00:00:00.040 - 00:00:13.530

If you're 18 days over your birthday, Charlie, I hope you know, so tell me what we'd like to do is we'd like to get your experiences in the wine industry. Would like very much to have your start, how you got into the industry and perhaps a

00:00:13.530 - 00:00:32.140

little background on your father and how uh, for once he came in Italy and his genealogical background, how many Children in his family and whatnot? So let's start with your father. His name. Oh fresh your name. This is charlie Schiavone in a meeting with uh Janowski,

00:00:32.150 - 00:00:51.290

uh, who's forgetting? And uh, we're in charlie's office and fostered in Healdsburg. So charlie. Uh, go ahead. Let's tell us first how you started in the wine business when you started and what brought you into the industry? Well, let's see. I started in when he was

00:00:51.290 - 00:01:10.640

on the ranch and Windsor, we had a small ranch, well we had 100 and 60 acres by the street of the, the location location was on brooks road. I'm about go 2.5 miles off the highway From Windsor in one on 1 highway describe the land. I

00:01:10.640 - 00:01:29.660

have a vivid recollection of the land is all rolling hills, very few flat spots and find it For about 30 to 48 of the new venues on the top build the highest, the highest hill. Do you remember the variety each other, the varieties that we found

00:01:29.660 - 00:01:53.270

it was turned down zinfandels and producer Being that those were the three main writer rapes at that time in 1930 or 35 and 36 was there. And I think it was there a vineyard on the land before you better land and pull stumps, dynamiting stumps and

00:01:53.270 - 00:02:11.960

then had it all florida. Mhm had all candidates that did the squaring off to plant the stakes, which I, There's something new. They had a chain with a little rum buttons eight x 8 who planted our opinion And they had to follow the contour of the

00:02:11.960 - 00:02:31.330

mountain so they would always stay eight x 8. That was a trick. And on the top mountains with was harder. We had done in my whole mm for the bar in it, loosen the ground up and put in about a quarter stick of dynamite and reconnect

00:02:32.940 - 00:02:52.870

building everything that was dynamited, grew beautifully enough sandstone, sandstone that time. Uh that's and then the reason that we went into the winery businesses that we could never find anyone. The buyer grapes. One year we sent our troops back east and we have to pay the

00:02:52.880 - 00:03:19.800

freight besides growing it and everything else. We were built for freight out of pocket out of pocket. Like san Francisco market was very poor. It was blood, it was too much risk in it, 1930. We have $50 grapes. The average price was $25 a ton, Wow,

00:03:20.540 - 00:03:44.620

In early first early frost damage the crop, 46.5 tons of dreams, Average price $23 a ton Net sales. $917 after the cost of picking how many acres did you have landed? You have to produce that charlie. Well, Trying to get a yield for 8-10. Well, it's

00:03:44.620 - 00:04:11.860

getting a yield. Per acre was not over 10.5. Mm hmm. Much more than that 1932 We've got 64.5 tons of great. Mhm. The cost of picking was $250. The average price for Zinfandels was $17 a ton. Average price for Allie County $9 a. Mhm. 1933. Early

00:04:11.870 - 00:04:40.460

frost again damage the crop, repealed the 18th amendment. That's something that sold to the hills. Berg wine Company at $42.50 a ton. Who's up? 45 tons, agree. Alright, 1934 prices went down again From 12.5 to $17 a ton. We had 100 and one ton and I

00:04:40.460 - 00:05:04.290

crushed to make wine. That's the year that I started to make wine for. And I made 15,994 gallons of wine. It costs a picnic, three minutes, $25 a month or $120, 1935 Price was working 12.5 to 15, 110 110 tons of grapes Crushed into dry wine.

00:05:04.300 - 00:05:26.420

16,000 gallons. I paid six cents a box for picking. That's neat to have those we get pictures of obviously we're ready for 1936. Cross hip frost hit of the spring. That's when we really got Prices from $18 to $20 a ton, 73 tons of great crushed

00:05:26.420 - 00:05:54.480

into wine produced 10,000 gallons of wine Cost of picking, calling and making wines. $150. No. Yes, that was the end of up. Oh then 1935 is where you come in now, 1935 wine sales sources. Catina brothers 10 cents a gallon. Total sales, $1,412, 19 36 soldiers.

00:05:54.480 - 00:06:18.500

Catina Brothers, 500 gallons of white wine, 13 cents a gallon martini wine company, 13 1000 yards. And I didn't put the price for some reason. Total sales. While you can subtract the total sales with $2,313 to get money for you at that time. Uh I couldn't

00:06:18.500 - 00:06:39.210

even pay taxes. Uh, charlotte. What did your name? Your winery. And where did you get the name out? Because it was a highlander highlander highlander was rolling hills and really apply. We must have been forced. It must have been in a warm belt because the grapes

00:06:39.210 - 00:06:55.180

with mature earlier than the one. The farmer mixture me. In other words, my grapes, I could always the name of the farmer. Next time we will inform. Mhm. And parolee. Minetti was on the other side of us there on the other side of the hill, which

00:06:55.180 - 00:07:15.320

is now the valve are in good. Good. Yes. so I get the story and that the castle actress had a mortgage on that A $30, $30,000. And they took it over in 19 96. I also made wine from my neighbors and I used to buy their

00:07:15.320 - 00:07:37.220

grapes. And here is an agreement that I made with Mr Richards, Alta Loma winery hereby agrees to give 90 gallons of wine for one ton of grapes. Mr Richards delivered me 15.5 tons Of grapes and 90 gallons and and I paid him once out he had

00:07:37.540 - 00:07:57.710

1000 395 gallons to be paid when sold. Then I sold it to 10 cents a gallon. They gave $139.50 50 15 tons of great. I'm not sure, but obviously I think that's great. That's that's what I have to warn you that we should at least get

00:07:57.710 - 00:08:25.200

me copies of that. There was another one in 1934 Mr Brovelli at the same nine cents a gallon. Mhm. Here's the permitting data as september the 18th, We crushed $197 of the grapes, 9850 lb 27.5 sugar. When Sarah. Alright, it started on the 18th of crushed

00:08:25.210 - 00:08:48.540

27.5 on the 19th of 29. Here's what we got stuck on the 20th. He went down to 20 on the 21st 19 The 22nd to 1522nd again I took it was nine and the 2035. is five And note I added H 20 120 gallons not enough

00:08:48.640 - 00:09:23.280

not enough stop fermentation of five. Why was the fermented then the grip from the old hill and top watches vineyard Wine produced 716 gallons. Promise £1,933. That's really interesting. You really are. Yeah that's it. Yeah you should try it sometime. Yeah. Mhm. And they said that

00:09:23.290 - 00:09:42.810

the ones that look like the kind of stuff that go in the museum, this is this was one you will admit it, this is wine. Yes it isn't the only the only thing that has had in here was mentored by self fight and the and this

00:09:42.810 - 00:10:00.450

was all groups that I have simple and bells and venice era that we mix it together. All right, here's another one 20. The sugar test 24 on october Over October she was just 24. I crossed it on the 12-24 on the 13th and went down to

00:10:00.460 - 00:10:21.850

20 on the 14th and went down to 19 On the 15th was under 10, The 16th was on the 7th and the 17th have gone to the 18th of zero. Uh huh one public the storage tank that was And I added H 20 added to correct

00:10:21.850 - 00:10:39.860

the sugar test. Innocent charlie is the vineyards still there today? Some of it is still there. Who won't mind happened? I don't know who to whom did you sell the property to Missouri? And he ran the wonder for a little while. Yes. And then he gave

00:10:39.860 - 00:10:53.570

up the buildings still standing. Building is still standing. It's all ruined but it's still standing now. The converted barn and that's it. So tell us about the winery. Tell us about the acquisition of the tank with the tanks that you had mentioned to me that we're

00:10:53.580 - 00:11:13.980

up at the we had Patton. Was it another reason why we started the why we when my dad had been in the machine shop in a wine manufacturing company. They're manufactured nothing but wind machine. Mhm. He had acquired the three partners. When But the other videos.

00:11:14.000 - 00:11:32.320

Soldier one. Very interesting there. The Hillsborough Machine Shop acquired it. There were both casts and they divided the oak casts between the three partnerships. Mr Ferrari got 1/3 of the cast which I think they're still up in his winery at the sort of like wine. And

00:11:32.320 - 00:11:43.920

I think that went on the road. I'd like to go up there and take a look at it. But I believe that that's one of them. Mhm. My dad mr Scanlon, he got his share out of it and Mr ross finally got his share out of

00:11:43.920 - 00:11:59.680

it but Mr often had no place to put him so he sold the bigger ones between Ferrari and scallions. And my dad had this big bond and we set them up there and they stayed there and they were almost on the verge of going you know,

00:11:59.690 - 00:12:12.890

I didn't spoil moldy and everything else but good care of them and they were nice. What do you think happened to them converted into firewood? To whom did Mazzetti something? I don't know who was that is older too. I don't know what happened to all the

00:12:12.890 - 00:12:31.860

rest of the equipment that was in there. In the meantime when the brakes got down to these low prices We decided and 1934 you're about to of course the whole place. So we got interested. But the window in Oakland which we're making thanks and we bought

00:12:33.040 - 00:12:52.980

three I think we've got six for many thanks. All knocked down. There were six of them 3000 gallons apiece. And we brought up two Large storage tanks for 6000. I mean I don't remember we had two or three of the 6000 gallon storage tank and we

00:12:52.980 - 00:13:14.850

had one or two, 3000 And we had about 51 oak casts. So when we with rack our wine we had coming down and it's really you know, Do you have any government records like the 698 because you saved everything and I thought maybe you have a

00:13:14.860 - 00:13:41.410

stable government record now when you say a label, I probably have a little wine bottled wine wine two the black and white Mark. Black and white market. Ray, what's his name? Ray Ray Santorini. Yes yes. And he listed seven door of Romeo and Romeo sarah. You

00:13:41.410 - 00:14:00.500

gotta start in Healdsburg. Right. He had he had a he had a grocery store that he started in Healdsburg. Where on west street we started on West street which billy is now Union Oil Station On that corner over the house it was a little house uh

00:14:01.720 - 00:14:21.240

where Harry bell. I used to live. The house of piper. No no no no. Where the present sporting goods shop of the Hillsborough machines now there used to be a house there. Right and that's where he started his started grocery store. And from there he got

00:14:21.250 - 00:14:48.120

bigger and he built the building right here. The commitment not the blue one right here over here. Oh no no what you want is now Up to Do. There's two buildings. Oh yes yes. Wasn't that a star? That was after after he after he wouldn't fill

00:14:48.120 - 00:15:06.870

you up with a crash in the 1929 market crash Romeo. Sorry had all his money invested in Transamerica and he lost everything, He lost his grocery store, he lost his warehouse and he lost his home. This warehouse is the one that you had acquired later. No

00:15:06.880 - 00:15:27.920

I didn't acquire Hilberg Machine shop. Put it up for him that's where he was shipping grapes and during a bootlegging days he was getting raw sugar. Mhm. It's interesting now we're jumping around here. That's interesting question is part of the whole it all kind of ties

00:15:27.920 - 00:15:43.100

in several times with the times that we were here. All right then, silly. I was selling bulk line to the black and white market. He would in turn set it up on his rack, people would come in there with their gallon jugs, fill up their gallon

00:15:43.100 - 00:16:02.430

jugs, about 35 cents a gallon of wine. That's what they should do today. But they're not doing it too much, too much red tape and and then it just gradually got well let's go back to it. He's the one we put up our tanks, we had

00:16:02.430 - 00:16:19.730

mr bellagio put erect all the tanks I helped you all redwood allred would help him put all the tanks up. Put off for many tanks up, he put the tanks up, I had them all linseed oil on the outside and the hoops around it was all

00:16:19.730 - 00:16:38.590

painted silver. That's just I remember also over why we had a dirt floor and we had the way we did the crushing we had a small hand pressure. My father had converted it in, put an electric motor and we would set the pressure on top of

00:16:38.590 - 00:16:54.330

the tank. I'm too by forest and from off the truck which we had a model t truck, take the grips of the boxes and dump it into the crusher right right up to the right inside the line, dump it right into the right into the crusher,

00:16:54.540 - 00:17:14.670

stepped right into the stems and all. And then the bottom of the crusher. We naturally had this wooden screen so that the palms when we drain it out, almost went up and wouldn't clog up the Mhm and punched it all down for many that was and

00:17:15.540 - 00:17:28.820

we had an old when that was true. We would take the from us out. We had an old old one was a pretty good sized press but you have to wind it by hand pressed a double accident that had a fast speed in the slow speed.

00:17:28.830 - 00:17:43.140

You go fast until I got to type that. You couldn't budget when you drop it already have a really on compound low pressure and it was a portable, it was no wheels that we move and get out of our way. So it wouldn't bother us. And

00:17:43.150 - 00:17:58.900

we also had, it's an old girl. One point I put my hand back and forth to of a two to operate in one on one side or the other and step on the board. This, I wouldn't jump up and down on you and put my hand.

00:17:58.900 - 00:18:17.510

And also dad converted an old Another old wine pump and we put a pump jack on it with electric motor. So it would be easier when we're pumping 6000 gallons that you promised faster. But we had all pumps, no subtropical uh positive displacement pumps in a

00:18:17.520 - 00:18:33.310

tropical popular to this one. It creates it changing, turns it all up so we didn't have that. And then the next year, why? We got a little bit more and dad, they were making coolers at that time. So we did get a cooler for our fermentation

00:18:33.320 - 00:18:52.060

water cooler, which was uh, they didn't know nothing, you know, uh still 35 36 listen to like we are today with all the refrigeration and ice and everything we have to depend on water. And I also made out of copper copper. The cause of copper, three

00:18:52.060 - 00:19:09.870

quarter inch, three quarter inch copper. The outside pipe is a three inch boner tubing and they had bronze jackets on each end, which was really a heated changer. It did keep the wine cooler. In other words, you try to keep it cool about what temperature do

00:19:09.870 - 00:19:27.410

you try and keep it? I really don't remember anymore. I'm just making the one, you have to keep it down below. It has to stay around about 60 at least don't get fired because during implementation would get And it would stop one if you're not careful.

00:19:27.460 - 00:19:48.180

Yes. What was the capacity of this wine again? Well, I had only one about this question, 1920. That was a lot about, I would say about $25 and finally had and I was so it was also both And the only chemical that I used none of

00:19:48.180 - 00:20:02.040

my software and stick sulfur when you clean out the tanks. We put a pan through the manhole, you put a pan, a sofa in there and you know, and then when you got all burned out while either you leave it in there, you cork the top

00:20:02.040 - 00:20:22.080

of your tank and leave it that way. I'm done charlie. Did you have any unusual experiences? And while you're making wine, any any anecdotes, interesting anecdotes? Oh yeah. I had one experience that really was an experience. We had just the night before there were crushed our

00:20:22.080 - 00:20:35.880

grips wine and we put it in a, when you close the doors, seal the doors in your cast, you put Tallo all the way around the doors and you see that to make it Tyson with luke. Right. So we put our tallow and close the door

00:20:36.110 - 00:20:50.100

and we had too much one. So we put We filled one of the 1000 gallons with warm. Why that we are just taken out of the for many thanks. It was still kind of warm you know in the morning I was walking up and lo and

00:20:50.100 - 00:21:07.890

behold I look out and here was a all rolled wind down along the side of the road there. I said, good God what happened? I opened up the door sure enough there was a wine schooling right out of that manhole where the leak through the Talent

00:21:07.900 - 00:21:26.110

and it was just squirting clear out across the window. 4000 gallons of wine that's going down. That's interesting, charlie probably used mutton talent when I didn't give a flavor. So we we had in subsequent years because that was a common occurrence. We would cut it down

00:21:26.110 - 00:21:40.360

with beeswax, beeswax had, we did that afterwards. Yes, that was true of most of us. We learned the hard way. You scrape that thing off of the 33 scraper then three or four of town and put in your hand and your warmth of your hand would

00:21:41.240 - 00:21:59.130

well soften up the talent. Maybe put a little beat around it and I guess I've either put too much or something when I pulled the shot it didn't feel right or the one the one that we had to call up the Internal revenue because we have

00:21:59.130 - 00:22:12.850

the loss of gallons of wine and they want to, they had to know where it went. So they saw going out there and talked it off and that was talking about the internal revenue. What was your relationship with him? Of course you had done some work

00:22:12.860 - 00:22:27.650

when I was a very good man, had a very good relationship because I knew Mr Bennington which was a chief here in santa rosa and he advised me to work with him to make plots and plans for different wineries and the first one I made for

00:22:27.650 - 00:22:47.270

myself I had to do it and he made me put it on clock and had never I had some trading at high school and took four years of mechanical drawing which I still have my instruments here. Uh huh. You don't believe it, You won't believe it

00:22:47.270 - 00:23:13.130

with you. Huh. I mean look at that about 65 years old child. Holy Mhm. Mhm. That's incredible. And he later on he made me, it doesn't make me but he advised me if I would do it for him with all of the ones that didn't have

00:23:13.130 - 00:23:32.590

anything and he taught me money honey what to do what they wanted. And it was very interesting. I did my own good all of it. A wine company on a just out of southern town here who ran the elevator then. Huh? I don't remember his name

00:23:32.590 - 00:23:52.630

but it was from Slovakia new york. Oh yeah this is from the vineyards to have it. And then I did roses winery up and john rose, john rose and Brazzaville and I don't remember if I did Pedro feliz or not, I'm not too sure but I

00:23:52.630 - 00:24:05.270

did a few of them and then I got too busy and I turned my what I was doing to LJ hauled around hall which was my buddy from high school and then he took it up and he did all the wine reports for the wine reason

00:24:05.740 - 00:24:27.310

made the maps for him and everything else because well he probably oh he would probably really have him, he'd probably have he was like I wasn't, he kept records of everything. Probably. It would happen. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What was you know we always talk

00:24:27.310 - 00:24:41.740

about the water supply. What was your water supply of the winery? And what about your disposal? Well we had the water supply alright, disposal being there was just plain water. We just let it run right down down into the we had a small creek there and

00:24:41.740 - 00:24:55.400

there was no contamination. There was nothing but just with plain water and nothing in the water. And the water supply. We had a well Which was fortunate enough to have plenty of water. We had a tank setting up on the hill and we had an average

00:24:55.400 - 00:25:10.980

pressure about £50. We had a 60 over 6000 gallons of water were pumped up a hill cops. And we had a pretty good line. We all had Dad was a killing that he always wanted. Mhm. Either two inch or inch and a half and two inch

00:25:10.980 - 00:25:29.450

main lines. We have plenty of water. Did you name your own label? I had, my own label was approved. What was the brand you remember? It was on the Alto Loma, alta Loma. And of course we have Zinfandel and that's the bottom line was the only

00:25:29.450 - 00:25:46.920

one you really bottled Zinn was the only one that you really bottled under your label. Under my lady. Everything. All the other grapes were blended in with the sin. That's why I don't think I would localities from what I would get up on the hill. I

00:25:46.920 - 00:26:10.200

get some zinfandels and then I mix it in with Sarah's or you'd, you'd mentioned charlie that you sold some white wine from? What was it? Do you remember the golden chances? We have golden casters? We had delish assets. We had some burger groups, we had a

00:26:10.210 - 00:26:27.040

ball, maybe it was about a ton white burger and that juice would come out of the boxes galore. But the golden shots that returned to a beautiful golden color and we also had some mission grapes. In other words, we have that. We had a flat in

00:26:27.040 - 00:26:43.240

there, but I don't know who planned it that way. But it was mixed up with a variety of groups that was out of this world had had mission. It had rosa peru, probably half the people don't know what it even looks like. And it had this

00:26:43.250 - 00:27:11.380

burger's had sweetwater and then we then what we did, which they're doing today. We've cut the stumps off and we stuck rafted all the odd varieties. That was what I can do that Probably 1932 33. We would cut it off the, at the ST George that

00:27:11.390 - 00:27:32.560

came up. So I got to pick off that and put four sides right on the stump and then started to come back up again with the new brakes. Do you remember how long it took to come back to a full crap would be two years. Just

00:27:32.570 - 00:27:46.810

got through doing that with some of their vendors and he just got through showing slides on it. He says it takes two years now. The other great that we planted took a lot more. We took about 4-5 years before we got a crowd because the only

00:27:46.810 - 00:28:03.900

fertilizer that we ever put on on the ground chicken manure, that was a that was just last for about a year and it was gone. You never do it again. But where did you, where did you sell your own label? And how is your marketing? Well

00:28:03.900 - 00:28:18.340

the only market got just one little grocery store that I hadn't santa rosa. That's it, that's it. That was the only thing because the rest of the wine it was too much bother and we'd sell it by balkan prince. Forget it. We have to help you.

00:28:18.340 - 00:28:37.670

Pretty real label. Wouldn't it sold the once daughter. That's it. Alright, charlie, let's go to some of the neighbors in the area here. What do you remember? Let's start with Olive better. What do you remember about it? Well the elevator was a very, my memory is

00:28:37.670 - 00:28:56.120

one of the first ones that I have. The reason for that was at home. The foreman that was running the winery and mr Ferrero Ferrero was the winemaker then he was boarding with us and our home where on West street. My dad had previously worked. That's

00:28:56.130 - 00:29:15.250

the same winery before he went into the machine shop. What year was that? He must have worked on the winery there around. I was born in 19 seven and born there. So he was working in the wind at that time, 19 7. Yeah, I was born

00:29:15.250 - 00:29:31.670

on paul street there and the house, my mother was a cook. So what laborers that was working in the winery? Dad didn't have enough money to. This is cute. My dad didn't have enough money to buy the wine. So he would have a couple of glasses

00:29:31.670 - 00:29:44.290

of wine before he came home to eat. So he'd have his wine. Mhm. At the table. And then when you get through eating that, go back to the wind and have another glass of wine at the wine. What part of Italy dead. Come on. That came

00:29:44.300 - 00:30:00.040

from the northern part of it. It's a remote area. And he'll be in a A machinist there at his young age when he was running about 17 or 18. He was an engineer at that time, engineering and steam. In other words, he was a boiler engineer,

00:30:00.280 - 00:30:25.070

but he was a mechanic. What part of your monthly do you know? You're right in the central part of it was all a bit of cultural country, it's all wine country. And then when he came here 1905 his uncle was a superintendent of Madrona, no vineyards,

00:30:25.260 - 00:30:49.690

what was his uncle's name? Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony. He was the son of uh your father's brother. That's right. His grandfather's friend that my father had four brothers. He came to America. One of them went to Argentina. The other one later on in 1910 or

00:30:49.690 - 00:31:09.150

11 came to America and one remained in. Yeah. Which my aunt is still life. How old is she? She must be around about 90 or more. And she's still in love with the brothers that came to America. Where did he land that? Well they all came

00:31:09.150 - 00:31:27.520

to san Francisco. They all came here to Hillsborough. My uncle arrest he came here and I believe that his first job was that the tennis was calling. Mhm. And he has Little records of when he was a machinist. He also was a cabinet maker. And he

00:31:27.530 - 00:31:44.800

turned to pay my father off for the passage was just run about $80. Made two large wardrobe which I still have. Is that so wrong about him? So your brother? Your father come up first and the rest came over. My father cable run about 9-205. You

00:31:44.800 - 00:32:09.290

worked. Yeah. Who's Alto madre? No, which was all vineyard, which is the paxton paxton ranch. The Pakistan ranch at that time they left Both of them and arrested. Came over here. He came around about 1910 1911th. Yeah 195. When my dad came over here. He worked

00:32:09.300 - 00:32:28.190

long enough and yet in the meantime he had left his wife. He married in Cortona varied in Cortona has left his wife and she was pregnant and they lost their first, she lost her first son through a miscarriage. He's buried in ITaly. So when they had

00:32:28.190 - 00:32:47.880

enough money He got set the money over for her passage to come from Cortona Cortona back to Genoa and from Genoa to San Francisco, the passage was $80. Come by boat all the way all five. That was before the Panama canal. No, no Panama went by,

00:32:47.890 - 00:33:03.600

no by boat from the new york new york new york to start an island immigration there they pinned a big long ticket and not knowing anything. And every time they go someplace they take part of the ticket until she landed in san Francisco. Alright from san

00:33:03.600 - 00:33:26.420

Francisco two. What the work at the Pakistan ranch at the cookhouse. She was the cook for the labors at the ranch which was on a little knoll with dr visas place about something. A little note on top of there and the winery came off the no

00:33:26.510 - 00:33:41.800

and the one that was in a little hollow there and the main house was on the other side. And Tony's wife was the housekeeper for the facts of the family. Tell us about Tony hears from the same region as your dad was in the same region.

00:33:41.810 - 00:34:03.940

Did he have any experience in winemaking in ITaly before he come out. I don't know. Dad never said I have two boys. There was charlie Scalia. And when was theodora Scalia was still alive, charlie's Kalyani graduated from the university California in 1915. Mhm. He tell his

00:34:03.940 - 00:34:17.410

brother is still alive, which would be your first cousin. How often do you see my name in the an official change? Oh, I see him. And he has a son too. He said, what does he do, charlie? He said he was a postman and he's a

00:34:17.410 - 00:34:32.550

real estate real estate. You spread a character. He's in real estate. Yeah, let's get back to Allah Betta. We just started talking about all of it. And your dad, have you stand there who owned Olive better with time at that time. The elevator was owned by

00:34:32.560 - 00:34:59.900

Bernardini and Franceschini. Older and Lawrence C. Was the superintendent or the manager of the winery? Enable Pereira was the winemaker. Did you have any experience in Italy? He was a better culture. He was trained, he was educated as an intercultural, he had a better cultural school

00:34:59.900 - 00:35:15.500

and I still have his books on the agricultural work that he did in 1889 I believe. That's interesting. I don't know where I got him. I got him in a box when you're in a Carson looks like this year. That's the kind of stuff that you're

00:35:15.500 - 00:35:33.640

looking for? The museum for that kind of stuff that would really fit in that. Beautiful written handwriting. Longhand. But what writing today's anybody. You don't be writing that stuff. You don't write like that anymore. Beautiful. Was the book about basically what all of all his experience

00:35:33.640 - 00:35:50.830

going to school with old school that he went into. I know about the phylloxera. Oh he's got a hold down that he was way ahead of time. That could be published his notes. Notes in there. That was out of this world. I find that I got

00:35:50.830 - 00:36:07.840

to find a three. I got three books. So yes, how I got to hold him? He gave it to me and I kept them all the way getting back to the elevator. One being that he was living with us Going, I would go there after schools

00:36:07.850 - 00:36:27.030

to make pin money. I'll probably get 10 or 15 cents to paint the hoops on the barrels that were shipped back east because Guardian Franceschini had a branch office in New York and they were shipped bulk wine. Yeah. Box cars. Thanks pete to their place in

00:36:27.030 - 00:36:39.200

the east. No, I'd like to win that. Want me again. I just saw it open the other day and I want to go in it because if I go in and close my eyes and walk down those steps, I can still see the barrels lined up

00:36:39.200 - 00:36:50.830

on the road. They're going out the back with the cars with the car back in there to run it up the ramp because there were two tiers high. They had one up on the ends And they put two x 4s and put the military on top

00:36:50.830 - 00:37:07.700

of that. There are two tiers, embrace them. They wouldn't break. When were you last in the wind? It's been a long time. They removed the second floor. The second floor without wondering is really unique because it has the fermenting room. Yes. And they would talk to

00:37:07.820 - 00:37:24.580

us by the way that all the equipment from there was all Healdsburg machine company equipment crusher must pumps and all the pumps and then pumps the wine to the top into the fermenting tanks and the wine would be drawn at below. No, no, they didn't need

00:37:24.580 - 00:37:39.800

any pumps, pumps that they needed was down in the downstairs and that one is unique because the walls are near space in between them there but Well two ft thick, all brick with a big air space in between the walls that's got one was as cool

00:37:39.800 - 00:37:55.290

as a cucumber in there. Another thing too about that one and then like I said, I used to go in there and then I was always a little kid. I was half mechanically minded, I would go around the back end, we're reaching was a cooper there

00:37:55.290 - 00:38:07.070

that would fix all the barrels that would come back busted and put in a new stage in it or make barrels and I like I used to go back in there and watch him assembly and putting them together, cleaning them and steamy. Um, I did that

00:38:07.080 - 00:38:20.480

to the boiler in there, put jets of steam in the barrel in there to wash them out and we put south suit and clean them all out. They had enough work for Ritchie is a cupid to fully employed employed course. That was the Ricci. It's simply

00:38:20.480 - 00:38:37.770

bought the property that is still there. With nothing about Yes. Uh huh. Which is behind the property riches there, there's an old stone quarry that used to cut blocks with san Francisco. I've seen it, I've seen uh getting back to how do you talked about Mardini

00:38:37.780 - 00:39:00.990

and Francis, Lawrence, Seanie and Francesco. How did Franceschini come in first, it was Giardini and Lawrence scene. No laws french North Sydney was efforts and they in turn would buy their grapes from the frei Ranch. The Bar Ranch, I believe. If I'm not mistaken then maybe

00:39:00.990 - 00:39:19.290

Lawrence, it could have been on the front ranch, I don't know. And when they put the winery up around 1910 or sooner, when that one was built, I think Lauren Sidney came to the winery. That is when the fried winery was built in 1910. On friday,

00:39:19.290 - 00:39:34.730

there was no wind, no wind, no, yes, there's still, there was selling great, yes, the one that I think was built up there later during the progression and everybody went to pot. Oh, the winery fry. Brothers winery was built. You thinking I gotta get ahold, I'm

00:39:34.740 - 00:39:51.170

going to get a name, I get a charm or Andy fry because let's see, I got to get it. So check this used to be up there. Yeah. To search any brothers, William had the leg cut out and one of them was working for the performance.

00:39:52.070 - 00:40:05.470

A Swett never the up on top of the hill was a big cookhouse and sergeant is used to be the reason. I know because when I was at druids, druids, he was a secretary and I think I took his job over and I was about 20

00:40:05.470 - 00:40:24.740

years. I was about 20 years old. 21 like that. I have a the secretary for the druids at that time. Looking back to wondering. Yes, yes, yeah. But uh, so tell us whatever more you know about Oliveto then then, when did they sell to the Baron?

00:40:24.750 - 00:40:39.730

Well, the elevator cleared like that for quite a long time. And they also had a mama still and I used to love to watch pot still. The possibility that nick grandy and the gauge was always there. In fact at one time I had a whole set

00:40:39.730 - 00:40:57.700

of gauges and high barometers that I foolishly gave to the gala wine Ernest, you're Julia gallop when they were making wine when they were down there in the distillery. And I told judy that I had this, he said, would you bring them down to me And

00:40:57.710 - 00:41:11.830

I gave it to him. It was a little little box with all the, all the games. I've got one left here yet. Tell me I wonder if they ever have a big house throwing down or you probably have some judo is another one that looks really,

00:41:12.310 - 00:41:29.780

I haven't seen him for 30 years and I'm going to go down there and make a date with him and I want to see him. That would be a, that would be I'll find out when you find him up here again. I'll find out when he

00:41:29.780 - 00:41:46.250

comes up and go to lunch. I want to see him. Yeah, I'll find out, you know, he, he, he comes up frequently on his helicopter but uh, he doesn't like to go to a restaurant. So they have a little kitchen out there and they buy salami

00:41:46.250 - 00:41:58.960

and what not they do, they're eating out there. They used to go to the wrecks. They visited a super rank and I had seen junior son bob frequently at superman but he told me the last time I'd seen, which is now two years since I have

00:41:58.960 - 00:42:16.030

seen him, he mentioned the fact that they have a little kitchen there that they kind of make their own bob. Yeah, I'm making because him and I maybe we don't know each other that well what we did start. I remember him, but he had nothing. Yeah.

00:42:16.040 - 00:42:32.160

Oh yeah, nothing. Perhaps you hear no offices no bigger than this? Is that negative. That would be really interesting. And him and I know he would kid me all along and we would go, he was intelligent, he was seeing the picture on the wall, he started

00:42:32.160 - 00:42:45.700

buying farms right up to that. He bought a lot of ranches around Livingston, there were all grain fields at that time and when I get through at work, you know, he said come on, get his pick up and we'd go out rabbit hunting with a pick

00:42:45.700 - 00:43:02.110

up and he started picking up one. I mean you saw the writing on the wall? Really? Oh yeah, he was, he was the type of man that had CAhill make his first concrete tanks, all these things. The next year Julia was making the content of text.

00:43:02.800 - 00:43:22.710

That's right. They always like to do it themselves. He has I believe that Wilson Wilson is still, is he still there? His right hand man that he was making wine. Crawford. Crawford, right? He picked up charlie Crawford. Remember him when he came when he got him

00:43:22.710 - 00:43:38.530

at Davis picked him up from the telephone company. He spent charlie charlie went from Davis to tell a wine company because he picked him up there and like you said, if he's still there, he's still there. He picked him up as his winemaker. Right? Oh I

00:43:38.530 - 00:43:56.280

knew I knew Mr Keller too. But the rumor white, Yeah JB JB himself. What do you think was a big turnaround. When did yellow really become a popular or big name and wonder when did their volume really start to be that earnest with a good financial

00:43:56.280 - 00:44:15.880

madam. Uh right Julia, a good construction man and hard he could see ahead. He saw, he saw he saw way ahead of things like I said he was way, he saw the future that the one he couldn't, he saw that it was hard to get grapes

00:44:15.880 - 00:44:33.740

from their growers, you know, they were always not wanting to sell. So he would yeah sense enough to buy grapes like that. And also he would get wineries to make great for him and he would finance them where they couldn't you know, he was very liberal

00:44:33.820 - 00:44:49.970

and he was an honest man to answer this question. I think the second world war made. That's when they really started going today. Not even that he was, he was always on the goal. He was always were the other fellas with like robot, they either had

00:44:49.980 - 00:45:05.300

too much interference or uh what's the other one there? The sidewinder and then they got a bunch of cooperation we got in there you know, but he was always pushing ahead. He was always, he was a go getter. Let's face it, he was a go getter.

00:45:05.310 - 00:45:19.590

More than Ernest Ernest Ernest was the guy that had the financial end of it. You see that there was plenty of money around for Judah to operate on where did they, where did they get their money. How did they get money? Well they were very economical

00:45:19.590 - 00:45:36.740

workers In other words, the economy was password. Let's put it that way. He would not waste a nickel. He would not waste no lumber. He would not waste nothing. Well everything everything was usable in other words on that is that is the secret to economy. Let's

00:45:36.740 - 00:45:57.720

face it. Even today today, if we back to gallery being that we had the program, they had all this brandy. The name of the game at the time was sweet ones. So they bought all this brandy in the state of California. Very very low christ. Then

00:45:57.730 - 00:46:19.990

you have the transition from both to taste grace. And during that transition they had the raw material which they live in there Then during the war years from about 42, we entered the war in 41 but uh about 40-1. They made uh alcohol converted their fruit

00:46:19.990 - 00:46:36.200

distillery into an alcohol distillery. And it was subsidized by the federal government with the molasses that they are important and the other products. And so being the main alcohol on a cost plus basis that really started to, but that's not detracting from their ability. They were

00:46:36.210 - 00:46:56.510

they were the best market. That's it. I think his vision, he was probably, we can see what he, what he has done. He's got his glass factory, their husband now. Yes. And he built up his buildings and kept kept to six. But he didn't go overboard.

00:46:56.520 - 00:47:20.370

He just was limited. He always did. Just went so far. If you're 18 days over your birthday Charlie, I hope you're yeah. So tell me what we'd like to do is we'd like to get your experiences in the lion industry. Would like very much to have

00:47:20.370 - 00:47:37.500

your start, how you got into the industry and perhaps a little background on your father and how uh for once he came in Italy and his genealogical background. How many Children in his family and whatnot? So let's start with your father his name. Oh, fresh your

00:47:37.500 - 00:47:56.920

name. This is charlie Schiavone in a meeting with uh, Janowski. Uh, please forget it. And uh, we're in charlie's office and for ST Healdsburg. So charlie. Uh, go ahead. Let's tell us first how you started in the wine business when you started and what brought you

00:47:56.930 - 00:48:15.590

into the industry? Well, let's see. I started in when he was on the ranch and Windsor we had a small ranch. Well, we had 100 and 60 acres identify the street or the Locational commission was on brooks road and about go 2.5 miles off the highway

00:48:16.470 - 00:48:37.370

from Windsor one on 1 highway describe the land. I have a vivid recollection of the land is all rolling hills, very few flat spots and find it. Robot. 30 to 48 hours of new venues on the top, build the highest, the highest film. Do you remember

00:48:37.370 - 00:48:59.930

the variety each other. The varieties of the counter was arrogant and zinfandels and producer Being that those were the three men were I raped at that time in 1930 four, 35 and 36 was there and it was there a vineyard on the land before we pull

00:48:59.930 - 00:49:20.520

stumps, dynamiting stumps and then he had it all claudia and we had all the candidates that did the squaring off to plant the stakes, which I, there's something new. They had a chain with a little rum buttons Eight by eight. The time of our vision And

00:49:20.520 - 00:49:38.090

they had to follow the contour of the mountain so they would always stay eight x 8. That was a trick. And on the top mountains where it was harder. We had done in my poles, you know for the bar in it, loosen the ground up and

00:49:38.970 - 00:50:00.200

put in about a quarter mistake of dynamite and they connect the whole the building, everything that was dynamited, grew beautiful enough sandstone, sandstone, that's fine. That's that. The reason that we went into the winery businesses that we could never find anyone to buy our groups. One

00:50:00.200 - 00:50:14.390

year we sent our grapes back east and we have to pay the freight besides growing it and everything else, we were built for freight out of pocket. Might not a pocket. Like san Francisco market was very poor. It was blood. It was too much risk in

00:50:14.390 - 00:50:46.950

it, 1930 we have a ton of grapes. The average price is $25 a ton Wow, in early first north an early frost, damage the crop. 46.5 tons of grapes. Average price, $23 a ton Net sales. $917 after the cost of picking. Mhm. How many years did

00:50:46.950 - 00:51:10.520

you have landed? You have to produce that charlie? Well, Trying to get a yield per 8-10. We was getting a yield per acre was not over 10.5. Mhm. Much more than that, 1932, we've got 64.5 tons of great A cost of picking was $250. The average

00:51:10.520 - 00:51:39.130

price was Zinfandels was $17 a ton. Average price for Allie County. $9 a Yeah, 1933, an early frost again, damage the crop, repealed the 18th amendment. That's something that sold to the hills berg wine company at $42.50 a ton. We've got 45 tons of great Alright,

00:51:39.140 - 00:52:03.280

1934 prices went down again From 12.5 to $17 a time. We had 100 and one ton and I crushed it to make wine. That's the year that I started to make wine. 1984 and I made 15,994 gallons of wine. The cost of picking three minutes, $25

00:52:03.280 - 00:52:25.010

a month. $120. All right, 1935 prices were from 12.5 to 15. 110, tons of race Crushed into dry wine? 16 gallons Paid six cents a box for picking. That's need to have those kind of things. We get pictures of all of us when we're ready for

00:52:25.840 - 00:52:46.560

1936. Cross hip frost hated the spring. That's when we really got prices from 18 to $20. A ton 73 tons of great crushed into wine, produced 10,000 gallons of wine Cost of picking holly and making winds $150 enough. So I guess that was the end of

00:52:46.560 - 00:53:15.020

up. Yeah. Oh then 1935 is where you come in now, 1935 wine sales. Social Slatina brothers 10 cents a gallon. Total sales $1,412 and 19 36 soldiers. Catina brothers, 500 gallons of white wine, 13 cents a gallon martini. White company, 13 1000 gallons and I didn't

00:53:15.020 - 00:53:38.710

put the price for some reason. Total sales. While you can subtract the total sales with $2,313. It's a good money for you at that time. Uh, she couldn't even pay taxes. Uh, charlotte. What did you name your winery? Where did you get the name out? Because

00:53:38.710 - 00:53:55.000

it was a highlight highlander highlander was rolling hills and really apart, we must have been fortunate, we must have been in a warm belt because the grapes with mature earlier than the ones for the farmer mixed to me. In other words, my grapes, I could do.

00:53:55.000 - 00:54:11.810

What was the name of the farmer? Next thing you know where to look for him. Okay. And Carly Minetti was on the other side of us, there on the other side of the hill which is now the valve Aaron. So I get the story and that

00:54:11.820 - 00:54:33.410

the Haselock had a mortgage on that. A $30 $30,000 and they took it over in 1936. I also made wine from my neighbors there. I used to buy their grapes and here is an agreement that I made with Mr Richards, Alta Loma winery. Hereby agrees to

00:54:33.420 - 00:54:52.770

give 90 gallons of wine for one ton of grapes. Mr Richards delivered me 15.5 tons. Mm hmm. Mhm Of grapes and 90 gallons. And I and I paid him worked out he had 1000 395 gallons to be paid when sold. Then I sold it to 10

00:54:52.770 - 00:55:12.320

cents a gallon. I gave $139.50 for 15 15 tons of great and that's your bottom line. Obviously I didn't get great. That's that's when I had the wind in the judge. Should we should at least get me copies of that. Here's another one in 1934. Mr

00:55:12.320 - 00:55:42.470

Brovelli at the same nine cents a gallon. Here's the fermenting data is September the 18th. We crushed 197 box of the grapes, £9,850. 27.5. Sugar started on the 18th of crushed 27.5 on the 19th of 29. Here's what we got stuck on the 20th. It went

00:55:42.470 - 00:56:04.100

down to 20 on the 21st, 1920 seconds. 15 22nd Again I took it was nine on the 2035. 24th is five And note I added H 20 120 gallons not enough not enough stop fermentation at five. Why? It was re fermented then the grip from the

00:56:04.100 - 00:56:35.570

old hill and top watches vineyard Wine produced 716 gallons almost £1,933. That really is interesting. You really are. That's it. Yeah, you should try to make some time for the records and they said that they wanted to look at the kind of stuff that would go

00:56:35.570 - 00:56:56.520

in the museum. Yeah, this is, this was wine. You would admit it, this is mine. Yes, sure. It isn't. The only the only thing that has had in here was mentored by self fight and the this was all groups that I have Zinfandels and tennis era

00:56:56.520 - 00:57:14.480

that we mix it together here. Here's another 1.20 the sugar test 24 on October october october sugar just 24. I crossed it on the 12 to 24 on the 13th. It went down to 20 on the 14th that went down to 19 on the 15th was

00:57:14.480 - 00:57:40.030

down to 10, The 16th was on the 7th on the 17th of down to 18 0. Uh huh. Why puppet? The storage tank that was uh And I added H 20 added to correct the sugar test. Mhm. Thank you charlie. Is the vineyards still there today?

00:57:40.040 - 00:57:52.540

Some of it is still there. Who won't hide it? I don't know who owns it but to whom did you sell the property to Missouri? And he ran the winery for a little while and then he gave up the buildings still standing, buildings still standing is

00:57:52.540 - 00:58:07.940

all ruined but it's still standing, you know the converted barn? That's it. I can tell us about the winery, tell us about the acquisition of the tank, the tanks that you had mentioned to me that we're up at the uh we have a pact was another

00:58:07.940 - 00:58:29.410

reason why we started the winery when my dad had been in the machine shop in a wine manufacturing company there that manifested nothing but wind machinery. He had acquired the three partners when Yeah, but the other vendors, soldier winery interest in there, The hills, berg machine

00:58:29.410 - 00:58:42.950

shop acquired it. There were oak casts in there and they divided the podcast between the three partnerships. Mhm Mr Ferrari got 1/3 of the old cast which I think they're still up in his winery at the sort of like wine and I think that went on

00:58:42.950 - 00:58:56.220

the road. I'd like to go up and take a look at it. But I believe that that's one of them. My dad Mr Skylar, he got his share of it and Mr Robinette got his share out of it but Mr often had no place to put

00:58:56.220 - 00:59:11.780

him. So he sold the bigger ones between Ferrari and scallions. And my dad had this big bar that we set him up there and they stayed there and they were almost on the verge of going, you know, I didn't spoil it. I mean moldy and everything

00:59:11.780 - 00:59:23.670

else, but we took good care of them and they were nice. They still do you think happened to them converted into firewood, to whom did Mazzetti shot? I don't know who that is. Over two. I don't know what happened to all the rest of the equipment

00:59:23.670 - 00:59:43.620

that was in there in the meantime. Where the rich got down to these low prices We decided. And that was in 1934. You're about to crush our own race. So we got interested. But the window in Oakland which we're making thanks and we bought Three I

00:59:43.620 - 01:00:03.130

think we've got six for many thanks. All knocked down. There were six of them 3000 gallons of peace. And we brought up to large storage tanks. So 6000, I mean I don't remember we had two or three for the 6000 gallon storage tank and we had

01:00:03.130 - 01:00:23.850

one or two 3000 and we had about 5 1000 casts. So when we would rank our wine we had coming down and still we get on. Do you have any government records like the 6 98? Because you saved everything? And I thought maybe so sorry I

01:00:23.850 - 01:00:45.340

have a I have a government record now when you say a label I probably had destroyed a little wine bottled wine and I saw wine in bulk to the black and white mark. Black and white market. Ray, what's his name? Ray Ray Santorini. Yes, yes. And

01:00:45.340 - 01:01:07.930

he was the seventh of Romeo and Romeo. Sorry, gotta start in Healdsburg. Right. He had he had a he had a grocery store that he started in Healdsburg on West street. He started on West Street, which really is now. Union Oil Station is on that corner.

01:01:08.170 - 01:01:26.470

Over the house. It was a little house in the where? Harry Bell? I used to live in the house of piper. No, no, no, no. Where the present sporting goods shop of the Hillsborough machine. Now there used to be a house there. Right, mm hmm. And

01:01:26.470 - 01:01:49.680

that's where he started his he started a grocery store and then from there he got bigger and he built the building right here you see Not the Blue one, cement right here, over here. Oh no, no the key word is now not the blue there's two

01:01:49.680 - 01:02:10.790

buildings. Oh yes, yes. Wasn't that a safe race start. That was after after he after he went belly up with a crash on the mark 1929 market crash Romeo, sorry, had all his money invested in Transamerica and he lost everything. He lost his grocery store, he

01:02:10.790 - 01:02:30.680

lost his warehouse and he lost his home. His warehouse is the one that you had acquired later. I didn't acquire it. Hilberg Machine shop. Put it up for him. That's where he was shipping grapes. And during the bootlegging days he was getting raw sugar. Mhm. That's

01:02:30.680 - 01:02:47.450

interesting. Now we're jumping around here. That's interesting question is part of the whole it all it all kind of ties in to the Times with the times that we was here. All right then selling was selling bulk wine to the black and white market. He would

01:02:47.450 - 01:03:05.230

in turn set it up on his rack. People would come in there with their gallon jugs, filled up their gallon jugs, about 35 cents a gallon, That's what they should do today again. But they're not doing it too much, too much red tape. Uh And then

01:03:05.230 - 01:03:24.150

it just gradually got well, let's go back to go wandering. We put up our tanks, we had mr bellagio, put direct all the tanks, I've helped you all redwood allred would help him put all the tanks up. Put off for many tanks up, he put the

01:03:24.150 - 01:03:43.440

tanks up, I had them all linseed oil on the outside and the hoops around him is all painted silver. That's how I remember. They're all silver. Why? We had a dirt floor and we had the way we did the crushing, we had a small hand pressure.

01:03:43.450 - 01:03:56.440

My father had converted it in, put an electric motor and we would set the pressure on top of the tank. I'm too by forest and from off the truck which we had a model t truck, take the groups all the boxes and dump it into the

01:03:56.440 - 01:04:12.260

crusher. You drive right up to the right inside the line and dump it right into the right into the crusher, stepped right into the stems and all and then the bottom of the crusher naturally had this wooden screen so that the promise when we graded out

01:04:12.270 - 01:04:30.230

the numbers went up and they wouldn't clog up the faucet and punched it all down with, it was for many that was right and we had an old when that was through, we would take the pumps out. We had an old, not an old one was

01:04:30.230 - 01:04:44.470

a pretty good sized press, but you have to wind it by hand, a ratchet ratchet press and a double action that had a fast feet in the slow speed. You go fast until I got to type that. You couldn't budget. Then you drop it already had

01:04:44.480 - 01:05:01.810

a really in compound low pressure and it was a portable, it was no wheels that we move and get out of our way so it wouldn't bother us. And we also had taken an old girl, one pump, I put my hand back and forth, two of

01:05:01.810 - 01:05:15.200

us to to operate in one on one side on the other and step on the board. This, I wouldn't jump up and down on you and put my hand. And also dad converted an old Another old wine pump and we put a pump, jack on it

01:05:15.530 - 01:05:33.190

with electric motor. So it'll be easier when we're pumping 6000 gallons that you want a faster. But we had all pumps, no centrifugal pumps, positive displacement pumps is a tropical popular that this is the way it creates a changing, turns it over. So we didn't have

01:05:33.190 - 01:05:52.300

that and then the next year, why we got a little bit more and that they were making coolers at that time. So we did get a cooler for our fermentation water cooler, which was that, they didn't know nothing, you know, uh still 35 36 listen to

01:05:52.300 - 01:06:07.880

like we are today with all the refrigeration and ice and everything, we have to depend on water. And I also made out of copper, copper, the cars were copper, three quarter inch, three quarter inch copper. The outside pipe was a three inch border tubing and they

01:06:07.880 - 01:06:25.210

had bronze jackets on each end, which was really a heated changer. It did keep the wine cooler. In other words try to keep it cool but try and keep it out. I really don't remember anymore, I'm just making you one, you have to keep it down

01:06:25.210 - 01:06:41.960

below. It has to stay around about 60 at least. You don't get your fire in the 60's because you're the fermentation. It would get. Yeah. Yeah. And it was soft. Wonder if we're not careful. Yes. What was the capacity of this winding well had only one

01:06:41.960 - 01:07:04.760

about crushed 1920. That was around about I would say about 25,000 I have. Mhm. And I was selling was also both and the only chemical that I used none of myself right? And stick sulfur when you clean out the tanks, we put a pan through the

01:07:04.760 - 01:07:19.910

manhole, you put a panel sofa in there and you know, and then we've got all burnt out. Why either you leave it in there, you cork the top of the attack and you leave it that way. Mhm. I'm done, charlie. Did you have any unusual experiences

01:07:19.920 - 01:07:36.770

and while you're making wine any any anecdotes, interesting anecdotes? Oh yeah, I have 11 experience that really was an experience. We had just the night before there were crushed our grapes wine and we put it in the, when you close the doors, seal the doors in

01:07:36.770 - 01:07:50.400

your cast, you put Tallo all the way around the doors and you see that to make it type that would leave. Right? So we put our tallow and close the door and we had too much one. So we put We filled one of the 1000 gallons

01:07:50.400 - 01:08:04.350

with warm. Why don't we just taken out of the for many thanks. It was still kind of warm, you know in the morning I was walking up and no one behold, I look out and here was a whole road wind down along the side of the

01:08:04.360 - 01:08:23.640

road there. I said, good God, what happened? I opened up the door sure enough, there was a wise filling right out of that manhole where the leak through the talent and it was just squirting out across the whole 1000 gallons of one that's going on. That's

01:08:23.640 - 01:08:40.750

interesting charlie and we have probably used mutton talent but didn't give a flavor. So we, we had some years of course that was a common occurrence. We would cut it down with beeswax, beeswax had, we did that afterwards. Yes, that was true of most of us.

01:08:40.750 - 01:08:56.270

We learned the hard way you script that thing off of the 33 scraper there three or 4000 putting your hand and your warmth of your hands would will soften up the talent. Maybe put a little beat around it and I guess I've either put too much

01:08:56.280 - 01:09:13.880

or something when I pulled it shut, it didn't feel right or the one the one that we had to call up the internal revenue because we have the loss of gallons of wine and they want to, they had to know where it went. So they saw

01:09:13.890 - 01:09:27.890

going out there and talked it off and that was talking about the internal Revenue. What was your relationship with him? Of course you had done some work when I was a very good man. Had a very good relationship because I knew Mr Bennington which was a

01:09:27.900 - 01:09:47.320

chief here in santa rosa. And he advised me to work with him to make plots and plans for different wineries. And the first one I made for myself, I had to do it and he made me put it on four and had never had some trading

01:09:47.320 - 01:10:14.230

at high school. Another guy took four years of mechanical drawing, which I still have my instruments here. Uh You don't believe it, you won't believe it with you. Huh. I mean look at that about 65 years old child hold it isn't that uh that's embarrassing, don't.

01:10:14.950 - 01:10:29.390

And here and later on he made me it didn't make me, but he advised me if I would do it for him. A lot of these ones that didn't have anything and uh he taught me what to do what they wanted and it was very interesting.

01:10:29.390 - 01:10:48.430

I did my own uh Oliveira wine company on a just out of southern town here. Who ran the elevator then? Huh. Mhm. I don't remember his name but it was from the back in new york. Oh this year. Yeah this is just around the vineyards to

01:10:48.430 - 01:11:05.440

have it and then I did roses winery up and john rose john rose and Roosevelt and I don't remember if I did Pedro feliz or not. I'm not too sure but I did a few of them and then I got too busy and I turned my,

01:11:05.450 - 01:11:20.980

what I was doing to LJ hall of alcohol, which was my buddy from high school and then he took it up and he did all the wine reports for the wineries and made the maps for him and everything else. She still with him because he had

01:11:20.980 - 01:11:38.540

some interesting well he probably, oh he would probably really have him, he'd probably have, he was like, I wasn't, he kept records of everything, probably billion would happen. Yeah. What's the paper? Yeah. What was, you know, we always talk about the water supply. What was your

01:11:38.540 - 01:11:53.180

water supply at the winery? And what about your disposal? Well we have the water supply. Alright, disposal being that was just plain water. We just let it run right down down into the we had a small creek there and there was no contamination was nothing but

01:11:53.190 - 01:12:09.290

just plain water and nothing in the water. Yeah And the water supply, we had a well which was fortunate enough to have plenty of water. We had a tank setting up on the hill and we had an average pressure about £50, We have 60 over 6000

01:12:09.290 - 01:12:24.560

gallons of water were pumped up on the hill house. We had a pretty good line. We all had dad was telling that he always wanted either two inch or inch and a half and two inch main lines. We have plenty of water. Did you have your

01:12:24.560 - 01:12:42.340

own label? And I had, my own label was approved. What was the brand? You remember? It was on the Alto Loma, alta Loma. And of course we have Zinfandel and that's about it. Jin was the only one you really bottled. Zinn was the only one that

01:12:42.340 - 01:13:00.810

you really bottled under your label. Under my label. Everything all the other grapes were blended in with Susan. That's right. I would the localities from what I would either get up on the hill. I get some Zinfandels and then I mix it in with Pero serra's

01:13:00.810 - 01:13:24.940

or you'd you'd mentioned charlie that you sold some white wine. We had, what was it? Do you remember the golden chances we have golden Shasta's? We had polish assets. We had some burger groups. We had maybe it was about a ton white burger and that juice

01:13:24.940 - 01:13:39.050

would come out of the boxes galore. But the golden shots that returned to a beautiful golden color. And we also had some Mission grapes. In other words, we have that. We had a flat in there, but I don't know who planned it that way. But it

01:13:39.050 - 01:13:59.800

was mixed up with a variety of groups that was out of this world that had could have had mission. It had rosa peru probably half the people don't know what it even looks like. And it had this burgers? They had sweetwater. Mhm. And then we then

01:13:59.800 - 01:14:29.000

what we did, which they're doing today. We cut the stumps off and we stopped rafted all the odd varieties. That was Probably 1932 33. We would cut it off the at the ST George came up with that, Put four sides right on the stump and then

01:14:29.020 - 01:14:46.300

started coming back up again with the new bridge. Do you remember how long it took to come back to a full crap? Well would be two years. Just got through doing that with some of their vendors and he just got showing slides on him. He says

01:14:46.300 - 01:15:02.830

it takes two years now. The other grapes that we planted Took a lot more. We took about 4-5 years before we got a crowd. Because the only fertilize that we ever put on our on the ground was chicken manure. That was a bassinet was just last

01:15:02.830 - 01:15:19.580

for about a year and it was gone. Here you are again. Mhm. But where did you where did you sell your own label? And how is your market? Well the only marketing just one little grocery store that I hadn't santa rosa. That's it. That's it. That

01:15:19.580 - 01:15:36.010

was the only thing because the rest of the wine. It was too much bother and we'd sell it by balkan Prince. Forget it. Mhm. But we have to help me. Pretty real label. Wouldn't it sold the one starter. What's up? Alright charlie. Let's go to some

01:15:36.010 - 01:15:52.740

of the neighbors in the area here. What do you remember? Let's start with Olive better. What do you remember about it? Well the elevator was a very my memory is one of the first ones that I have the reason for that was at home. The foreman

01:15:52.750 - 01:16:11.430

that was running the winery. Mr Ferrero Ferrero was the winemaker then he was boarding with and I hold my own on west street. My dad had previously worked at the same winery before he went into the machine shop. What year was that? He must have worked

01:16:11.430 - 01:16:32.220

on the wonder they're around. I was born in 19 seven and born there. So he was working in the wind at that time, 19 7. Mhm. I was born on paul street there in the house. My mother was a cook. Mhm laborers that was working in

01:16:32.220 - 01:16:46.520

the witness. Dad didn't have enough money to. This is cute. My dad didn't have enough money by the wine so he would have a couple of glasses of wine before he came home to eat. So he'd have his wine at the table and then when you

01:16:46.520 - 01:16:59.840

get through eating that go back to the one you have another glass of wine at the wine. What part of it you get, come on that came from the northern part of it. It's a remote area and he'll be in a A machinist there at his

01:16:59.840 - 01:17:18.400

young age when he was running about 17 or 18. He was an engineer at that time engineering and steam. In other words he was a border engineer but he was a mechanic at the time. What part? A few months to you know, to me right in

01:17:18.400 - 01:17:44.320

the central part of it was all a bit of cultural country. It's all wine. And then when he came here 1905, His uncle was a superintendent of Madrona, no vineyards. What was his uncle's name? Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony Tony. He was the son of uh your

01:17:44.320 - 01:18:09.970

father's brother, grandfather and my father had four brothers. He came to America. one of them went to Argentina The other one later on in 1910 or 11 came to America and one remained in. Yeah. Which my aunt is still life. How old is she? She must

01:18:09.980 - 01:18:26.850

be around about 90 or more. Uh And she's still in what? The brothers that came to America. Where did he land that? Well they all came to san Francisco. They all came here to Hillsborough. Bye uncle arrest. He came here and I believe that his first

01:18:26.860 - 01:18:44.170

job was at the tennis was colony. Uh huh. And he has Little records of when he was a machinist. He also was a cabinet maker and he turned to pay my father off the passage was just run about $80. Made two large wardrobe, which I still

01:18:44.180 - 01:19:07.630

have. Is that so, So your brother, your father come over first and the rest of my father came over in about 9 205. You work? Yeah, there's Uncle Madrona know which was all billions. Which is the paxton paxton ranch, the Pakistan ranch at that time. Both

01:19:07.630 - 01:19:27.230

of us and arrested came over here. They came around about 1910 or 1911, something like that 1905. When my dad came over here. You worked long enough. And yet in the meantime he had left his wife, he married in Cortona. Cortona has left his wife and

01:19:27.230 - 01:19:47.060

she was pregnant and they lost their first, she lost her first son through a miscarriage and he's buried in italy. So when they had enough money he got set the money over for her passage to come from Cortona talk about the general and from jennifer To

01:19:47.060 - 01:20:03.110

San Francisco, the passage was $80. Come by boat all the way to 45. And that was before the Panama canal. No, no Panama went by, no from by boat from the new york new york new york to start an island. The immigration there they pinned a

01:20:03.120 - 01:20:23.500

big long ticket and not knowing anything. And every time they go someplace they take part of the ticket until she landed in san Francisco. From san Francisco two. What the work at the paxton ranch at the cookhouse. She was the cook or the laborers there at

01:20:23.500 - 01:20:38.620

the ranch which was on a little knoll with dr Benson's place now sits on a little note on top of there and the winery came off the no and the one who was in a little hollow there and the main house was on the other side.

01:20:39.710 - 01:20:54.600

And Tony's wife was the housekeeper for the backs of the band. Tell us about Tony. He was from the same region as your dad. He was saying all of the same region. Did he have any experience in winemaking in Italy before he come out? I don't

01:20:54.600 - 01:21:17.500

know. I don't know. Dad never said I had two boys there. When was when was theodora Scalia? Was he still alive, Charlie's Kalyani graduated from the University of California in 1915. He tell his brother is still alive, which would be your first cousin. How often do

01:21:17.500 - 01:21:33.320

you see my name in the an official Nintendo? I see him and he has a son too. Is that what does he do, charlie? He said uh he was a postman and he's a real estate real estate spread a character. He's in real estate. Let's get

01:21:33.330 - 01:21:51.420

back to Oliveto. We just started talking about all of it. And your dad, have you stand there who owned Olive Better with time at that time. The elevator was owned by Bernardini And Francis Stevie older and Lawrence C. Was the superintendent or the manager of the

01:21:51.420 - 01:22:11.290

winery, enable Ferrero was the winemaker. Did you have any experience in Italy? He was a better culture. He was trained, he was educated as an intercultural but he had a bit of cultural school and I still have his books on intercultural work that he did in

01:22:11.290 - 01:22:29.580

1889 I believe. It's interesting. I don't know where I've got um I've got a box when you're kind of Carson looks like this year. That's the kind of stuff that you're looking for. The museum. That's the kind of stuff that would really fit in beautifully written

01:22:29.590 - 01:22:47.440

handwriting, longhand. But what writing is today is anybody use envy is writing that myself. You don't write like that anymore. Beautiful book about all of all his experience going to school with old school that he went into know about the philosophy. Oh he's got a note

01:22:47.450 - 01:23:02.380

down that he was way ahead of time. That book could be published his notes notes in there. That was out of this world. I find that I got to find a three. I got three books. So yes, how I got to hold him, He gave him

01:23:02.390 - 01:23:19.510

to me and I kept them all these years. It's really amazing that way. Getting back to the elevator winery being that he was living with us Going. I would go there after schools to make pin money. I probably get 10 or 15 cents to paint the

01:23:19.510 - 01:23:39.890

hoops on the barrels that were shipped back east because Sardinian Franceschini had a branch office in New York and they were shipped bulk wine. Yeah. Box cars, facts paid to their place in the east. I'd like to win that wind me again. I just saw it

01:23:39.890 - 01:23:51.480

open the other day and I want to go in it because if I go in and close my eyes and walk down those steps, I can still see the barrels lined up on the road. They're going out the back with the cars with the car back

01:23:51.480 - 01:24:02.600

in there to run it up the ramp because there were two tiers high. They had one tear up on end and they put two by fours and put another tier on top of that. There were two tiers embraced in this that they wouldn't break. When were

01:24:02.600 - 01:24:22.040

you last in the right. It's been a long time. They removed the second floor. The second floor without wondering is really unique because it had the fermenting room and they would talk to bust by the way that all the equipment from there was all Pittsburgh machine

01:24:22.050 - 01:24:37.160

company equipment, The pressure must, punks and all the pumps that pump the wine to the top into the four million tanks and the wine would be drawn below. No, no, they didn't need any pumps, pumps that they needed was down in the downstairs and that one

01:24:37.160 - 01:24:54.410

is unique because the walls are no space in between there, but two ft thick. All brick with a big air space in between the walls. That's got one reason as cool as a cucumber in there. And another thing too about that wind and like I said,

01:24:54.410 - 01:25:05.950

I used to go in there and then I was always a little kid, I was half mechanically minded. I would go around the back end we're reaching was a cooper there that would fix all the barrels that would come back busted and put in the new

01:25:05.950 - 01:25:18.400

staves in it or make barrels. And I'd like, I used to go back in there and watch him assembling it and put them together, cleaning them steaming up. I did that to the boiler in there and put jets of steam in the barrel in there to

01:25:18.400 - 01:25:33.120

wash them out. Then we put south suit and clean them all out. They had enough work for ritchie as a coupe into a fully employed employed course, that was the Ricci. It simply bought the property. But still there was nothing about Yes, uh huh. Which is

01:25:33.130 - 01:25:50.260

behind that property of riches. There is an old stone quarry that used to cut blocks with san Francisco? Yes, I've seen it, I've seen it. Uh Getting back to, how do you talked about Mardini and Francis? Lawrence? Seanie and Francesca. How did Franceschini come in first,

01:25:50.260 - 01:26:10.750

it was Mardini and Lawrence seen no laura Franceschini Franceschini Northern cities with efforts and they in turn I would buy their grapes from the fry ranks, the crime branch, I believe if I'm not mistaken, maybe Lawrence City could have been on the front ranch. I don't

01:26:10.750 - 01:26:29.140

know. And when they put the winery up around 1910 or sooner when that wonder was built, I think Lauren Sidney came To the winery. That is when the fried winery was built in 1910 on Friday. When there was no one, no one, no one. Yes, there's

01:26:29.140 - 01:26:45.470

still, they were selling the one way I think it was built up there. Later during the prohibition, everybody went to pot. Oh, the winery fry Brothers winery was built. You thinking I gotta get ahold. I'm going to get a name. I get a charmer Andy fry

01:26:45.480 - 01:27:05.620

because I got to get it. So check these. Used to be up there to search any brothers when I had the leg corral and when it was working for the performance that was never the up on top of the hill was a big cookhouse And the

01:27:05.620 - 01:27:18.190

sergeant is used to be the news. I know because when I was at druids, druids, he was a secretary and I think I took his job over and I was about 20 years. I was about 20 years old. 21 like that. I had a the secretary

01:27:18.190 - 01:27:36.860

for the druids at that time. We'll get back to wondering about time. Yeah. So tell us whatever more you know about Oliveto then. When did they sell it to the Baron? Well the elevator stayed like that for quite a long time. And they also had a

01:27:36.870 - 01:27:56.060

plumber still and I used to love to watch pot still a possibility that we're nick brandy and the gauge was always there. In fact at one time I had a whole set of gauges and high drama tres that I foolishly gave to the gala wine Ernest

01:27:56.070 - 01:28:09.310

get Julia gallop when they were making wine when they were down there in the distillery. And I told judy that I had this, he said, would you bring them down to me? And I gave it to him. It was a little little box with all the,

01:28:09.890 - 01:28:25.870

all the kids. I've got one left here yet. I wonder if they have a, you probably have some judo is another one that is really, I haven't seen him for 30 years and I'm going to go down there and make a date with him and I

01:28:25.870 - 01:28:44.290

want to see him. That would be in a, that would be, I'll find out, find out, come up here. I'll find out when he comes up and we'll go to lunch. I want to see him. Yeah, I'll find out, you know, he, he, he comes up

01:28:44.300 - 01:28:58.650

frequently on his helicopter. But uh, he doesn't like to go to a restaurant. So they have a little kitchen out there and they buy salami and whatnot and they do their eating out there. They used to go to the wrecks. They visited a Super Rank and

01:28:58.650 - 01:29:13.660

I had seen Julia's son bob frequently at superman. But he told me the last time I'd seen, which is now two years since I have seen him. He mentioned the fact that they have a little kitchen there that they kind of make their own yeah, I'll

01:29:13.660 - 01:29:31.550

make you know it was him and I maybe we don't know each other that well what we did start, I remember him when he had nothing oh yeah, nothing actually had no offices no bigger than this negative. That would be really interesting to him. And I

01:29:31.800 - 01:29:46.650

know he would kid me right along and we would go he was intelligent. He was seeing the picture on the wall. He started buying farms right off the bat. He brought a lot of ranches around Livingston. There were all green fields at that time. And when

01:29:46.650 - 01:30:01.670

I get through at work, you know he said come on, get his pick up and we'd go out rabbit hunting with the pickup and he started picking up one. Well uh he saw the writing on the wall. Really? Oh yeah, he was, he was the type

01:30:01.670 - 01:30:19.020

of man that had CAhill make his first concrete tanks. All these things the next year Julia was making the constant attacks. That's right. They always like to do it themselves himself. And he had, I believe that Wilson Wilson is still, is he still there, His right

01:30:19.020 - 01:30:36.990

hand man that he was making wine. Crawford Crawford Crawford right Crawford he picked up charlie. Crawford remember him when he came when he got him at Davis? He picked him up from the telephone company. He spent charlie charlie went from Davis to tell a wine company

01:30:37.120 - 01:30:53.490

from the gallery because he picked him up there and you said if he's still there he's still there. He picked up his winemaker right? Oh I knew I knew Mr teller too. But the rumor y yeah JB JB himself, what do you think was a big

01:30:53.490 - 01:31:15.720

turnaround? When did yellow really become a popular or big name? And wonder when did their volume really start to see that earnest with a good financial man. Uh Right Julia a good construction man and hard he could see ahead. He saw he saw he saw way

01:31:15.720 - 01:31:30.750

ahead of things like I said he was way he saw the future that the one he could he saw that it was hard to get grapes from their growers. You know they're always not wanting to sell. So he would he sense enough to buy grapes like

01:31:30.750 - 01:31:48.110

that. And also he would get wineries to make great for him and he would finance them where they couldn't you know he was very liberal and he was an honest man to answer this question I think the second world war made that's when they really started

01:31:48.110 - 01:32:03.670

to go and not even that he was he was always on the goal, he was always were the other fellas with like robot they either had too much interference or look what's the other one there at East Sidewinder then then I got a bunch of cooperation.

01:32:03.670 - 01:32:17.450

We got in there, you know, and but he was always pushing ahead. He was always, he was a go getter. Let's face it, he was a go getter more than Ernest. Ernest Ernest was a guy that had the financial end of it. You see that there

01:32:17.450 - 01:32:33.430

was plenty of money around for Judah to operate on. Where did they, where did they get their money? How did they get money? Well, they were very economical workers. In other words, the economy was there password. Let's put it down. He would not waste a nickel.

01:32:33.430 - 01:32:55.050

He would not waste no lumber. He would not waste nothing. Well everything, everything was usable in other words on that is that is the secret to Economy. Let's face it. Even today, today three Back to gallery being that we had the program, they had all this

01:32:55.050 - 01:33:13.000

brandy, the name of the game at the time of Suite one. So they bought all this brandy in the state of California. Very, very low Christ. Then you have the transition from bulk to taste rates. During that transition. They had the raw material which they live

01:33:13.000 - 01:33:34.870

in a Then during the war years from about 42, we entered the war in 41. But uh about 40-1. They made alcohol converted their fruit distillery to an alcohol distillery and subsidized by the federal government with the, the molasses that they imported and the other products.

01:33:34.950 - 01:33:55.040

And so being the main alcohol on a cost plus basis that really started to, but that's not detracting from their ability. They were, they were the best market. That's it. I think he was probably, we can see what he's, what he has done. He's got a

01:33:55.050 - 01:34:11.560

glass factory. There has now, yes. And he built up his buildings and kept kept to six, but he didn't go overboard. He just was limited. He always did just so far. And that was it. And he kept up with all the new ideas, a lot of

01:34:11.560 - 01:34:12.900

experimentation they had.