northern building where the, where the courthouse is now. Uh I guess

maybe that's some credit credit credit union building. But it originally was State Farm and then it was the medical H. M. O. Health. That's that's where we rented it from. But the story goes there when State Farm left we could have had, we, the court could

have had that building um Hugh cottin who owned the building offered it to the county and for some reason the county didn't want that building and you can see what's happened since on the, on all the rents and things again, I don't know the internal side

of what went on in relation to that. But I do know Hugh cutting offered that building to the county when state farm left before health plan of the redwoods came in. But another one of those decisions that didn't quite pan out. But you know, when you

mentioned that you had some involvement in the design of some of the courtrooms. Remember Judge Seders department was allegedly sort of copied after a courtroom in the round and George and I don't know whether it all worked out or not, but I remember it had some

unique characteristics to it that were different from the other room, which was terrible sound. Yes, it had a dead spot right in front of the jury that happened also in marin County. It still does. I mean I practiced in marin County. There was also a place

in those round courtrooms in marin County where the room went silent if you stepped into them. I mean the strangest, strangest acoustics of it. But yeah, that's, that's why we didn't copy those two courtrooms when Department seven was built, which was built into a more traditional

court there. Um, but while I was at the main courthouse there, there was a, you know, again was a growing court where we were going through all different kinds of calendar ring activities. We never really got, I think at that time to direct cal injuring, but

there was still a master calendar, but people were doing almost everything. There wasn't a criminal department in the civil department if you were, if you were available and alive, you had something, something to do, uh, in the, in the court side. And so we all did

everything um, worked out fine for me. I mean he didn't ever got bored, but you know, there are calendars that, that I always like, I mean I, I liked arraignment calendars. I liked people calendars. I mean I I, I enjoyed the big courtroom and the moving

a lot of people through those calendars. Uh, I mean all all parts of it, then we're fun and interesting. I, I did have my favorite calendar though. And that was, it was on Fridays. I don't know if it was two Fridays a month or every friday

and it was the district attorney's family support calendar where deadbeat dads primarily would get brought in by the D. A. For their non payment of support. And when we started that calendar, I was, or the calendar was assigned to young lawyers, a public defender and a

district attorney and the public defender was Stephanie joy and the district attorney was Cynthia dentals, both who became commissioner judges later on in their career. And when we started the calendar, I took the two of them aside and I said in this room in this calendar

only there will be no bill of rights. I said, you, you folks, you folks can do what you think you need to do, but, but work with me on this. We're not gonna have a bill of rights. You stop me if it goes too far, but

we're gonna work this. So it's efficient and it does what it's supposed to do. So we bring in these, I mean are they calendar these, these various people and there were a couple of rules quietly and internally. If a deadbeat dad brought in his girlfriend to

watch him when he was there making his excuses for not paying support, he would pay, uh, either either, either he would be sat in the courtroom to the last person was called or he would get called up and be in effect arrested and placed in the

holding cell to the end of the calendar until he came out and then was agreeable to do something support wise. I used to have a, a jar on the front of my desk that was full of toothbrushes and when a person would come in with this

long excuse and not having paid support, I would hand to the bailiff and the bailiff would hand him a toothbrush and I'd say this is just a reminder. I want you back here at 1 30 this afternoon with $200 if not you're gonna be using that

toothbrush for five days in jail. So carry this with you while you're trying to get that $200 for today and things like that would happen that, that there were two that I remember the most you realize I wouldn't be a judge anymore if any of this

happened now in courtrooms, but had one fellow who came down periodically from Mendocino County and he was living out in the woods and one of these off grid places and talking to him one day about, you know what he did and why he didn't have any

money. And he, and he mentioned that, that he raises pigs and I looked and I said pigs, ham comes from pigs, don't they, doesn't it? And he says, yeah, it does. He says, okay. I said every six weeks I want you in this courtroom with a

ham for your kids. And he did as long as I was there, he did that every six weeks brought a ham to the courthouse to give to his family, another fellow and this was a kind of a notorious situation. He walks in wearing either either snake

or alligator boots and a big silver belt buckle and he had no money at all. That's why I wasn't paying support. So I chatted with him for a while from the bench and looked at him and says, you know, that's quite a belt buckle you have

there. He says, I said, I'll give you 50 bucks for that buckle right now, that will be some money for your support. And I said that's a great pair of boots that you have, I bet someone here in the courtroom would, would offer to buy those

boots from you. Does anybody want to buy a good pair of boots? And you know, he just kind of looking at me and I said, well tell you what, rather than selling your boots and your buckle here now, I said, you come back this afternoon and

I set some dollar amount with X dollars and you can keep your belt and your boots came by that afternoon with Nobel wearing flip flops and the amount of money that I told him to come and that there were a couple of other things and and

this I didn't really realize till after I had left my bailiff who was ever narrow, who was with me the whole time, I was a judge, both mini court and superior court um recognized that in that calendar and actually in other calendars to if I lean

back and cross my arms, the guy was going to jail. I mean it was, it was, that's as far as I was gonna listen and at some point when he stopped talking, I was gonna put him in jail. So if when I lean back and cross

my arms ever, would quietly get up and we're behind, get behind the person knowing what was going to happen. Uh well one day for whatever reason, the calendar got called in one of those round courtrooms that we were talking about that, I wasn't used to uh

I think that was Arnie Rosenfeld's department at that time and it was a typical calendar and I crossed my arms and leaned back as the chair went all the way over and I disappeared. Well, as I'm pulling myself up over the edge of the bench ever

already has the guy out the door, I hadn't even said anything yet because he knew that that guy was gonna, was gonna go out for sure. But that, that was a fun Callum because it, what didn't have the structure, this, the structures or otherwise and and

it got the job done. And, and, and I know Cynthia and, and Stephanie and I still talk about those days when, when things like that could happen. And I guess justice was done. I had many conversations with Stephanie about those days about that calendar. Yeah, I

did what calendar? I did that calendar one day, the morning after my bachelor party before I got married. That was an interesting day in the courtroom. What my friends had had dressed me that night in a superman suit, which had, you know, was dark with a

big S and by the time I got home, I didn't have any clothes to put on and I had to go to court. So I put my robe on over my superman suit, the top of the S still show. And, and I also had no shoes.

And so I that morning sprinted into that curve so I could sit down behind the bench and started calling the calendar. And, and, and I wasn't too judicious. Our judicial at the time I guess I remember hearing in the in the atmosphere either Stephanie or or

or Cynthia say and this matter is gonna have to go to trial. And I remember looking up and saying, do you mean today as the two of them step back about two steps and said no anytime you want your honor. But that was that was a

if it wasn't for that calendar, I wouldn't have been in court that day. I know so nor did I get a letter from the commission on judicial performance that day. I did get one, did get one um steve turner and gale gale who had replaced me

in the Munich court. She took my seat when I went to the Superior Court or was appointed to my seat when I when I went to the Superior Court and I used to cook all the time for different charities and things. And so we got a

phone call from a mutual friend who was doing some promotional stuff and asked if if she could take her have some pictures taken of us in giants paraphernalia and with with cooking stuff in our hands and it somehow ended up as the front page of a

cutting town flyer for a cutting town sale and the commission on judicial performance or whatever it was called. Then wrote me a letter saying, have you ever considered ethics rule such and such, which was the rule relating to lending your name to commercial activities. And so

I on court letterhead wrote back. Dear such and such. Yes, signed my name and never heard a word back. They asked if I had considered it and I did. And so, but that was my only only contact with the digital performance commission was off of that

judge. Uh Superior Court judge from three month period 81. Too late 90. Was there a point where you were one of the youngest judges appointed in the state at Munich court level? But I was 32 when I got the call from jerry brown, I turned 33

before I got sworn in. But at that time I was the youngest Munich court judge. I know frank castle aka had been younger as a, as a justice court judge. But uh, I, to my understanding I was the youngest Munich court judge. Uh they still have

the 10 year rule For Superior Court. Yes, it wasn't from Unicorn in 81 I was had been a lawyer and a judge for 11 years. So I just made the The 10 Year Rule on the Superior Court side. But 1 1 thing I didn't mention in

my music or my early education as a Munich court judge. Um I um made a very controversial decision at one point. This is when there was some kind of a federal grant drug enforcement grant to Sonoma County and there was a helicopter fly over somewhere in

in the county where a large field of marijuana had been discovered, rated and the arrests were made and the manner came into me I guess at prelim stage or otherwise. And I made a decision in that case basically at that time the F. A. A. Flight

rules were that Over a populated area plane couldn't fly below 1000 ft and over a rural area plane couldn't fly below 500 ft. And wherever this was, it was clear that the sheriff's plane with the reviewing person was flying below the F. F. A. A. Rules.

And so in the prelim I ruled that it was an illegal search and throughout what was at that time the biggest bust of this whole federal program. I will mention that some years later the court of appeal changed that that rule or wouldn't have let my

order stand as I did at that point. Well, that started quite an uproar among the law enforcement side, primarily the sheriff's office and the deputy district attorney who had been assigned as and hired for that project was the aforementioned Rayburn. This was before he became a

judge. Well, he and then Sheriff Don street pick attempted to initiate a recall campaign against me because of that decision and they spent as politicians at that time did a lot of time in the rural areas of the county, the volunteer fire departments, the granges and

otherwise. Uh but unbeknownst to them, that's where I grew up. And they, they learned shortly that if they were trying to generate support for their recall against me and the person they were talking to called me billy, that they had no chance of convincing them of

the efficacy of their, of their projects. So that, that gradually died as they, as they worked a little bit harder. But they had, I mean there, I think there are still around some newspaper articles where they were trying to gin up support for that recall that

that never never took effect. But, but that was a lesson in, in politics of uh, I think on both sides of that equation. So what led to your decision to leave the judiciary to things. Um, the first was that it must have been 88 maybe. Uh,

for some reason I was doing a domestic calendar and it was over in the, the courthouse annex that we talked about before, over in the old medical building. And it was a very heated family law matter and tempers were pretty high. And so at the end

of the proceeding, I asked the husband and the husband's lawyer to leave the courtroom Asked the wife and her lawyer to stay in the jury box for a while. I just didn't want them to meet outside the door of the court and the doors of that

court opened to the exterior, there wasn't an interior place in there. And so about 10 minutes past as I did some other things and I nodded over to the lawyer and his client that they could leave now and as they were walking out of the courtroom,

the husband shot both of them. Neither were killed, but they were, but they were both seriously injured. And that was a rather hectic day. He had gotten away and, and I, and I know couple of things happened that day. Uh I heard later from my wife

that she was, she had been shopping and came home to our house and was in the house unloading her groceries or something when a sheriff's officer broke in carrying a a an assault weapon because when he, they went to my house not knowing where the shooter

had gone and the garage door was open and the door from the garage into the house was open and they didn't know what had happened there. And so they just broke into the house or ran into the house uh to see if everything was right there.

Also later that day I had gone home and and everybody was still obviously very shaken up and she and I had driven somewhere and I remember we were in a parking lot. I don't know if it was a parking lot cutting town or maybe down at

Costco or something. And I'm listening to the radio and there's a an interview being done made with the sheriff and one of the reporters says, and I assume that that judge, that nellie is, is under protection now. And the sheriff said, certainly we are taking care

of of all of that. And I remember looking around the gale said, you happen to see our protection somewhere around this parking lot this afternoon. But that was, I mean, but that was the first thing. It it made me wonder the worth and value of what

was going on there. Shortly after that, there was a brutal mass murder. The a fellow killed his wife killed his boss, killed his daughter and tried to kill his second daughter, dumping both of the, of the Children in the dump at the at the dump and

one of one of his Children survived. And that case, it was assigned to me. Maybe I can back up a little bit here because it's very important In probably 84 85, I was presiding judge and I am let the clerk's office know that as presiding judge,

I wanted to be in charge of the financial side of all death penalty murders, the payment, public defender or private counsel, investigators and otherwise. And I don't know if it exists now. But at that time there was a statute that the judge who did that could

not work the case could not try or be involved in the case. So I did that intentionally to automatically exclude myself from death penalty cases because I basically knew from early in my career that if required to, I could never impose the death penalty on anyone.

And so I had protected myself for probably four or five years with that rule, a a good presiding judge took over in in about 88 or so. And finally figured out why I was never getting any death penalty assignments and cleared up that that matter down

at the clerk's office. And so I had been, so I got assigned this um this murder case. Um I went through some very serious soul searching ah because of how I felt about the death penalty and I remember having a meeting with joe Rattigan who was

an appellate court justice then who used to do a lot of his work at the coffee shop downstairs at the courthouse when he was working here. And and I you know, I joe had been kind of a mentor of mine through, through much of my career

and so I sat down with with joe and kind of laid out my thoughts and I said, well well what do you what do you think I should do? And he, I remember him looking at me saying he says, Bill, you've already made up your mind.

So I thanked him and decided I was gonna I was going to quit and and did and it was obviously time for other reasons other than that because I remember going home that day and telling Gayle that I was going to leave the court. And I

remember her line was what took you so long. So, so she also knew and and really I was, I was tired of the administrative side. You know, that was a difficult time where, you know, continuances were counted as a success. Uh calendars were kicked along, not

a lot was getting done, everything was rushed and crowded and I was I was getting tired of it. And so, um, I, there was one of these late year, late in the year planning meetings that the judges always had planning assignments for the next years. So

that must have been august or september or so of that year. And we were at a couple day retreat at a meeting and we had been through all the discussions and whoever the presiding judge was starting to make the assignments. And I remember speaking up and

saying before you do, I just want to let you know, I'm not gonna be here next year. And so that was the first word that anybody had had that I was leaving. And and so I left the end of my, I know I left first week

of january, so I don't know if that was the end of my term. Yes, it was because I had just been elected that year, probably in the primary of that year. And so I stayed through to the end of my first term, which left a blank

an empty term um to go. And I had no idea what I was going to do. I didn't have any plans. I just knew I wasn't gonna be a judge And 45, 44. Yeah, it must have been 45. I I had talked to several law firms,

mainly Bay Area law firms at that time. They were starting to set up branch offices here in Sonoma County and I had talked to several. In fact I had, I had committed to to go into one law firm when out of the blue, I got a

phone call from two Former judges from San Francisco or the Bay Area Kohli Fannin and um um dan Weinstein and they said they want to talk to me, go to lunch with me, so I had no idea who they were. So I went to lunch with

them and they told me about this new thing, they were starting in, in san Francisco called judicial arbitration and mediation service jams. And it sounded like A good thing. I had no idea what mediation was in in 1990. But um I decided to go there and

it was truthfully the best decision I ever made. I've been doing that now for 22 years Been doing that for 22 years and that's where we are right now. Any questions? You the only one I had were you kind of covered it indirectly. Were there some

content in addition of the recall effort that you mentioned. Were there any controversial judicial elections during the period of time that you are on the immunity in superior court. Yeah, quite a few. Because that was, that was an active time in relation to removal of judges.

I mean, I I already mentioned that um brian Jamaar defeated judge Moskowitz over a sentencing. I think that Judge Moskowitz said over a single sentencing in a career was the, was the real basis of that campaign. Um, Raeburn ran against Dick Day who had been appointed

at that new department and defeated him and that was just the liberal versus conservative run. Ray Giordano, a very good judge defeated jim jones at about that same time Within, within a few years there there were, there were three or four heavily contested elections that change

the bench a lot. Yeah, yeah, maybe maybe early, maybe 1980 around when, when, when Ray Giordano defeated jones. But I mean there there were at least three sitting judges um defeated. And I remember when that, I guess it was used to be february time where you

had to declare whether you were running for a seat or so. There were a number of champagne popping in the courthouse when certain of us had got no opposition. I remember a serious time with rex Seder when he was being challenged by somebody. Um, uh, when

that february date passed and he hadn't, no one had declared against him. uh there was one situation of mine, this is a story I should, I should mention here. Um I think it was it must have been when I was after I was in the Superior

Court because I think there was a one year or the next general election time after an appointment that you're on the ballot. And there have been rumors that a certain deputy district attorney was considering running against me. So one afternoon I went over to the District

Attorney's office and went into his office to talk to him and we chatted for a minute and I looked at him and I said, should my folks buy that new Mercedes? Yeah. And he looks at me, he says, I don't know what you mean. And I

said, should my parents buy that new Mercedes they're looking at. And he says, I really don't know what you're talking about. And I said, well listen, If you're gonna run against me, they're gonna give me that $40,000 for my campaign. If you're not gonna run, they're

gonna buy this car. And I would really like to let them know what they should do. And that's the last I heard of that uh that uh approach. Although I did uh at that time, the press Democrat used to have a little section of meetings and

things and I started publishing my weekly campaign meetings for my judicial, there never was a meeting but but just to kind of and, and and everybody sitting then was doing that, just kind of steering the political um, aisles a bit and that's one of one of

the things that I didn't like about the situation that I was in was that politization of the judiciary, I guess it's still going on, it still occurs now and it's, it's just not a comfortable place to be. Um, you know, my philosophy always was the day

I thought about the political ramifications of any decision I made would be the last day I would be a judge and I was able to live by that. The only thing I think we didn't cover was the relationship with the bar and things of that nature.

But were you involved with, uh, with any of the bar picnics or anything like that? Not as a judge, There's other lawyers you could talk to about those. Some have been more willing to address the picnics than others. But that was really before 77, that was

before I was, that's when the bar was small and all male except for one woman who never came. And it was a different time than also, even though it was the seventies, I considered it the post war period. I didn't know what war it was, but

it was the post war period. So there were a lot of liberties taken when I came up here in 82 came up to the county in 82 from san Francisco. It was a different time. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the numbers were so much smaller.

I mean you knew everybody's name and phone number. I mean there was there was a lot of conversation that doesn't occur now. I mean by by opponents and partners and it was just different. Small is easier and that's we I mean we went through a small

period where, I mean I don't think, I don't think any less justice was accomplished but its appearances were certainly different. I mean just just as a judge, a thing that's really changed. I mean christmas was a great time as a judge. I mean you get baskets

of things on your front porch and and invitations, two things that really truthfully weren't thought about then. As I mean I think the comment was if if a gallon of ice cream changes one of my decisions, I shouldn't be here anyway or or or or there'd

be the ST Patrick's Day feast and the and the that that different companies and things would put in and put on and involve the invite all the judges and dignitaries to uh there. But that's all that's all changed now. It really has. Is there anything that

you would like to add you have an address? No, I mean other than than although because what a lot of what I've said is is pretty light. I really have to underscore the respect I have for the judiciary and the judicial system. I mean, it was

the core of my life and it it is something that, that I'm proud of and I think everyone should be satisfied with as as that era, which has changed was still a valid and valuable part of a of the society here in Sonoma County. Is there

any advice you'd like to give to our current and incoming judges if it involves dogs, Children or mobile home parks? Be careful. Thank you very much. Judge. You know, it's over now, right?