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in Omagh County, the chosen spot of all the earth as far as nature is concerned, according to the famed plant wizard Luther Burbank Diverse County, with 1,010,000 acres of land on 1574 miles of scenic roadways, Cinema County is rightfully famed for its agriculture did a culture,

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industry and recreation, as well as for the amazingly successful ethnic and economic mixture of its more than 340,000 residents on for the forward looking philosophy of its local governing bodies. Now we invite you to take a closer look at Sonoma County in the eighties with your

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host, Rich McGlinchy. How you doing, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Sonoma County in the eighties. We're gonna be talking about the subject architecture. Tonight we'll talk to two gentlemen who are experts in the steel. They are architects. On the right of your television screen is

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Lawrence or as we call him, Larry Diamond's was a little architect here and has that other designation behind his name about him tell you about that moment and on the left green. Is Renee card in a card? No, and Rene is the architect for the county

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of Sonoma and heads our detective division out there. It's nice to have you here. Thank you. You were with me last year for use. We were talking about visiting for a long time, Finally got you here. Thank you for inviting me before we actually get into

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the questions and answers about architect and its importance to us all. I'm a little background about you too, as individuals. Like, where do you come from? Where you go to school. What do you do before you located here? Start with. Okay. Well, um, I was born

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in Iowa and, um, educated in San Luis Obispo, Cal Poly. And then, after graduating from Cal Poly really was my goal to find the environment that I thought was beautiful from an environmental point of view and a place that I could practice architecture. And so, uh,

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um, I started in in Los Altos Palo Alto area and then 22 years ago, then came up to Santa Rosa. And I'm very happy that I made that I lost offices. Beautiful. Every detail worked under many years ago. That's beautiful spot, but I think we've got

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probably one of the nicest. Thanks. So how about you? Every day? Well, uh, see, I was born in French Morocco came United States when I was about 18 years old, and but I was educated totally here. And, uh, I went to Cal at Berkeley to get

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my education in architecture. And I started to practicing architecture in private practice in the Bay Area, San Francisco for the last 20 years, basically. And they came to live in Sonoma County about 12 years ago. And when the opportunity came to work for the county, I

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felt it was a good move so I could move my practice up here instead of trying to commute to San Francisco every day. And here I am. Yeah, And you've accomplished a great deal for the county, and we could get into that in a moment. I

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imagine people watching the program right now are entertaining the same question. Why did you decide to become an architect? Well, actually, for me it was a little bit, uh, it wasn't a childhood ambition. It was something that I could really kind of fell into. I was

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taking engineering at the at the time in Los Angeles to be a civil engineer and I I stated to one of my friends one night when we were studying physics. I just can't see doing this the rest of my life. And he just arbitrarily said, Well,

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you like to draw, said, Why don't you don't you look into architecture? And so I did, And, um, it was a very good choice for me to have made for two. It just moved very, very much. Yes. Uh, really reason for being coming it artifact. It

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was a childhood ambition for myself. I think as long as far back as I can remember, I was always attracted to the process of building buildings and getting involved in all the things that humans do. You know, where they eat, where they sleep and play. And

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it just attracted me right from the beginning, and I never really thought about doing anything else. That's great. It's really wonderful. Have picked about picture career, if you will. That early on. And of course, it was pretty fortunate for you, too, to mention that to your

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friend that night. You know, uh, without that thought very, very much. So neither of you would be here. Uh, you are both architects. But what does the title that goes behind an architect if you have certain honors. Well, uh ah. Lot of registered architects are members

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of the AI A. Okay, and that's American Institute of Architects. And so I have been a member of the A I both as a student. When I was in school, it was a student chapter and then since I've been in in in practice, So that a

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is American Institute of Architects. And, um, it was just this last weekend that the A I felt that, uh, my contributions from a design standpoint were important to the profession. And they of attacked on another designation, which is called the Fellow in the AI, which I

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received along with 44 other people in the United States. And then there were 10 other countries also that the AI had honored, also including the Soviet Union. The president of the Architects Association from the Soviet Union was there who received his fellow in the I, too.

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So it was really quite a quite a great honor. And, uh, it was a very nice experience for myself and kind of ah, part of a really satisfaction in my career, too. Well, the AI is that pretty much is that it's something like the medical is

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that I m a m a. Do all architects belong to that or not? No. It's a voluntary I see organization. I think it's it serves a great purpose and that most architects, that it belonged to the to the A because it represents architects in government situations,

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in the way laws were drafted in the rights and in the licensing. And EAI gets very involved in that, and it's a very beneficial organization to the profession. But it's not mandatory. Well, architecture and this is a personal opinion is a is and can be aesthetic

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blessing to the world in general, you know, Or it could be a curse, I presume. I'm not quite sure where you divide that, except that, you know, architect could design a magnificent building. Tall could be broad, can be whatever. And it could be a magnificent sight,

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something that you know your human eye enjoys. Or it could be as Frank Lloyd Wright, I think, once said, But some things can look like a sore on the landscape, almost, and I'm sure neither Have you ever thought of designing such buildings? But how have you

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eat set out to accomplish the purpose? Is that the architect in your demands? Well, it's a difficult question. I guess you basically do the best you can. I think what you have to do is you have to. You know what defines good architecture, I think, depends

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on awful lot on the viewers point of view. If you work in the building, then if it's a comfortable building, and if it gives you a sense of well being and then it's a good then it is a good building, it isn't simply the person driving

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by that says Boy, that's a very good looking building, and that's that's one aspect. And we all strive to make the building look good from the passer buyer. But the measure of a good building if fire goes beyond just its simple looks, it has to meet

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the requirements of the people using it. It asked The last it has to, whether the heat from the sun as to whether the rain and so there's an awful lot of of aspects to what I've defined to be a good building right? Actually. Well, uh, myself

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And how it relates to I'm how how I am presently practicing architecture. Actually, uh uh. I'm the rial title would be architect developer, because what we're doing now, my partner, Jim Brecht, in myself, Who's another who's also an architect. We're developing our own projects now. These

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projects air really there. They're based on again a lot of the things that Renee pointed out, which are people's needs. What are their functional needs and what are their spiritual needs to? And it has a lot to do with how it building works. I think it

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has to do to with something how it looks, how it feels, how the person, each person within that environment, how they feel as faras their own dignity goes. So we're doing a project right now. We've been working on now for all over 11 years. We've put

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our first building up about six years ago at Stony Point Office Park. We're stuck. We're about to start on a another 20 acre project, which is another 300,000 square feet, which has to do with this thing of the sociology relating to architecture and how it affects

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people We're trying to do a project that for the office worker and what are his daily needs, Uh, rather than to hop in his car when lunchtime comes and clutter up the clogged the streets as it was difficult for me to get here today, Uh, we're

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putting in a large lake. It's a two acre lake with four restaurants and a commercial center oriented toward the office worker and another. There will be a population of probably when the pockets finally finished out of 3000 people there. So we're trying to create a total

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environment where somebody can be feel really good about going toe work and everything is there for them to partake all in for that whole day. Well, I could see where my thought about just the visual part of it was just just scratching the surface of taking

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that as you drive by places the attractive building does catch your eye, and it is a pleasure and sometimes somewhere kind of stand out at you. But I can see what you're busting, and I didn't really stopped to think of this is being such an important

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part of our detector, and that is designing the building with human beings going to use it in mind and, as you say, a feeling comfortable feeling, satisfied in it. Human dignity, exhibiting itself, that tremendous. I didn't realize honestly, before we started chatting here that you considered

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all those things because that's that's psychology. A great deal of it goes into your your design, in your case, Well, or in your case, you do. You design buildings. You design your restructure things. I know for the county. Um, is it working? Are you satisfied with

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your approach to? Well, slowly, nothing. Nothing happens overnight, I think. No, no, no, not with government. I think it is working on. But I think part of it has to be recognized that the building costs the facilities to Teoh. I have a business run to have

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a government run or something are often times overrated in terms of expense that as an example, if you were going to spend $10 million on a building and everybody says Oh my God, they're spending all this money on a building if you really put it in

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perspective of the amount of salaries and the expenses and the cost of operating the facility with the people in the operation. The cost of the building becomes a very small portion of the actual investment that goes on in that area. And so, over the long run,

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the cost of the building doesn't contribute as much to the overall cost as the labor and so on. If the place is a comfortable place to work and the people's attitudes are better and they feel better about themselves and the public coming in feels good about

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being there as a result of the facilities. Then the transactions air Dunmore politely there, Dunmore pleasantly and people are happier and they come to work more, more on time. And they did so there's less reason to not be there. If so, I think that slowly as

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we improve the facilities when I came to work for the county, which was a little over four years ago, and still to this day, there's an awful lot of people working in areas with no windows or with inadequate air or inadequate space, and that affects people

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morale and affects their ability to get along with other people. I think it's been improving, and I think it continues to improve on. The supervisors are looking at a master plan, which will increase our comfort level, if you will, so people can function better. And if

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they are comfortable mentioned dignity. And you mentioned comfortable feeling what feeling well being there didn't from what more productive that you think is best. And if nothing else, they become more optimistic and more pleasant to deal with. And we all know that government workers don't always

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have the reputation of being the most pleasant with public. Oh, I'm wondering just to follow that thought for a few seconds. Um, the structure itself is feel, then perhaps lends itself to the short temperatures. In some cases of people, another government river really concerned itself very

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much in the past with the thought you're thinking about. I don't think I'm not sure I can't speak for the architecture built everything, But I know many of them just put together at order from from the government, the most in expansion safe, saying building they could

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build and not aesthetics or your feelings. Are you feeling well being was never really considered years ago. I don't know how long this has been going on, but it's a heck of a good idea. I think it's still true. I think it's politically expedient to not

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spend a lot of money on public facilities. I mean, the politicians tend to I want to keep the cost down because that's gets him re elected, and I don't blame him. But I think you have to recognize that good facilities not only last longer and require

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less maintenance, but the attitude of people eyes better. The other thing is, is that public architecture somewhat represents what we as a civilization as a group believe is worthwhile doing. And if we're going to build a new hall of Justice, or if we're going to build

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a facility for public use, it should represent are better efforts. Rather than spending our money on necessarily on just on freeways or anything else. Architecture does represent what we feel about ourselves and the institutions. Absolutely, uh, Joe's it, uh, it shows a great deal about us.

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What were the things we build? I'm sure we're gonna have to pause for a moment. Let's station bring the audience of public service announcements, after which Larry's time and make our you know what I will return. We'll talk more about the very important subject of architecture.

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First, these messages. This is Raymond Burr. There have been important changes in our criminal justice system. Now crime victims have rights. If you or someone you know is a victim of a crime, a free program is available to help you learn about these rights. Pick up

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the phone and dial toll free 1 800 victims. Learn about victims rights and services. Call now 1 800 victims. There are hundreds of good reasons to protect our farm lands, and you could eat them all. Chicken and eggs, honey and land. We got strawberries, raspberries, jellies,

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jams, lettuce and chard, mushrooms, peas, radishes, carrots, milk and cheese. There's lemons, apples, avocados and oranges, asparagus and broccoli, and nothing rhymes with orange is our farm lands don't have a political lobby, and farmers don't work hard for a hobby. So please enjoy our local bounty

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and God bless in Omagh County. Protect the heart and soul of Sonoma County. Ask your grocer or local for a product. Welcome back to Sonoma County in the eighties were talking about the important subject of architecture we're talking with on the right. Here's me, Larry Simon's.

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And also on the left is green Renee, cardinal and gentlemen. We touched on several subjects in parts of the subject of architecture early on. But blurring. Let's start with you how much architecture relate to the economics of the community. Well, again, I think that architecture, as

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as Renee mentioned earlier, it relates to the productivity's people for talking about commercial our picture. Right now, it relates to the productivity of people. And so the more tools that you can give people to be productive, the more that it relates to their output, their productive

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output, the more that relates to their mental health and actual physical health. And, uh, the more profitable on economically sound that is for our entire community. So it has a really effect. It has a really economic effect, uh, upon the community and in fact, upon our

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whole nation. Really, because we're now competing really with the world and productivity? Absolutely. Would you add to that for those thoughts I don't have a whole lot to add, except that having being a building owner in essence, in my job, the continuing maintenance and use of

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the building is very expensive and a building that's well built and has good products in it. To begin with, such as good roofing or good, citing or anything has a tendency to last a lot longer, uses less energy and so on. So the economics of a

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building shouldn't be measured in its initial cost, totally, because they effects the use of energy and everything for many, many years. So it does affect the economy of an area. Well, got it down here. We mentioned social aspect, well being, self esteem and environment. All these

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air vitally important, and they're important by products of a well designed building and perhaps absent to some degree in a poorly designed building. Would you say that you will start with you and Rene? Would you say your aspirations and your own personal goals are being met

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through your architecture? It's an interesting question, because I don't practice too much architecture anymore. I hire a lot of architects, and I represent the county in negotiating with architects and in getting buildings built. But yes, I think my aspirations are being met in a different way

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than I had originally expected. When I first started practicing architecture as the representative of the county. In many cases, I I can influence and the quality of the buildings and what we get for our dollar. I feel that public architecture can be every bit as economical

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to build as private architecture is. And I think that I've been able to do that. And I think that getting good quality in the buildings, getting your money's worth it's worthwhile goal as long as well as good architecture. And I think that we're succeeding in that.

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What do you thought on the tour? Well, actually, I'd have to end answer the question rich by saying, quite frankly, uh, the things that have happened to me in my career have been, quite frankly, beyond my expectations of when I have when I started as a

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young architect and I really have to give this credit to, I think Sonoma County, because Sonoma County is very fertile place, a very fertile ground in which to express. I think quality architecture try to translate these kind of, um, aspirations that the human being needs and

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indeed this whole area and the people in this area really want because really, architecture in our whole environment is a reflection on the consciousness of the people that live here. So if you have a very highly conscious population or civilization, the architecture will reflect that. And

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I think indeed in Sonoma County, Sonoma County is lauded for the quality of some of the architecture that's here. And I think that's a tribute, really, to the people that live here in support, that kind of thing that takes us back to two past history of

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the golden age of Greece and Rome. The structures built their represented, I guess the thinking and the of the people of the time. But they have been some memorable member, whether there is all that functional as they might be. And that certainly knows, Well designed is

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what you gentlemen putting together these days that those things have lasted through, what thousands of years, you know as well and they're visited by millions of people. So there's gotta be something something said for the architecture of the past. Really, I wanted to ask you this.

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You're on our broadcast supervising the architectural function for the for the entire county. And if you said you employ architects, in some instances, how did the county accomplish what you are doing now before you came on board. I really don't know. I have really well, obviously,

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it's gotten more efficient, but I think part of it is that, has Larry pointed out, the county is growing the needs of the county. You're growing, and it became evident that they were going to be going through a lot of buildings in the next, you know,

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in the growing phase. And that can't be accomplished without really having somebody in charge of knowing what's going on. So part of it is the fact that the county grew up and is slowly just getting into a major metropolitan area. And so our needs change. Well,

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as you certainly Larry here, touch with it all the time, and certainly you observe it today. Each day we live, the county continues to grow, and it's a desirable place to live. Many, many people have found that, and as a result, they want to live here

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with us. All just means we're gonna have to build more homes to some degree, and we're going to certainly have to build a lot more commercial buildings. In your opinion, are we to the point where we must build up rather than out. Would we be really

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well advised to do go up rather than what are you thinking about this? Well, I I think in certain areas, if you're going to meet the policies and the goals and the aspirations of what our leaders in the counties and cities want, which is city centered

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growth, it really means that you are going to have to concentrate square footage. You have to going to have to concentrate people in certain areas. The downtown seems to me to be a new area that you would want to concentrate. Uh, growth. You would want to

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concentrate a certain amount of density. That means going up. And, uh, I think, quite frankly, going up in a few instances, Really, Kid could be a landmark kind of structure for the entire region. I do not see and I don't I don't indoors the idea of

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the downtown of Santa Rosa becoming a Siris of, ah, high rise buildings with canyons. But I do see that there could be high rise buildings, a few of them that would act as the focal point for for our region. And I think that's probably situation you're

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talking about. Exactly right. You know, I thought many times I don't know what you're thinking is an architect. But when the county government center was built in the late fifties and some of them finished in the sixties, the the idea what Sonoma County was forever going

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to remain small was never gonna be what it is because it is today and certainly is big, nearly as big as it will be. The result is we have a lot of one story buildings out of the county, the only two story buildings being the whole

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of justice and social service department. Was this a great mistake? I don't think it was a mistake. Times change. Yeah, but I completely concur that the density of architecture buildings in the urban areas has to increase. I think that the very things that make other areas

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of California that I won't go into detail but that don't that that where they lose their attractiveness is where you have a constant density for miles and miles and miles, and nobody knows they've gone from one city to the next. I think that it's nice to

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have urban centers toe have green areas between them and that somebody that you can actually drive from one city to another city know that you've left the city and then reach another one on. The only way that could be accomplished is to leave some green areas

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between the cities greater and to get more dense into downtown. And it's inevitable. And anybody that doesn't do that is going to destroy an area. The tall buildings don't destroy an area. It's the covering of all the land does that and the areas that I consider

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not worth visiting. Now we're the ones that are monotonous, that gofer for miles and miles between cities and never give you a break in Europe, especially, is beautiful because of its ability, two distinctly separate cities and we still have that in Sonoma County, and I'd hate

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to lose it. Oh, yeah, I agree with that. I agree to go right back. I will. I concur with both, but you're thinking both of your individual thinking on this respect. It seems to me that if we do not have separators between the communities of, we've

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made a big mistake, we've lost something that we never reclaim. That way uh, recently we had chairwoman of the Board of Supervisors, Janet Nicholas, on one of our programs. That one of the things she seemed most pleased about in the general plan, which is reaching fruition

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now is that there are separators being left between the communities. And this is a necessity, something we must retained. And the only way we can retain that is, as he says, in some cases, we must go up instead of out. It's part of the beautiful, but

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we've got about Ah, rest in a minute. Do you have any final thoughts? No, but it's a pleasure to live in Sonoma County, and I think it's the right place to be at this time. I think so too. Thank you, Mary. Thank you. Just talked about

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getting together for a long time. The front. Thank you for inviting. Yes. And thank you for your thoughts. Very, for being with us. Ladies and gentlemen, we've been talking to Lawrence Marries diamonds and Renee card No, to architecture in Hanover County. We're talking about the importance

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of architect to us all 100 homes, but in our cities and our business communities and certainly in the buildings in which we work. My name is Rich McClatchy. The program of Sonoma County in the eighties. I'll be back with you next week. Until then, good luck.

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Good night and good health to each and everyone.