Sonoma County District Attorney Gene Tunney

in Omagh County, chosen spot of all the earth as far as nature is concerned, According to the famed plant wizard Luther Burbank Diverse County, with 1,010,000 acres of land and 1574 miles of scenic roadways, Cinema County is rightfully famed for its agriculture. Did a culture, industry

and recreation as well as for the amazingly successful ethnic and economic mixture of its more than 340,000 residents on for the forward looking philosophy of its local governing bodies. Now we invite you to take a closer look at Sonoma County in the eighties with your host

Rich McGlinchy on this edition of our program. We're gonna talk to a gentleman that's visited with us a time or two in the past, and he graciously consented to come back again today. His name is Gene Tunney needs to snowmen County district attorney. It's nice to

have you back nicely backwards. Yeah, in a long time, quite a while. A couple of years, at least. A lot of things have happened. Yes, anything. Gene. Before we actually get into the question and answered about you as a district attorney, your funk in your office,

that sort of thing. Many of the people perhaps have not had the chance to, uh, see you here and here. You about a little background about Jean Tony what to do before you became our district attorney, And how long have you been? Well, the answer. The

first question with last question. First, it's been about 15.5 years that I've been district attorney, and before that, I was a stockbroker and a banker for him in New York and Los Angeles. So I had a sort of very career. I decided in my mid thirties

to make a big career change and go to law school for human stakes. So that's how it all happened. And you worked on both sides of the fence. You've actually worked in the public Defender's function here many years ago. And the prosecutor, Well, when I got

out of law school, I graduated from University of San Francisco Law School. Back in the mid sixties, I first went to work in Alameda County, is a deputy district attorney, and then after I did that for two years, my wife and I wanted to come Sonoma

County. Uh, There was not a job in the district attorney's office at that time. And so I went to work with the Sonoma County Public defender's office, and I did that for three years. And then I ran for district attorney. I get once again. I think

many of our audience are not really clear on what the division of responsibilities are in the legal system and government. So what is the major functions of the county District Attorney's office or any district attorney? Well, the first function is where the chief prosecutor, as district

attorney on the chief prosecutor of Sonoma County, and that means I review or my office reviews all the complaint criminal complaint requests that are generated by arrest by the police departments by the Sheriff's Department and also by various state agencies who do investigations. So it all

comes to our office, and we make the decision whether or not a criminal case should be charged. If we decide it is going to be George, then our responsibility is to prosecuted that is tried in the courts of Sonoma County. So we we primarily responsible for

criminal charging and then the criminal prosecutions. We have other functions. We also who was a matter of fact. Nearly half my staff is involved in the so called family Support unit, which basically attempts to collect money from absentee parents who's who have had Children. Onder, who

are not helping to support their Children. And the benefit of that is, of course, it takes the the burden, or at least some of the burden off our local taxpayers and makes the parent who should be paying for their support pay for it. So that's a

very active part of it, and then we do some other things. But those are the main function, well, hygiene with all the duties. How large is the office like that isn't in regard to employers and employees rather and budget? Okay, well, it's grown, of course, a

lot since I became district attorney 15 years ago. But right now we have 30 attorneys, including myself. We have a total of 118 employees well on the total budget. If you combine both the criminal and the family support and other aspects of our offices around 5.5

$1,000,000 no, it's more operation. That comparison is when I became attorney, 1974. We had 14 attorneys, including myself, and the total budget was about a 1,000,000 1/2 dollars. So in 15 years has been an enormous growth. Chris has been a fairly large growth in population, maybe

not quite to that percentage, but but you were behind them and you're you're just trying to catch up now with growth. Well, our population. When I became district attorney in 1974 the population I remembered well, the population of Sonoma County was 210,000 people. Today it's 365

or thereabouts. So there's been a big growth, but the size of the office. As I said, nearly half of the office today is involved in the family support activity when in 1974 there was no such activity. What there was was not part of the district attorney's

office. So roughly half of the increase, at least in total employees and you know a substantial part of the budget has been due to the growth of that unit, which did not exist in 1974. It isn't just criminally say it's that kind of takes away from

your criminal. As a matter of fact. Well, not really. It's It's a totally separate activity. It's not really. It's a civil type of activity. We file civil actions and the the staff. It's physically separate from the main office, which is a problem. But there just isn't

room in the courthouse to have it on. Duh. It's over in counting town and rented premises, so it really doesn't They don't interfere with each other. It's Ah e. I think it's a valuable function. I'm glad we do it. Actually, Jean there two types of of

actions that you prosecute Runner Mr Demeanors and the others are felonies now about how maney misdemeanors have found each year. And how many felonies? Well, last year, which is, of course, the lightest statistics we have. We filed 20,000 Mr Mirrors in 2000 roughly 2000 felonies. And

that's of course, there's been the growth of the criminal activity that is, the criminal complaints has been far greater than the growth in the number of employees, or at least the ones working in the criminal side of my office. Uh, no, that, you know, that's the

fact that I think it's true You know I'm not just in Sonoma County, but everywhere, but that's been the thing. It puts us in a bind and has for years that the the the growth of our workload in the form of arrests and complaints of forced

the issue has increased a lot more quickly than the staff of the office working in criminal cases. There you mentioned the number of attorneys being 14 started 30. Now the workload increased. Then is it? Would you say that it's similar to the population increase? No money?

No, it isn't. The county population, as I indicated, is grown from 2 10 to 360,000. But in the meantime, the number of total complaints When The first year I was district attorney in 1975 which was the first complete year his district attorney, the number of complaints

we issued total felonies and misdemeanors was under 8000. So we've almost tripled. We more than tripled. I should say the number of criminal complaints and of course, we just barely doubled the number of attorneys. Alright, how about murder trials? How many murder trials are pending right

now? It's a no mechanic. Well, of course, including the I should say, the infamous case of Ramon's Placido. We have 15 butter pending waiting to go to trial. There's one in trial at this minute. Uh, we've tried already. This year we've completed two other murder trials

already, uh, ones in trial and other ones due to start early in June on duh! It just seems to go on. We do have more, I would say, serious phone and crimes, violent crimes being committed in the certainly much more than we did even five or

10 years ago. There's been a marked increase in the not your type of crime. And how Jean about how long does it take to try a felony case and what's involved? Well, what's involved is a lot, but I mean, felonies have to start off in the

municipal court. They There's a what we call a preliminary hearing that's done before municipal court judge who listens to the evidence the prosecution has and determines whether or not it is sufficient to justify formally trying this individual in Superior Court, which is the higher court, and

felonies have to be tried in Superior Court eso There's a two stage thing with felonies with a misdemeanor. It's all taken. It all takes place in municipal court, But under California system we have this too tiered structure, which takes an enormous amount of time because it

means the prosecution essentially has to put on the case twice. We have to call witnesses. They have to testify twice and so forth and so on, assuming the case of entry goes to trial. So the average felony, I would say, in Sonoma County between the time

of arrest and the time it's completed. Assuming there's actually a jury trial in Superior Court today is taking somewhere about 99 months to a year, depending some of them take far longer that the murder cases. That's right. You get to your next murder. Cases typically are

taking a year and 1/2 for two years, and some of them have taken longer. We had a case a few years ago, ended up never going to trial, but it had been in the process for three years, and then the accused hung himself in the county

jail. Eventually, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on which side you're looking from, let me go back just a minute. A felony trial uh, take several months, some of taking over a year of murder trial takes. Typically, a colony takes nine months to a year from murder. Foul

sometimes takes a long, is how long? Typically, it would take between a year and 1/2 and two years and sometimes longer than that. I don't know what an hour we don't have never kept an average, but it's very unusual for a murder trial to go to

trial. It's under a year after the arrested. Typically, as I say, a year and 1/2 to 2 years. Well, let's look into that. Just a minute. You know, I would imagine the audience might be thinking along the same lines. Why does it take that long to

try a major felony, or certainly that long to get a murder trial? Well, it's not doing crowd itself. It's taking that long course that they can take a long time. It's the whole process. Why does it take that long? Because our system in California is built

to with that result, I mean, it's inevitable that that results gonna follow because we have an unusual situation California that most states in the United States do not have. And the federal courts, for example, don't have. We have two things in our system that desperately need

reform. In my opinion, one is the preliminary hearing system, which I just mentioned felonies. You have to start and go through this and elaborate hearing at the municipal court level with witnesses call cross examined by the defense just like a trial. Except there's no jury. It's

just a judge sitting. Most states in the United States and the federal court system don't have any such thing. They have a grand jury indictment process or they have a very speeded up preliminary hearing process, which instead of taking days or weeks like ours does, they

only take a matter of minutes or hours at most. So that's one thing. The other thing, of course, is on under California state law, this business of jury selection we're talking now about a jury trial in a serious murder case. It is not uncommon for jury

selection to take longer than the rest of the trial. The rest of trial does jury selection in a serious murder case. Complicated case often takes six months or longer just to select the jury in the federal court system, for example, the jury selection process rarely takes

more than one day, even in very important trials. Why is that true? Because California permits both the prosecutor and the defense attorney to take their own sweet time in questioning the jurors in the federal court system. The the attorneys are not allowed to ask any questions.

The judge doesn't and you know he makes it. So our system is desperately needed reform. And then those are the two areas we have to do something about eliminating or at least speeding up the preliminary hearing process. And certainly we have to adopt something close to

the federal rules, which you know, which authorizes the judge to ask questions because it's, I think it's we just can't afford to spend months selecting jury So the attorneys can, you know, educate the jury. You see, I think most attorneys so egotistical they think that that

that they're selling their case and themselves to the jury, they may be doing the opposite, but they don't think of it. All right, Let's, uh, that I understand what you mean, because I've said of their once trials many, many times. Russia is the principal problem facing

the district attorney's office today. You mentioned some of the things you touched on him, but what do you feel they are? Well, the biggest problem is I mean, I guess I could sum it up by saying Is money the? But to elaborate? The fact is that

our budget, the county, the county's financial, it's not just cinemas. County's up and down the state of California are facing budget crises, and the result is that the various county departments, including the district attorney, the sheriff, are not being given the kind of funding that allows

him to keep pace with the increased population. And, you know, the increased workload created by crime and a slide from that. We've We've had a terrible We had to do a thing that I regret very much. We do not have an active consumer fraud unit. We

used to have one when I was elected to 74. That was one of the things we this office. The district attorney's office had never had a consumer fraud unit before 1974 I made that a major portion of my winning campaign to get elected that this county,

the time had come, we were big enough to need it. We need it now. Even Mawr, obviously. But the trouble was that several years ago I had to. We had had one. But I had to take the people that were working in that area and put

them in the criminal prosecution because I could not get enough staff to do the criminal work because of the money problems of the county. So, you know, that's that's are probably a number one major problem. We need additional staff to do consumer fraud. Hazardous waste, for

example, which is this county has no effective hazardous waste. And we certainly need one of those to, so I just have this problem. All right, we're gonna pass just for a moment with the station. Bring the audience a havoc service announcement, after which Gene Tunney and

I'll come back, talk more about the district attorney's office and the activities that evolved there. This is Raymond Burr. There have been important changes in our criminal justice system. Now, crime victims have rights. If you or someone you know is a victim of a crime, a

free program is available to help you learn about these rights. Pick up the phone and dial toll free 1 800 victims. Learn about victims rights and services. Call now 1 800 victims. This man will have a heart attack in 20 minutes. At first he'll think it's

indigestion, but the pain won't go away. He doesn't want to die. It just hasn't gotten around to the things he's been planning to do, like lowering his blood pressure and cholesterol, losing weight and exercising instead of passively watching others. So you catch the end of the

game. There will be no overtime. You can help prevent heart disease. We can tell you how. Welcome back to this edition of Sonoma County in the eighties were talking with Gene Tunney, the Sonoma County district attorney, and he has been for 13.5 years talking about the

operation of the district attorney's office staff so forth in the early part of the program. Now let's get to ah, some of the more serious matters that air facing you people about your comment first on something that lose in Omagh County jail is scheduled to open.

I think in July, if I I remember correctly, there's gonna cost about $44 million to build. What I wanna ask you is, in your opinion, how long before that jail is filled? Well, let me I'll make another. That another question. How long is it going to

be before the jails finished? It was supposed to been finished last full originally, The latest state they've come up with is July. I wouldn't count on that. Necessarily. Maybe so. Anyway, uh, the answer. The question is jail will be filled. The new jail will be filled

with in a very, very short time after it's opened. You know that anybody who studied science in high school was told nature abhors a vacuum. Okay. The criminal justice system of horrors. Empty jail cell. So it will be filled very, very quickly. Which points out, I

think, a very serious problem of our system, because you, uh, somewhere along the line we're gonna have to make some hard. Our society is gonna have to make some hard decisions. Do we keep building bigger and better jails bigger and better prisons. I mean, we obviously

have to incarcerate these people, but maybe it's down the line. We better start thinking of other alternatives. I'm talking about education. Most particularly, we should be concentrating, I think, on the juvenile justice system, because if you ever have any chance of diverting a young person from

a life of crime, it's at that young age. You don't do it when they're adults. We've learned that from long and sad experience. So I think we should be putting more of our resource is tax dollars into the juvenile system, which in many ways is being

short changed. And perhaps, and if we do that, we won't have to just keep building more jails and more prisons. Dream another step that comes to mind. And you hear this a great deal with people out in the in the general public. One of the major

criticism that I hear seems to be that it takes far too long between the time a person is arrested for some sort of a crime or especially a serious card and the time he or she is convicted. Now, is this true or isn't it? Well, I

think I mentioned that earlier. Yes, it is time element, right on felony and murder, but that's it's across the board. I mean, I think you know the there's some old sores, one another one is justice delayed. Is Justice denied? I think for our legal system, our

criminal legal system to serve, as you know, is a deterrent, which is to deter others from committing crimes. You make examples of those who do it besides punishment, you try to deter other people from doing the same thing. And if that element is to be effective,

you have to convey to those who might be inclined to commit crimes that if they commit him, they're going to receive speedy justice. That is, that they're going to be prosecuted and convicted in a relatively short time. I our current system part of it's because it's

overloaded. That is the courts. The prosecutor's office is up in down state, probably throughout the nation. We are not doing very well in this country. I believe with speedy justice we have. It goes back what I said earlier, I think we desperately have to reform some

aspects of our criminal justice system. It developed in an era when the population was much smaller than a lot fewer criminals. Uh, I'm not sure that we can continue this way. I think we do have to do things without, I might add, taking away from the

due process rights of criminal defendants. I think that was built into our system. And we should have that. But I don't think you're going to impinge on their due process rights by speeding up the system. That's what I'm saying, right? What would you say? I'm not

sure you've answered that here, but I want you to elaborate a little more, right? If anything could be done to make the system work more or quickly, as you have just a couple of ideas you already mentioned on still preserve the constitutional rights of the defendant.

Well, I think the two things I mentioned they're the two that come easiest and most quickly to mind. The other thing we have to do is I think, in the state, one of things that causes untold away Is this business of allowing defense attorneys to to

stall flat out stole. Everyone knows I've been a criminal defense attorney. Before I became a prosecutor, I can assure you that the when in doubt, if you have nothing else to go on, if you're representing a criminal defendant, then the thing is, you try to drag

it out as long as you can. Because, you know, the longer and the more time it takes to get this thing to trial, the greater the chances of improving your position. Because prosecution witnesses, they're going to get sick. Prosecution witnesses, they're going to die. Prosecution witnesses,

they're gonna move out of the area. Prosecution witnesses. They're just going to get damn sick and tired of being subpoenaed to court and having the thing put over. And so you delay it and you start so one of things we should dio procedurally is. And I

think it requires a mandate to require the judges because, you know, they they're the ones that make the ultimate decision on whether or not a case should be continued. But I think there should be, for instance, a system set up that a little defense motions have

to you made at the same time and the way it's done now it's done serial fashion. I mean, you make one, you have a hearing, you lose that, then you do another and you stretch it out. Something has to be done. I think the other thing

it has to be done is you. I think we should set an absolute deadline for the courts, to the prosecution that you have to bring cases to trial within a fixed number of months, Let's say, or fixed number days, 90 days, something in that sort and

you know it be hard, but I think it can be done. Okay, we've got about five minutes left to us. There's a couple more questions, particularly to get to. About two years ago, voters in California voted grows Bird and two other justices out of office and

seemingly largely because of her refusal to uphold death penalty convictions at least us with the public generally said, Uh, do you feel that that situation has changed under the new California Supreme Court? While you said that the public generally felt that Rose Bird in the California

Supreme Court under her regime is chief justice did not uphold the Death Valley. And of course, you're absolutely correct. They didn't, and that's one of the reasons I personally took as active a role as I possibly could and getting her defeated and and the other justices,

because it was clear that the California Supreme Court was opposed the death penalty and they were not prepared to carry out the mandate of the people, which was in support of the death penalty. And under the new Supreme Court with the chief justice, Malcolm Lucas, on

the other, justices have been appointed by Governor do Major. The whole situation is least, as's faras. The rulings by the Supreme Court have been concerned has totally changed and most death penalty convictions today or being upheld by the court. There are, if there are errors, legal

areas, they are being reversed by the court to So I mean, they're not just a rubber stamp, but they are essentially approving death tallies. If in fact, all the legalities have been met, they're not looking for excuses and inventing new laws to try to prevent the

death penalty from being carried out, which is what the Bird court did on a daily basis. Also, they're trying to speed up the consideration of these cases Now. The fact, though, is that we have not had a death sent. I mean an execution in California, and

I suspect it may still be a period of time, but I would think that within the next year we will start. We will have the first execution. It might even be within the next six months. The difficulty is that when a criminal defendant under our system

goes up through the state court process and he appeals, he's convicted in a jury trial. He then appeals that to the District Court of Appeals. Or if it's a death penalty case, the appeal goes directly to the California Supreme Court. It's heard there may take months

to hear it before they get around it, its audience and then he you know he'll file new appeals and ask for a new trial. Is a whole series emotions, which usually take a period of years when he finishes All at the Let's say, the California Supreme

Court upholds finally, that you know, the death Palin. Then they start a whole new track in the federal court system because under our system of law, the federal courts deal with violations of the federal Constitution on Duh. So what a person can do if they have

the money in the end, well, most don't have the money. It's done by a court appointed attorneys. No cost of the defended. They have the time, which they have lots of, uh, they simply the persistence. They just keep filing appeals and they can delay it for,

you know, years and years. And so, even though the Lucas Supreme Court, uh, California Supreme Court under General Chief Justice Lucas has a totally different attitude towards the death penalty, the fact again is is going to be continued doorways and actually implementing it because of this

incredibly complex appeal process that we have. Well, you know, that's one of the things I also hear. The years I've been working with the county and the public information function Is people saying, My God, how Maney more appeals can a case have after they've gone through

this into the state, appeals with the federal? And, as you say, it can use up a lot of years. Well, I think that's another area that has to be addressed. It has to be reformed. Clearly are again. I'm convinced that the proceedings can be speeded up

dramatically and still not deprive the individual criminal defendant of his basic central due process constitutional rights to a fair trial. But the current situation, although it's better than it may have been several years ago, and I think the federal courts, especially the United States Supreme Court,

is trying to speed the process up. The fact is that it's still our our system of this dual track appeal is, ah, designed Teoh because years and years in the way, and I don't think it's necessary. Other I mean England, for example. Our legal system is

essentially based on English system in England, the appellate process. Once you're convicted by jury trial, the appellate process takes a couple of months, and that's it. And there's no reason we couldn't do something. Well, it's a year. Yeah, we'll say. But I mean, take a 78

or more years is outrageous. I personally feel one recently of nine years. We're out of time. Sorry to hear that. It's been interesting real pleasure to see you again. You're often and pleasure to hear from. You hear about the district attorney's office, Ladies and gentlemen, special

guest of this tradition of cinema can in the eighties has been Gene Tunney, Sonoma County district attorney, and I think you may have enjoyed an update on the district attorney's office, and what's happening on account of my name is Richman clarity the program. So McCann in

the eighties, Exactly the next week with another member of the county government. Family killin alone Could left the night. Could help. Uh, you know.