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Sonoma County, a diverse county of over one million acres is famed for its agriculture industry and recreation boasting a booming economy and a unique lifestyle for its citizens described by the same Luther Burbank as the chosen spot of all the earth. Sonoma County is the place

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to live, work and play as we move into the 21st century. Led by the forward looking philosophy of its governing bodies. Sonoma County's 340,000 residents are a harmonious, successful blend of ethnic and economic backgrounds. We invite you to take a closer look at Sonoma County in

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the nineties with your host, Rich McGlinchey. Hello again everyone. Welcome to another edition of Sonoma County in the nineties. On this particular edition of our program, we'll be talking about the Blue Ribbon Civil Service Review Commission. This is a commission that was created about two years

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ago by the board of supervisors. And when we're talking to three men who are very closely involved with this project first, we're talking to Richard Gerhard or Dick Gerhardt who's the director of personnel and employee relations for the County of Sonoma and we'll be talking with

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Lee Pierce, who is that consumer products, marketing and sales division manager for deposition sciences Incorporated. And over here on the last side, Michael Allen, general manager of S. E. I. U. That's the service employees International Union Local 707. Welcome gentlemen. It's really quite a project and

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it has been ongoing for about two years. Right, alright, let's start off with you. Why does the board of supervisors won a blue ribbon committee to review the civil service system. Well, it's part of the overall reorganization process that the county is going through. And as

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well as reviewing departmental organizations, we're looking at many of our systems and policies and procedures. So part of that is we're reviewing the county's personnel system, which is a civil service system, voted in by the people about 1950. And so we're going to be looking through

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the blue ribbon committees, efforts at upgrading, revitalizing or perhaps even replacing the system. If that would turn out to be appropriate, Why is it important to have a contemporary human resources management system in local government? I think like most organizations rich were facing limited revenues, increased

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demands for services as people ask more of county government and our need to be more flexible and efficient and of course to have a workforce that is able to respond to those changes and be more efficient requires I think a review and probably an overhaul of

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our personnel system which is, is a civil service system. Well, we have 14 persons who represent really a wide spectrum of, of the community, Michael Allen and lee Pierce, for example, are members of the committee. We have to County Department heads David Price from the Library

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and Lorene Irizarry, from the office of commissions. We have Ray Meyers and um, bob Jarvis who are middle managers. We have john Walsh from the painter's union representing private sector labor union. We have bob terry from safeway I'm gonna have to look at my list to

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make sure I don't leave someone out. Hedley lawson representing private human resource department with solar optical Karen walker, who's the director of human resources for the city of santa rosa. We mentioned Michael and lee. And of course we also have uh Mariana Chavez who's an employee

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represented by S. C. I. U. Larry sheets, who's the sheriff's office employee representing the Sheriff's Office employees association. And we have George sully who is the past chairperson of the Civil service commission And hopefully that adds up to all 14 people. How did they get appointed

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to this committee? There was an effort to put together a balanced committee in terms of types of membership. And once that happened, the various groups were asked to nominate people. So for example, the employee organizations nominated their representatives. We asked people from private industry including lee

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pierce to serve the department heads group nominated people and ultimately the board of supervisors then appointed 14 member Blue Ribbon Committee. And they're continuing to serve right now. It really is Michael, why are why are county employees included on the blue ribbon committee? Well, I think

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that the reason the employees are included on the committee is that any change to the civil service system or or actually going outside of civil service and doing something differently would have profound impacts on the workforce. And uh in order for the that change to be

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something that is going to be um embraced by them and actually supported, uh it's very necessary to get their input as to what is good about the present system, What is wrong with the present system and to really try to incorporate all the experience and brain

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power in the workforce to look at what is happening and to really uh be able to uh capture that, which is really of the essence of civil service in terms of what's valuable and also look at those things that really need to be changed because they're

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not uh really effective in today's, you know, contemporary world in terms of business practices. So that's why we need the participation of the workforce. Well, lee, let's jump over here to you, why are representatives from the private sector serving on the committee? Well, I think that's

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a very good question. Richard and I want to applaud the county to begin with for having the foresight to include we members from the private sector to respond to that. I think that it is the intent of the board of supervisors and the county to employ

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the broadest spectrum of of of expertise in the area of human resources management systems. And to do that obviously means to step outside your own um house and take a look at some of your other customers, such as we in the private sector who often has

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a individuals as well as um business persons as individuals. We do utilize the various services that the county does provide. So I think the the response would be just to increase the chances for coming up with the best human resources system possible. How is your blue

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ribbon committee organized? Lee? Well, uh it's pretty traditional in the sense of organizational structure. I chair the committee and Michael Allen is our vice chair. Um We are staffed by the county personnel department as Richard mentioned and also a representative from the county administrator's office. Uh

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There are various department heads and other folks who uh serve on subcommittees of the Blue ribbon commission which look at various uh aspects of the ordinance which uh may include recruitment and selection or classification. Uh you know, various various components of the civil service ordinance will

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be looked at by these subcommittees. Um stay with you for a couple more questions. Well, county employees have an opportunity to give input to the blue ribbon committee on the civil service commission system. Well, we certainly hope so without their input. I don't, I don't think

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we could do our jobs very well. Uh the method that we have cell Elected to encourage and solicit uh county employee input is to establish focus groups and we have retained a consultant firm to help us put these focus groups together. Uh they will, there will

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probably be about seven groups. Dick, am I correct on that and they would they would be staffed by about 12 participants each. Uh These consultants will select the participants by some random methods so that there is fairness among um the folks who who are represented on

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these these focus groups, their inputs then will be gathered and um the consultants then will put together a report of findings and present that to the blue ribbon committee. Uh How can the public give input to the blue blue ribbon committee? Well actually there there are

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two ways in which the public can give their input to the committee. One has already taken place. And that was on March 28th of this year where there was a public forum held at the Steel Lane Parks and Recreation center here in town and members of

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the public were invited to attend and present uh any inputs or concerns to the consultants who would be facilitating that session or those sessions. Uh The other way is one that we certainly encourage participation by the public at each of our bi monthly meetings. There is

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a segment on the agenda Uh following each of our regular um business items. I think it's toward the last 15 or 30 minutes on the agenda where we encourage members of the public to come in and express their views and our opinions. It's really very interesting.

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This is quite a committee and if people seem to all be very very deep into it, we're gonna talk a lot more in just a few moments about just a moment I should say about the Blue room and civil service review committee. But first this important

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Your kids shouldn't have to grow up this way. Give your Children back their childhood in the fight against violent crimes. You have a weapon. 1 800 we prevent do something now. 1 800 we prevent together we will take a bite out of crime. Welcome back to

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this edition of Sonoma County in the nineties. An important edition of our program because we're talking about the blue ribbon civil service review committee. They're dealing with reviewing the civil service commission or committee, I should say and rules and the entire system for the Sonoma County

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government. We're talking with Richard Gerhard, Director of personnel and employee relations for Sonoma County lee pierce consumer products, marketing and sales division manager for deposition science Incorporated Michael Allen. General manager for S. C. I. U. That's the service employees International Union Local 707. And uh, first

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segment of the program. Gentleman is very interesting. I sincerely am interested in what you're doing. Having been with the county for many years. Dick, Let's hop back over here to you for a while. The blue ribbon committee as I understand it came out of the county

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reorganization process. Now let's jump back a little bit beyond that. Why is the board of supervisors approved the county reorganization plan? Well, I think with the increasing demand for services on county government and the declining revenues, particularly because the state is from our point of view,

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at least taking revenues away from counties that were our traditional sources of funding. It's necessary for us to realign our organizations and our operations to make them as flexible and efficient as possible. And so the reorganization process did that. Looking at all the many, many functions

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the county performs and attempting to re align them and to reduce the number of departments. So we've reduced the number of county departments we have from about 36 down to 29 which still seems like a large number, but a county performs an amazing array of services

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that often many members of the public. Never see When you said a moment ago that we are of the opinion of the state is taking our money. There are 57 other counties that agree with you. That's right. We feel rather strongly about maybe it would be

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a proposed for you right here to give us an example of how some of the county departments are or have been reorganized. Yes, of course permits and natural resources. That has been in the newspaper. That's a situation where the board has consolidated the planning department and

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the building inspection department and some small portions of public works and water agency into a single permitting department where the customer, the public can go to one location and receive all the services at more or less one time and certainly at one place. And that reorganization

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has been partially implemented but we are remodeling a building to allow all those people to be housed centrally. Another example would be the human services department which brings together social services and income maintenance and the gain program and what's called pick private industry council uh, area

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agency on aging and veteran services into one department because we're attempting to consolidate services to the clients again through one source and also promote efficiency and better communications between those various arms of government. I know one thing that you just mentioned right at the start there

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that we used to hear when I was with the public information service for the county is the necessity of having go to the planning department building inspection department, public health department, public works water agency many times to get building or reconstruction permits and this really was

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a inconvenient to say the least because people were going maybe to five or six different locations. Now those will all be in one of those will be located in one location as soon as we finish the remodeling of that building and that's probably about a little

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less than a year away. Okay. Alright. Lee how will the county reorganization improve services to the public? Well, you know, I don't think that any of us can be exact about how, how the reorganization would improve uh since we have not finished our work at this

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point, however rich, I will say that it is our expectation that the county services will be more responsive and efficient to the customers that they serve both internal customers as well as external customers. That's good because you and I have been there a long time and

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I've heard this the public many times. Certainly commented to public information that they didn't think they got the proper response to their problems. Of course we all feel our problem is the most important one of all we go in there. But there was a lot of

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unhappiness on that and it sounds like the reorganization and the re study with the blue ribbon Service Civil Service review committee is going to really affect that strongly. Dick. Um What role does the Civil Service commission play in? The Civil service commission plays right now. A

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key role in the county's personnel system. They not only make the rules for many of the personnel policies, procedures and rules, but they're also an appeals hearing body for appeals of discipline, discrimination, complaints, recruiting, examining selecting complaints, the commission here is all those appeals and so

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as the blue urban committee looks at the system, they'll have to decide or recommend? Not only what rules, policies and procedures we should follow, but what should be the role of the commission or should it be succeeded by some other type of body that would provide

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an appeals process for both employees and applicants who are trying to get jobs with the county. Michael. How are civil service commissioners appointed presently? The way that commissioners are appointed is that there are five supervisorial districts in Sonoma County. Five county supervisors. Each supervisor has the

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ability to make an appointment to the civil service commission. Now Dick, I might be wrong about this. I believe it's four years each term, isn't it? A four year term of office. And normally the board of supervisors try to find people who have an understanding of

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public service and understanding of personnel issues and also the time to be able to serve because it's a very time consuming process to be a commissioner for the Civil Service commission. I would like to add a plug here. Rich one of the positions is open. That's

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in the Petaluma area and supervisor Jim Harverson, I'm sure would be would welcome interested people who have the background that Michael Allen mentioned in terms of making their interest known to supervisor. Harverson um, Michael trotted down here a long question here, but I want to read

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it and put it all together. Now if the blue ribbon committee eventually recommends the board of supervisors and the voters that the civil service system be replaced with a new new human resource management system? Would the system have the same protection as the present civil service

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system? Well, I think that given given the fact of what case law says about what are the protections for public employees and also what's happening in the private sector as well. In terms of uh protection for employees, most probably that there would be a number of

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different protections and processes where people would be able to get uh due process and and fair hearings for employment disputes. And they would still have many other components of a of the system that are presently done under civil service. So a lot of it would be

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would be there. But it might it might be done in such a way as to be more efficient or be able as Dick alluded to serving the internal consumers better management the employees right now. For instance, it takes very long for a re classification to be

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able to be done under the present civil service system. Perhaps with a more contemporary system, there would be ways to streamline that. There are many different examples but uh under most of the Civil service reform initiatives have taken place in other states. They found that for

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a variety of reasons. Federal funding mandates uh the U. S. Constitution State constitute those things. Yes there have to be a number of things in terms of protections and processes in place that regardless of whether you have civil service or not their requirements in a a

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how do I say this in a democracy where there's protections for individuals, property and rights? Yeah. Uh Rich. I wanted to throw side condiment aside. You've been personnel director with marin County for many years in county for a minute. Do you think uh Civil service needs

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reorganization? I think so. Rich. I think it's Michael Allen said it is necessary for a large organization to have a formalized human resource system with some appeals processes, if nothing else, the the law and the court cases really require us to have those procedures internally. And

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it makes good organizational sense sometimes to the alternative is simply going to court and having a lawsuit which is very slow and time consuming for all parties. And really, I don't think an appropriate way to resolve employment issues as to whether the new system has to

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be civil service in the traditional sense of the word. I don't think it does. Or maybe civil service needs to be redesigned for the 1990s, but we definitely need a formalized system with, with processes that are at least somewhat similar to what we have now. We

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have a moment here before a break. Why would the Civil Service commission initially adopted by the voters? I think it was back in 1951. Yes, a lot of these initiatives took place during that period of time in, in counties and I think, I think the original

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reason for civil service was to make sure that, um, uh, there's a, there's a certain political component to being in public service and as you well know, under, many years ago there used to be an old spoil system, Someone would come into office and then everybody

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would lose their job and there'd be a whole group of political appointments. And the whole idea of civil service was to try to recruit on the basis of merit uh, skills, experience and to have a fair testing procedure and then appointment procedure where people were being

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placed into jobs on the basis of ability and background as opposed to who you knew in the political process. And so that's really why the core of why we have a civil service system. And I think that explains it very carefully with a pause right here

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for a moment. Ladies and gentlemen, this message. And then Richard lee and Michael and I will be back Randall. What you doing to daddy? Cream of rice. Okay, what you doing, glasses? Oh, if you don't stop your friend from driving drunk, who will do whatever it

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takes. Welcome back to the final segment of this edition of Sonoma County in the nineties. And we're talking about the blue ribbon civil service review committee. We're talking with Richard Gere Hartley Pierce and Michael Allen and Michael since most county employees work under union contracts and

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protection is a civil system civil system civil service system needed anymore. That's a really interesting question. Some people would argue that it's not, um, I, I'm of the belief that there's a real valuable component to having the community involved with the administration of personnel and services

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of the county and that it under labor contracts. You can have arbitrations, you can have people who come in and quasi judicial way to look at disputes. But to my way of looking at, there's nothing quite like having the community involved by, by having people who

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are fair minded and involved in local activities to come in and take a look at what the county is doing, uh, on a number of areas, uh, testing recruitment, discipline, all those sort of things. And so, um, although it could be covered by the labor contracts

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and I might be different than some of my cohorts in the labor movement. I think there's great value to having the public involved by, by way of volunteers for the Civil Service commission in personnel issues. All right. We've got about two minutes left to us and

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a couple of questions I wanna ask. Should Michael have got through this too. You should all management employees be excluded from civil service. Do you think? Um, my personal belief is that the highest level managers probably should be employees that are under contract directly with the

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board of supervisors and we have flexibility and removal if essentially they're not being responsive to the policy makers. I feel that there's a certain value to having the mid level managers and below in a more protected environment where they are not subject to political. Uh, how

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I say this quick changes in political wind where where they can be replaced easily. So I think that for at least the lower levels of management that they should be under civil service. We're just about out of time. We have a few seconds left to us.

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I had some other things I wanted to ask you. How long is this gonna go on? I think we have hopes that will wrap our efforts up by the end of this calendar year or shortly thereafter and probably have a an initiative on the ballot for

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the people to vote on the changes that the blue ribbon committee recommends. All right. We got other things we wanted to ask you I think is very important. Maybe the three of you would like to come back say in the fall would you three months ahead.

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Yeah, we can come up to date with. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we're talking to Richard Gerhard and I know Richard Gearhart is the director of personnel and employee relations Sonoma County gotta release title lee pierce is a consumer product marketing and sales division manager for

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deposition science incorporated. And my friend Michael Allen is general manager for S. E. I. U. Program. Sonoma County. The 90 I'm rich potential will be back with you next week with other members of county government, family or interesting individuals such as Lee and Michael working with

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county projects till then. Goodnight, good luck and good health to each and every one of you.