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Sonoma County chosen spot of all the earth as far as nature is concerned, according to the famed plant wizard Luther Burbank Diverse County, with 1,010,000 acres of land on 1574 miles of scenic roadways, Sanoma County is rightfully famed for its agriculture did a culture, industry and

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recreation as well as for the amazingly successful ethnic and economic mixture of its more than 340,000 residents on for the forward looking philosophy of its local governing bodies. Now we invite you to take a closer look at Sonoma County in the eighties with your host, Rich

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McGlinchy, and I think this is going to be a very special edition. Certainly rare. One. We're gonna be talking to three members of the Central County. Well, I wouldn't say Sonoma County, the media that covers Sonoma County we're gonna be talking to from your screen from

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your left, George night over. San Francisco Chronicle couldnt Nielsen from the Bay City News Service and Paul Angle from local press Democrat. It's nice to have you all here. You know, the the media plays a very, very important role in government. First of all. As far

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as you're concerned in the audience, they tell you what we're doing at the local government. They report what's going on. Local government, sheriff's officers, border supervisors planning zoning everything of importance out there to the best of their ability so that you have a clear picture of

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what's going on your local government and how your taxpayer dollars are being spent. Now with that behind us, George, when we start with you and just ask you briefly, you represent the Chronicle. Your staff writer. How long have been there a little background, please. Okay, then

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what? San Francisco Chronicle for about 14 years going on 15 years and I worked in the k p I X for well, kgo TV ap San Francisco A few other places. Okay, Uh, Karen, how about you? How long? With basically new service and a little background

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about Karin Nielsen? Well, I've been with basically new service for a year now covering Sonoma County. Um, before that, I worked, uh, in Southern California for a daily down there for about seven years doing local government down there and schools. Um, like many Californians, many people

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call themselves Californians. I grew up in the Midwest, and I got my journalism degree there. Yeah, Well, uh, and, uh, got my journalism degree of the University of Wisconsin there. Well, not not all grouping, I e. I just remember where you prove I grew up in

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Calcio over Napa County and then came back here to work. I worked in San Francisco for a couple of years, uh, a smaller publication and came up Teoh Sonoma County. And I've been with the press Democrat about 12 years, covered kind of government, city government, covered

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the state legislature, worked as assistant news editor for a while and did much other things, but made the government beats you. Working a state beat For what? About three years. Yeah, I've been asked a lot of little general questions. I would ask. I'll throw George or

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you and everybody Comment if you will, Uh, in general, how do you like covering local government? Yes, Basically, it's pretty. It's not bad. San Francisco. It's very difficult to cover unless you've got a long time. They could access to the information often some of the offices

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and red counties. Little tougher, but this place is pretty open. And, uh by and large, I mean, they're times with people who want to talk to you about things with. I think it's pretty open. It's enjoyable. It's OK care. Yes, I agree with George. I think

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it is pretty open here. Um, another thing is that I haven't run into too many professional politicians or bureaucrats around here. They seem to be more like regular people. Uh huh. Oh, you Have you been in Sacramento for a while? I don't. George has been in

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the city. How much you know what you're feeling called. I enjoy covering local government. I made this growth care a little bit about professional politicians, uh, everybody in elected offices of politician, and, uh, to one extent or another, I think county government is pretty open. But

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that's also affection. Fact that county governments something like a sieve. I mean, there's a lot going on, and and it's something of a maelstrom of activity, and it's it's pretty tough for anything to be kept under wraps for two very long. But it's fun. It's Ah,

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it's exciting. Even though some of the issues they're relatively dull, the process of gathering news I think it's fun and exciting at the county level. Well, let's follow along with that. Some of that same area in general. But what do you do? Your basic impressions overall

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of becoming known. For instance, you covered state you've covered the city on can. And I know you've been in school. Certainly joint. What basic impressions of local government is more efficient, less efficient, more after problems you are. You can only or less. I've covered government mostly

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for the 12 years I've been in the press Democrat. And one of the fictions that that is is widely accepted is that private enterprise does things very well. And if government can only be like private enterprise, things would be a lot better. My experience of private

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enterprises, that private enterprise is not all that great either. I mean, there's a lot of inefficiencies and private enterprise, and sure, there's tremendous inefficiencies in government, and a lot of them are because you're doing things like providing people with welfare programs and benefits. And, uh, such

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things is that that are not designed to be run efficiently. Per say, you're not a money making operation. So yeah, there are inefficiencies in government. There's inefficiencies in private enterprise, and they could probably both do better. But then the county government, uh, does fairly fairly decent

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job. And and this is a strong board of supervisors. I think it is probably improving, actually, kid. Well, um, you cover the San Francisco seeing occasionally, too, don't you? Yes. I'm down there occasionally. I do not. Not on a on a day to day basis. That

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really so it's not quite It's familiar to me. Um, I think things move along, Uh, efficiently here. Yes. I think you have to realize that government also has a lot of strings attached to it. It can. That the county government isn't always free to do is

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exactly as it would like. And maybe it sees problems with the way processes air going. But because of mandates from the state legislature, they can't just go off and do us that, like sometimes to maybe tackle the local situation. Georgia. Yeah, I think, uh, I kind

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of you, those two guys are, uh I don't have a judge it against what model, but I used to do a little stuff in Sacramento in the state Legislature a little bit. I work for Copley and second a bit. I was around the couple. I wasn't

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made government reporter, but I was there a lot. And I did a lot of the border soups in San Francisco, and, uh uh, the state government was probably the worst I could never. But that was administrations. And then San Francisco was more cumbersome. But that's purely

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a lot more people, different ones, and I think it's fairly efficient. I mean, like Karen says, Government has Everyone has a right to say something about an issue may take hours and hours and hours or days and days and days or weeks, but I think it

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grinds. It grinds out like they say, and, uh, I don't think it's grew up there. People who make take a few pennies here and there. They get caught eventually, and there has been a lot of that. I know of a lot that's endemic in the system.

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I think it's pretty fairly open and honest, and I think it's fairly efficient. I would just as the host here, I would agree with you all sense of the word and that I restarted with Paul Look, private business, private enterprise, other and government could infect it

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could do better. Andi should, if they can't private business. If they don't think about a business very shortly. Government can kind of muddle along a lot of times that and hopefully improve gradually. And we're hoping for that here. Nothing. I noticed the number of reporters covering

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the beat. Remember Paul when you were there covering the first time, but are two or three persons that were there, period, I think they paper here. Maybe the paper Petaluma in a couple of radio station. But the number is growing now. Comment on that is that

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strictly because we're a little more population and so forth Well, I think it's certainly function of that. Cinema County is growing population last, but it's becoming increasingly more sophisticated, more urban. And as Azad happens, you not only get an increased interest from from even the smaller

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publications in Cinema County, but you get interest from outside. So no mechanic witness George and Karen being here. The Chronicle Certainly never had anybody appear on a regular basis until just recently. I think that's true judgment. Uh, so certainly there are more people that cover snow

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mechanic government, and it's I think a function of the population increase in the fact that it's more important as an entity and in the Bay Area. Yeah, well, I guess I'd have to agree with what Paul said. I This is, uh, the first year that basically

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news has had a regular reporter up here in Sonoma County. And, like, um, I should explain, I guess that what Bay City News does is send its stories to radios, newspapers and new services throughout the Bay Area. We don't send them to readers per se, but

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in sending out my stories. And I know that some of them have generated quite a bit of interest in events that have happened up here. Yeah, I, uh I agree. Someone Population has something do with it. It's also a reflection for the From The Chronicles viewpoint.

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Another thing that's going on Main Bay area South Bay are the circulation wars that they have in the East south of San Jose Mercury News. And I guess the ones and Concord's. And this is, uh, this is kind of part of that. They were trying to

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beef it up, although I think as it's worked out, it's kind of like one of the lesser parts, in a sense, but we do have two full time reporters here. Yeah, that's fairly recent. I've been here. Maybe you're in 1/2 full time, then, since I live

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in Occidental have for many years, I had to commute. So there was also another part of that that the people who are here effort head for years campaign to get themselves out of the city in order to wait in that community in your own community. So

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it's a function of a number of different things and aspires. The Chronicles concern so and then, since we're here, might as well go the work suit Weizman because that's a lot of land use issues. A lot of things. They're all focused there. So I think there's

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something that that I didn't point out early and I should both if there do. You ladies and gentlemen, if you read The Chronicle and Press Democrat, you know that Paul Angles writes ready often very, very likely story. A story describing something in total. And George also

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writes longer stories, many feature stories. Where's Karen? As a big city? New service representative here sends what I believe she calls advisories, which are really 45 paragraphs about something that's important here to our new service saying term, disseminate that to about 50 or 60 60 60

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news around 60 media outlets. So So they do differ in the writing, of course, is writing. We're down to about one minute before we take a break. Eso I think we just go ahead and take a break in just a second. Here we come back or

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like each other, to kind of describe briefly how you cover a story, if you will. In other words, the public in general. What tips you off to the story? What? What indicates the stories there and how you cover? Because I'm quite sure our audience general isn't

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doesn't know that from the individual reporter standpoint, George Snider, Karin Nielsen, Paul Ingles and I will return right after this important message will also tell you about the paintings on the wall. Hey, remember your lungs. I understand why you forget them after all, is that song

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you gotta have heart? It wasn't. You gotta have bombs. Lungs. A vital smoking really messes your lungs up until finally you can't breathe. Maybe they'll never right. I left Mile lungs in San Francisco, so take care of your lungs. They're only human. The American Lung Association,

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This is Raymond Burr. There have been important changes in our criminal justice system. Now, crime victims have rights. If you or someone you know is a victim of a crime, a free program is available to help you learn about these rights. Pick up the phone and

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dial toll free. 1 800 victims Learn about victims rights and services. Girl now 1 800 victims Let her back to a very special edition of Saddam account in the eighties. Were talking to the media that covers the cinema. Got a government. Of course, they cover many

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other stories as well. But just before we left, we suggested two things. First I said I would describe the paintings on the wall paintings by Ellie McGlinchy. And yes, there is a connection. She has studied art with for five years with Charles Becker in the Qatari

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area. And we are very pleased that she allows us to display these paintings today. Uh, let me left a moment ago, we were talking about each of you covering a new story And I don't think that the public in general may know just when a reporter

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does how he gets wind of the story, how he writes it where he gets his information, why don't you describe it, Paul? How do you do a story? Well, I think the essence of of reporting is to be accessible to people in my practice is to

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try to just talk to as many people a zai can to be available out there. I mean, a lot of times, because the physical process of writing it takes me back to the newsroom. There's a certain amount of my week that is hung up in the

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newsroom, but a smudge is possible. I try to get out and drop in and say, Hey, uh, what you think about the 40 Niners last night and, uh, you know, with that kind of of a casual kind of conversation, you develop personal relationship with these people

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and I spent 30 minutes yesterday talking to a guy out in the hallway just leaning up against the wall on a so he'll have another guy came in. I spent another 10 minutes or so, and you know, that's how you find things out that and in

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covering the meeting with that, you need to cover. But I think the most important part is being out there talking to people. And people tell you things. They know what's going on out there, and that's what they're interested in talking about. If you listen to him,

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you get stories. Beaching being easy to get a hold on. I think that's true. Karen, How about you? Yours is a little different. How is it different? Well, um, a lot of it is just playing, um, keeping track of things and keeping track of where things

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are and going through the daily routine of contacting people and asking them, doing your beat checks, asking what's going on, what's happening today? Um, uh, I keep lists of things that are coming up so I won't miss them and, uh, try to remind myself to check

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on a story that may have happened some time ago to find out how that's progressing, that I might not have heard about in my, um, day today, uh, Rounds. So I It's a lot of organization, I think, and involved in keeping track of what's going on.

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Well, I know you use your computer from your office out there and you're in Georgia in the press room much of the time, and I know you do your stories there. Uh, George, how about yourself? Well, yeah, same as those guys. Basically, you got get out

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about a lot, talk to people and hang out with him. We're just talking chat and to keep track of things, have a little address book, keep court dates and that sort of thing. They're coming up. Paul Naipaul covers a government will be pretty much I cover

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carrying. We cover more general sign, in a sense, So we will have to keep track of, maybe court things that may or may not have to, or traffic accidents or murders. All those things that occurred and so basically using memory a lot. John notes down, carrots

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were organized. And I am so she writes. Most people call me if I get my home phone number out to people. I don't want the call at midnight, but they can I tell him to do if they want to. If they've got something, tell me people

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can call me since we have a real I worked a lot out of my pickup truck for a while, the small computer. So I was everywhere, anywhere worked off my dean. We have an office now and, uh, courthouse square. And so there are numbers of people

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will call, and we were like on a larger office or newspaper. Here in Tom, we have in office, people click calls, people calling a lot while concerns. And that's one thing. And we get things from here through sandwiches. Come back this way, referred back to us,

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and we read the local papers and listen local radio. And if I hear of accidents of things, we just keep track of everything. You can listen a lot of news and talking about people and just try to stay on top of it. I know one thing

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that Karin Nielsen takes copious notes, because when I was in the press room when I was looking in one of the drawers of her desk, that here's the you know, the notebooks, reporters years, there's a stack of about 50 these things, all forward notes. I didn't

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look at your notes, but I thought, there's there's a woman, takes a lot of notes Uh, who decides whether you cover a story? You do that individually or you signed that out, right? The first, the first line. Uh, if you will, is the reporter. You're the

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guy on the ground, so to speak. And there are cases where if we choose not to cover a story, I think everybody would agree that probably no one in our newsrooms would ever find out it exists. Sometimes that's not the case. And you have to know

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when that's gonna happen when it is gonna happen. But a to a first level, we decide. And then beyond that, from time to time, we get either assignments or suggests strong suggestions from from the city desk where someone has called in and and said, uh, blah,

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blah, blah. And the city editor said, I think that's a pretty good story. I suggest you go out and do that. So the report has, at least in the in the operation, that I'm in covering a beat, which is his George said, only county government. They

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rely on me to determine for the most part what is gonna be covered in What is it, George, About you over there with the Chronicle. When I was myself here, it was pretty easy. I would either ignore stuff or not, depending whether right Paul's needs, for

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example of my needs are slightly different. He has two more intently, intensely cover an area where I can sort of pick and choose certain stories that might relate to the Chronicle in a larger area, sort of circulation sense, but also the ones that are should be

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important here. The people. There's no way I keep up with those guys. But we can't simply force numbers and they've been here. They're pretty well entrenched in the community, you know? They confine, ask for things, they just know more things. And we do. But what story

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will come up and we try to assess the Chronicles needs are and whether or not we'll get the paper and we're not gonna expending energy followed up that see if it'll get in paper. And most of the time here it's were self motivated. I mean, we

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will tell them what's going on since they removed from here on occasion will get a bright idea from the city desk, you know, and it may or may not be good and it may not be workable from here because there's this time lag and there's a

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knowledge leg, and, uh, it's basically self generate. We decide whether or not who's gonna cover who wants to do it. We can also wanted to certain kinds of stories. I have an interest doing. Stories involve all the trees and animals. That's where things which other reporters

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might not think. Some guys think planning is more important that he likes to more planning kinds of stories, and they're important to different constituencies. But they all read the paper. And so we decide among us who may be best suited to this story or not, and

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who wants to do it, or do we have time to do it? And then we tell our editor, and he generally depends on the personality, but they generally will say Sure, go ahead or no, it's a terrible idea. Well, you must be pretty much your own

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on assignment picker, aren't you care? Well, since I'm the one who's up here and cinema still is kind of isolated from San Francisco, and there's quite a distance to go before the news reaches down there, Um, I they rely on me to know what's going on

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up here, but, um, in the main office, they do get people send them press releases down there, um, or call with story ideas. So I do get assignments from the main office as well. And of course, when I decide that I want to go ahead with

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the story, I always have to check with the editor to to see if they want it. Uh, one thing I want to be sure to get it out of which time I've got left. Is it necessary that reporters and the governments they cover be adversaries? If

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it is why And if it isn't, why, George? Um, I guess there's a tradition of of between the press stemming from us, the days of independence, of some sort of advertorial. I think it was much stronger in the old days because it was, like, kind of

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kick the rascals out attitude, that the press was president. More liberty in those days to reliable Thanks. You could just see a lot of terrible things about people without fear. They set a little more with manly fashion. You know, they have fisticuffs or dual thes days.

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You're subject to, uh especially like a lot of litigation. So they're very sometimes papers are afraid. That sort of adversary you have to work with these people were lined period of time, exactly. Sure showing up for one story, taking a hike so you can be friendly.

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You not ever see it. But there's always a knowledge that whatever they say may be used against them. If it that's understood what they're not telling you and that you're always keeping your eye out. And I made a hole, buddy, Buddy, you could be with somebody.

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If the guy messes up in the public trust, it could be his neck. So there's always that is all. You're always a little removed is like being a frame of the policeman. You see that at any point, you might want to take your liberty from you

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with just cause and you can still be friends with. Now I think I think adversarial is probably a little too strong a word, although I think that's how it's traditionally described. But, um, I think when you work with people for a while, they realize what your

00:24:28.690 - 00:24:44.350

needs are. As a reporter gathering stories, you kind of you know what they're trying to do and understand how their jobs. So you can develop a respect for each other as professionals and how you do your jobs. Um, but as George said, there always is the

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in the back of your mind, You know that if they end up in hot water tomorrow, you're gonna be writing about it exactly. Well, you know, as sitting back is probably information and working with you folks. To some degree, I have often thought this, too. And

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I've toured county officials just for all the time I've been there. There is no such thing as off the record. Basically, if you're in at at your job, if you're at your desk or in your officer in your meeting, basically to say, now this is off

00:25:16.640 - 00:25:30.540

the record is is unrealistic. You're putting a reporter even though you may be a good acquaintance. You may even play golf for the guy and liking, but you're putting him in a hell of a disadvantage by saying this is off the record. Good reporters are gonna

00:25:30.540 - 00:25:43.350

respect that. Well, I would, but what I would do is go around another way, having the knowledge, the now having a knowledge of an event or some incident where some situation is a tensile thing. Having the knowledge we're to find the information is the other part

00:25:43.350 - 00:25:56.540

of being reporter. So obtaining knowledge and having knowledge is super important. And if someone commit to be in full confidence, which it's occurred and set and we'll say, Look out for so and so, or someone who is doing this or this out the record, you'll have

00:25:56.540 - 00:26:07.270

the knowledge I will not use them as a source. I try to avoid getting put in the position of having to go to jail for tip protect the sources. I had no intention of spending any time in jail what I would do that if I told

00:26:07.270 - 00:26:22.840

them I wouldn't betray their trust. I would, however, go about another way and figure out how to get that information out. If it was serious enough that it was affecting public public funds or whatever, yeah, I think that the the reality that the public has an

00:26:22.840 - 00:26:42.180

idea that there's a very formal relationship between reporters and sources, I don't think that really exists Probably 60% here of Well, I don't think it exists anywhere, anywhere, true, least not in Sacramento with my experiences, uh, probably 60% of what people tell me. I just consider

00:26:42.180 - 00:26:59.560

to be off the record and for the very reason that George outline that is that people will give you information, but they don't necessarily want to have their name attached to it in print because it becomes uncomfortable for them. And you instinctively know that you probably

00:26:59.560 - 00:27:20.850

you have the information Teoh attribute it to them is going to make them reluctant to talk Teoh in the future. And certainly you your most important, uh, resource is people who are willing to talk to you so you don't want fell out. I thought on that.

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Well, yes, I think I think one thing that was I'm more comfortable. If people do draw a line and say, Well, um, and not assume that because they're talking to me and I'm there hanging around or whatever that is off the record, I'd rather be told

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that something is definitely off the you know that they don't want their name attached to it or whatever. Um, but I think as George said that a lot of times people might know about something that's going on somewhere else or whatever. And maybe they're not the

00:27:53.600 - 00:28:09.080

first firsthand observer, the 1st 1st person that you would want for a source, but they can let you know about things that are going on. Um, we're just about out of time. We're down to about a minute. I remember going to the one thing I wanted

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to say. That one thing that I had told people that for a long time that you know the reporter If, if you're if you're on the job and you're in your officers speaking, performing a taxpayer paid function, the and the person asked you a question you

00:28:22.190 - 00:28:33.710

given answer. You really don't have a right to qualify that answer now. Maybe his policies may be that the wisdom lies in knowing what to consider their what not to go enjoy One thing I asked the question If someone says to me, Do you know about

00:28:33.710 - 00:28:46.700

so and so? I don't say no, G, tell me about it he tells me about They said, Are you OK? That quote for that or not, they say yes or no, and then I just take our I'm really sorry. It goes real fast. Maybe you guys

00:28:46.700 - 00:29:02.630

would come back again. Why not? It's interesting. Good to know what you think. Thanks, Paul. Thanks for your son's reach. It's been our pleasure. And it has been a pleasure to talk to. George Snider, Francisco Chronicle Karin Nielsen to the Bay City News Service and Paul

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Ingles, reporter for the Press Democrat. My name is Rich. McClatchy The program Sonoma County eighties. Next week we will have a member of the county government, family or perhaps three interesting people, such as our media covering the Oracle government until head. So long. Good luck. Good

00:29:17.670 - 00:29:19.060

night and good health to you all.