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Yeah, my name is Maxine Swinger. I am 17 years old. Today is May 12th, 2023. I'm Everest Rose. I am 18 years old and today is May 12th, 2023. Uh We are speaking with Yvonne, who is our interviewee about LGBT Q plus things and we are

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recording this interview in California, Sebastian. Ok. Now let's get to our questions. You should have these up. Ok? Um If you had any job, if you could have any job, what would it be like? What's your dream job? Whether it be like the job you actually

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had or something you yearned for? You mean when I was a young person? Sure. Yeah. Or no, it's up to you. Well, my dream job right now is to not have a job in my dream job when I was young. I wanted to be an attorney,

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but my mother said that women are teachers, librarians or secretaries and she made me learn shorthand. No, that's messed up. That's pretty messed up. Um And then who is a special person who made a difference in your life and why, um the person that made a

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difference in my life was uh, Doctor Joy Buchanan. She was from Scotland. Um, and she was an OBGYN, but I had no idea what that was, but she took care of me when I was a young woman. And what's an OBGYN? Oh, you have some fun

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times ahead of you, dear, of obstetrics and gynecology. And, yeah, I've heard about that one. Yeah. And she just took care of you. She was my physician but, but she, and then she referred me, I had a lot of um joint problems and broken things, bones

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and stuff. So, but she was a lovely, lovely woman and I actually named my daughter after Joy. Beautiful. Ok. And then what is your favorite memory from childhood? The title. My favorite memory is probably going to Longwood Gardens um which is on the east coast and

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um it's a botanical garden. Um and it, it has uh hot houses and it has outdoor forest and plants up the Yang Yang. So um my father left when I was five but he would take me there occasionally. But that is so sweet. I love botanical

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gardens. They're my favorite. Ok, Maxine. Now you're in question. Um What have you accomplished that made you proud? Oh, well. Um Right. I was in college and I worked for mcdonald's and I made them, let me cook. It wasn't the cooking that made me proud, but

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it was the fact that women didn't do the cooking. They had to wait on the customers and, and, you know, customers can be not so sweet. So, so I did that. And then when I got older, I continued with my rebellion. I was the first, um,

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salaried firefighter in Napa County. That's amazing. I was, I was very proud of that, but mostly I did that so I could become an EMT and then I went on to nursing school. Um, I'm also, I'm also probably most proud of my daughter. Um, she's a

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really nice person. That is so sweet. Yes. She's just a good person. She's a better person than I am. Um, and also I, I became a registered nurse at age 37 and then went on to teach nursing. I teach, I taught it at, uh, Napa Valley

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College. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. So, that's a lot of things. Well, I mean, that's good. You got a lot of things to be proud of. It sounds like. Yeah, lots of time. When do you feel that you got your freedom? Oh, that's a, that's a

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tough question because I came out and, you know, people were pretty, pretty secret. Um, I think, I think when, um, when I went to places that were specifically for lesbians but most of the time, especially after I had my daughter, I, people just considered me a

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Napa housewife. You know, it's not like I had to wear a pink triangle. I, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Having a space is very important right now too. What advice would you give your younger self? Ok. Probably, probably the, to be more active and to fight harder

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for things I believe in. I, I was pretty shy although it doesn't sound like it sometimes, but I was pretty shy. Yeah. That's good. That's a good one. And we have a few extra questions. Um, what was your childhood like? And I know I can't even

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remember my, um, I need a, it was, it was a mixture of horrible and wonderful, wonderful because I had to get away from the horrible. So I spent a lot of time, uh, alone in the woods. I, I built things and stuff. Um, and also we

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live, we live next door to some people that were, um, Quakers and very affluent. Have you ever heard of double, double bubble bubble gum? Oh, yes. Oh, wow, that's impressive. Yeah, I love that. Wow. And so they kind of took me under their wing because things

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were not pretty at home. So I'm glad that you had them. That's good. Did you grow up in Napa? No, I grew up in Pennsylvania all over the place. Um, do we have, do we wanna ask any questions? Um, I guess the one last thing you

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have, um, who has been the most influential person in your life that E Trevethan, who is that she's, um, she's a professor at Napa Valley College who in Sonoma, uh, had the same thing, but she did, uh, classes in women's studies and this is back in

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the seventies. Um, and she was, she was out and had a wonderful partner and, uh, she, she, uh, taught classes in assertive training for women. Um, and non, non violent communication. And she, she really was, she was a cornerstone in my life, was a coworker or

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a teacher. She was a teacher and I was a student at the time. And then I just kind of wanted to ask because I feel like this is just like a good question is like, what does prede mean to you? I think pride means that you're

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at a point in your life where you fully accept that you just, this is, this is what you were dealt. It's ok. And if anybody doesn't like it, they can, you know, but lost seriously, seriously buzz. Ok. Well, I think those are all of our questions.

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Do you have anything else you want? I don't think so. Do we just, do we have a wait, do we? Now? Let's scroll. 00. Do you want to answer more questions or? We can do some of it's really early. We've only been at just 10 minutes

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or so. Let's do we already kind of did that one. I did. I already did that. Oh, yeah. That's how would you like to be remembered? Maybe just to make sure how would I like to be remembered? Um, me a second. More like, exactly. I know.

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That's a hard question. It's a difficult question. I, I, I'd like to be remembered. Um, probably, um, when I, when I was teaching nursing as someone who could really provoke my students to, to do some critical thinking, I really, uh, I think that's really, really important.

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I mean, because you can wrote memory, whatever, whatever the, the books they in front of you, but to be a real thinker and to be progressive and to be able to act on it is really important, especially as a teacher. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Do you have

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any regrets in your life? Mhm. Do I have any regrets? Could be anything that could be like a teeny one or, or nothing or nothing? Maybe. No, I, I don't think so. I think that, I think that sometimes we make some f foolish choices but if

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true, it would be regretful if I didn't learn from it. That's true. And it brings you to the person you are today. Yeah, that's very true. Ok. See if there's anything else, if this were, that seems a bit dire. Ok. I think. Oh, no, a curious

00:11:23.280 - 00:11:45.369

person. Oh, that's kind of cute. Ok. Wait for your great, great grandchildren listening to this years from now. Is there any wisdom you'd want to pass on to them? What you want? Oh, you better take good care of this earth because we're really messing with it

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and, and I apologize for that. I won't have any great, great grandchildren. My daughter doesn't think it's appropriate to bring Children into the world the way it is, which is kind of di, um, but yeah, we need, we, um, we need to change things around immediately.

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Yeah, they're saying immediately. Yeah, there's some kind of graph where we're walking towards doomsday. We've crossed some major, major. Uh, yeah. And a lot of the don't seem to care very much, which is really disappointing for sure. Ok. Anything else? I think that all of them,

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let me see if I can remember what I was gonna ask, think, think, think, think, think, think, did you get it? Ok. Um Well, I guess, do we just press n um, will you tell us a special story that's happened in your life, please, please? Sure.

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I will. Um, I, I'll tell you the story when I realized that I was a lesbian. That's a good one. So when I went to college, which was 100 years ago, um, I did not know that there, I knew there were queers and I knew there

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were fags excuse but desperate, desperate. And I, and I only thought that they were men because surely women wouldn't behave in a way like that. Yeah. And then I graduated and I worked for the State Hospital in, in Napa. And um, I met, I met two

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women and they were partners and they had purchased a home together and they did not have a white picket fence if they had a dog and they had a son. Um, and they said, but I mean, they, they looked at me and they probably figured something,

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I don't know what, not a napa housewife. And they took me to the pride parade in this and I think it was in 76 but I'm not sure Anita Bryant was on a rampage. But anyway, I was going and I was looking at all the people

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and it was pretty, pretty interesting and pretty fun. And then I see photographers for the news stations with their cameras rolling and I thought they're gonna think I'm a lesbian. That to, oh, well, that's ok. And so that's after that. I mean, I was still careful

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but at least I knew myself. Yeah, that's a good thing to know yourself. It's kind of hard. I know it to be a lot of things. Definitely. There's a lot, you got kind of a lot of pressure to, like, label yourself too. I feel like sometimes,

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yeah, there is pressure. I struggled with that too. I know my daughter said maybe they'll ask you if you, you know the pronouns that I use and I just say I'm, I'm Yvonne. That's it. You know, you don't want to. So, anyway, that's, that's, that's the

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story that stuck with me. Yeah, that's a good one. I really like that story. Thank you for sharing. Oh, you're very welcome. I pops. Yeah. Ok. Do you feel accepted now? Why, or why not? Oh, I feel accepted now because you hit a certain age and

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you just really don't give a damn. I'm excited for that age. You know, there's, there's, there's no more have to. Um, and so, yeah, and, and if, if someone doesn't like it, it's too bad but it pretty much my social circles are pretty, pretty defined at

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this point in my life. So you just get to choose who you hang out with when you don't have to go to a workplace or school just gotta find the right people. Was it hard for you to feel accepted earlier on in your life? Um, I

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think it was, I think it was very hard for me. Um, from probably day one of school because I can't speak English. Oh, wow. What did you speak French? We only spoke French in the household and beautiful. I love French. It's, it's a beautiful language. It

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really is. Um, and so I didn't know what the heck was going on. That sounds so confusing. Oh, my gosh. And my mom said if you don't understand something, just say no. Which, when that's turned off, I'll tell you something else. But, um, yeah, so, yeah.

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And then, so basically I was a foreigner in this country, um, with, and my grandmother raised me a lot and she was born in, uh, 1893 and there's certain certain ways that women are supposed to behave and act and, and I, I wasn't buying it. It's

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just, you know, I, I remember some people that were taking care of me, they didn't have Children. And on a Friday, her husband handed her an envelope and it, it had cash in it and I asked her, what is that? And she said that's my allowance.

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That was my reaction. I was eight years old and it was like what I said, but you work, you work all day long and that was her allowance. And so it was like none, this is not for me. That was at age eight. But yeah, but

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anyway, as I got older and, and more integrated into our society in the United States, I did fine. Yeah, it's good that you don't care anymore. Uh, what is a difficult time or event in your life that has shaped you and contributed largely to your life?

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No. Sorry, that's long. Yeah. No, that's ok. An event in, in life that has shaped me. Ok. Um, probably, um, probably working at uh Napa State Hospital with a criminally insane. Oh, yeah. Um, I, I chose my back to the wall. Um, yeah, and I, and

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I, I, my daughter swears that I, I have some shadows from that. But, um, yeah, probably. Yeah, that makes sense. Is that ok? What is a difficult wait, that one? Wait. Oh, ok. Sorry. What are some valuable lessons? That you've learned that you wish you could

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have told your younger self or just in general or just in general valuable lessons you've learned just to share with. Stick up for yourself. Oh, yeah. Really? Stick up for yourself. And especially, especially in the, in, as a woman, whether you be straight or queer or

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whatever, they're gonna run right over you. I don't know if you noticed, but even, even today, and I see the, I see the young people at your school women will be talking to each other and, uh, a male will walk in and they turn around to

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see what he has to say and it's like, you know what? He has nothing more important to say that than what you were saying. You know. So, I, yeah, my younger self, I'd say no, turn your back on them and I worked with doctors, turn your

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back on them too if they're rude and interrupt, that's the best thing you can do. Ok. Do you want to pause to? How is your pa, oh, no, we're going. Yeah, that, that, that means it's recording. Oh, I see. Oh, you push it to make it.

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Yeah. Um, how has your life been different than what you imagined as a teenager? That's a real good one. Oh, I didn't get married and have Children to a man. Yeah. Well, I didn't get married to a man and have Children with the man that's very

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different. Didn't do that one. Uh, and you like to have this. Yeah. The, who, who contributed the most to your perspective of the world? I want to. Wow. Oh, that's, that's a, that's a hard one. That's a hard one. Um, yes, I, I don't have an

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answer for you in that one. That's totally fine if you pause it. Yeah. Let's pause it. Tell me about the love of your life. Oh, no wonder you felt sh this, um, wow, it's a, it's a confusing question and I'll tell you why without answering it,

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I remember I was raised a lot by my grandmother, 1893 very Catholic. And so I was brought up both in the Catholic church and Quaker schools and a, and a female. And therefore you must not be a loose woman. So when you get to a certain

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age, you know, your body thinks some things are a lot of fun and therefore you must love them rather than be a loose woman. And so I think when I was a lot younger that I got to know people and then I decided that I love

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them so that I could have intimacy with them. And maybe I did and maybe I didn't, who knows when you look backwards? Totally. But probably my cat was always my love that I love my cat. I kind of want to ask about the enemies. That's kind

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of, you can do that. Ok? You don't have to answer this. It's just a bit of a funny question on here. Um, do you have any enemies? Do I have any enemies or did you have any enemies? Maybe they're not still going but past or present?

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Yeah. Uh, y yeah, probably. And, and it was a very weird situation but when I was a firefighter, um, II, I worked with a man on the fire department and at the same time I was, um, of friends with his wife, um, not, not intimate friends,

00:23:31.630 - 00:23:54.260

just regular friends and she was filing for custody for her Children and he was a horrible man. I mean, he was just, he, I mean, everything imaginable that you could think of that a man could do and later found out it, it the worst. So I

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testified and, and he declared that I would be his enemy and, and, and I thought, well, that's pretty tricky because we're gonna be in the fire department together and we're gonna be on a hose together and, and really we have to, he could put me in

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Carol not long after that. Um, he went to, he went to prison for child pornography and he lost, they gave custody of one son to him and one to the mother, which I don't understand it all after he got arrested and then he got arrested for

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child pornography. So he was probably an enemy which not to have enemies. You know, he's supposed to turn the other cheek sometimes. That's hard to do. Black guy on. Um, did you have a one Maxine I have in my head. Oh, my God. Well, they're just

00:24:52.109 - 00:25:18.900

really going with the enemy. Hated who is, who is? Ok. Ok. How did you feel when gay marriage was legalized? I thought it was wonderful. I mean, really, you know, love is love. Um, it is what they say but then some people don't believe that. But,

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yeah, it was wonderful. It was about time. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. The federal government will tax you rather strangely. I bet. God. But anyway, yeah. Yeah, it was, it was about time. Definitely long overdue. Ok. Do you have one? Have you ever felt discriminated against because of

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your sexuality? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um, I worked in a nursing education department at Napa State Hospital and, um, so my daughter was a teenager. The, and I, I heard, well, I, first of all, they, they gave assignments of the classes. Um, and, and some of the

00:26:13.319 - 00:26:29.770

classes were eight hour a day classes, four in the morning, four in the afternoon and I was expected to teach for eight hours. Oh, my gosh. You know, um, and some of the classes were, you know, show this film and I got an inordinate amount of

00:26:29.780 - 00:26:50.380

the long classes. Um, and also sometimes they would schedule and then the secretary, um, not to be named, don't ever look it up either and she would change the schedule and she, she had her favorites and they were cute, blonde, straight women and then there was

00:26:50.390 - 00:27:09.619

me and, um, but then one time I heard her talking to one of my, my male coworkers and I heard them talking about me and they said she's an abomination. Wow. Oh, my. Well, I didn't know what the word meant. So I had to ask my

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daughter, I went home and ask my daughter. Yeah. Yeah, that was pretty hurtful. It hurt them. Then you should have. You should have, but they would have denied it. I mean, I was the only witness but people are just so hateful. They are. And we live

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in California. Can you imagine being in Florida right now? It's terrible. That's really scary. Ok. And then, uh, 00, I just have a question. Sorry. It's ok. Um, oh, how old is your daughter now? Oh, she's half 70. So that makes her 35. I got to

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warn she's here. Oh, really? Oh, she would be the tallest, largest woman in the room. Got it. Well, I would love to see her here so I can't see where beans they had to tell me we're number three. She was having a hard time looking for

00:28:09.135 - 00:28:28.954

it. It was confusing. Not in order. Ok. Well, she sounds wonderful. She does. She's a good person. Well, she was raised by a good person. Thank you. Do you live in Sebastopol? Oh, yeah. How long have you lived here for 13 years? Wow. Why did you

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move here? Um, Napa, it keeps going dark dark. It's ok. It's still recording. Uh, I think Sonoma County is more liberal for sure. Sonoma County has a, a gay friendly square dance club called Rainbows. Is right over there. We hall. That's awesome. And, uh, so I

00:28:59.189 - 00:29:22.869

started dancing there. Um, and also I had very good friends that lived in Sebastopol. Um, but then they moved away and also Napa County is determined not to have any open, open land. Everything is housing, housing and wineries and, and who can literally p is the

00:29:22.880 - 00:29:38.089

most expensive wine. I just didn't sit there. No, it's ridiculous. I like, I like Sonoma County too because of all the beautiful land that there is here. It's pretty nice. We still have open tomorrow and Sebast, I'd say because I've noticed that in Santa Rosa they're

00:29:38.180 - 00:30:02.689

sort of way it filling itself up. Yeah. Yeah, I hope, I hope they preserve it because I know. Oh, I like, oh, wait, but you maybe kind of already answered that. Oh, I like this. Um What is your personal favorite part of being a queer person

00:30:02.699 - 00:30:31.790

or experience that you had that was unique to your queerness. He, I don't know if there's a favorite part to it. Um Other than then you, you, I spend company with other queer people and they're a lot of fun. Um, people are pretty awesome. Yeah. Um

00:30:32.869 - 00:30:51.790

and straight people manage to, when they're around, queer people manage to announce their straightness in, in about 30 seconds. That is very true. I've noticed that you, do you, do you talk to a straight woman and she will mention her husband within 30 seconds of the

00:30:51.800 - 00:31:21.459

conversation. Um, so, but you keep good company. Um, what is, what are the most rewarding things about getting older? Retirement? I'm already looking forward to that one. Yeah, my daughter is too. No, I think, I think that there's, there's AAA peace of mind that comes, that

00:31:21.469 - 00:31:46.140

you have this, this history of, of facing challenges and difficulties and you've done? Ok. And you just kind of figure, well, then just keep on doing ok. Yeah, it's like probably after your first half marathon. Yeah. Well, I can do that. I can not personally. Thanks.

00:31:49.489 - 00:32:07.880

Oh, yeah. Um, what was your favorite age growing up? And would you want to go back to being that age? Um, I think it probably, well, I wouldn't want to go back, um, because then I have to go back to work. Oh, yeah. No, it's true.

00:32:09.339 - 00:32:33.250

But thirties, forties, I was spry and I was strong. I was proactive, um, I was on the fire department when I was in my thirties. You could learn things and not forget them 20 seconds later. That was really nice. But, uh, I wouldn't trade it for

00:32:33.260 - 00:33:01.369

now. Yeah. Well, that's good. Yeah. What are your favorite aspects in your life. My favorite aspects. One of them is, um, I, I'm comfortable, I'm comfortable with myself. I'm comfortable with my environment. I love my garden. So many flowers. I love so many. My daughter, um,

00:33:01.869 - 00:33:23.354

was able to build a little ad u on my property and my daughter lives with me. Yeah, that's really cool. And, uh, I love my cat. That's amazing. But, yeah, I think being comfortable financially and emotionally and mentally, it's a nice relief. It is. It is.

00:33:23.364 - 00:33:53.410

There's been some tough times, so. Yeah. Ok. Um, is there a person you regret coming out to, you know, they don't like you. There's a lot of cliffs they can find. I like that. That's a great way to think. So. Why I'm pausing? How do you

00:33:53.420 - 00:34:15.919

feel how the times have changed from when you came out and how you were treated and discriminated against versus how things are now with that? Oh, well, I'm delighted first. I mean, this, this is wonderful. Um, there's a, there's a lot more to do. Um, yeah.

00:34:15.929 - 00:34:42.049

II, I think, I think still women have an advantage over, um, gay men. I think trans people. I have a very difficult road. Um, yeah. Yeah. Um, but, but there's a lot of progress and let's hope there will be a lot more. I sure hope so.

00:34:42.329 - 00:35:03.760

Yeah. And you young people now don't seem to seem to feel a need to hide or protect themselves. I don't know what it's like for them in, in the job sector. Um, I just don't have any, any insight into that. I think it kind of depends

00:35:03.770 - 00:35:18.699

on the job too, I think because, like, there's definitely more, especially, like, male dominated, like, straight male dominated jobs. I feel like there's a lot more, like, I don't know, just issues in general but I don't know if I'm not. Yeah. Yeah. What are, what would

00:35:18.709 - 00:35:35.060

be the straight now dominated areas now? I honestly couldn't tell you. Well, I mean, I just feel like, I mean, I honestly see it a lot because at my work I would just work at a restaurant. But there's like, I mean, of the staff, my age

00:35:35.070 - 00:35:48.300

and staff that do the same job as me, there's only like two girls, the rest are men. So I just feel like, I mean, in subtle ways I feel like it is a little bit everywhere, you know, and there's probably things that they expect you to

00:35:48.310 - 00:36:06.939

do because, because you're female, definitely, I've definitely, I mean, there's been a lot of times where I have experienced sexism. My work just because there's a lot of people, well, men specifically who just don't necessarily respect women. So I've definitely experienced that even just working in

00:36:06.949 - 00:36:18.969

a restaurant. I also think that expectations in the job as a woman are different. Like, I remember when I used to work at a restaurant, it was kind of like, I was always thinking, like, if someone were to say something inappropriate to me or ask for

00:36:18.979 - 00:36:30.620

my number and I don't want to give it to them stuff. There's like an expectation for you to be nice and, like, not, like, not really necessarily, like, no, I don't want to do that and things like that to do it nicely rather than. Exactly. Yeah.

00:36:30.760 - 00:36:47.469

Right. Which is not. Right. Right. Especially depending on what they say. And do you ever feel like sad because of how the times have changed now? And you had to grow up living and, and feeling discrimination that's less prominent now. No. Really? No. Really? Yeah. No,

00:36:47.479 - 00:37:12.850

I, I'm, I'm happy for young people to carry the banner and Yeah, totally. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. OK. Um uh I don't really know about this one of which, what do you think about when people have com like, oh, this is a trend or phase? OK.

00:37:13.739 - 00:37:29.000

We have a p but oh yeah, we do. You clever. OK. This is going to be our last question. What do you think when people make comments like, oh, this is just a trend or a phase when referring to an increasing focus among young people on

00:37:29.010 - 00:37:48.580

being more open about their sexuality. They don't know top from bottom. That's a good, I didn't mean that to me, I was trying to clean up my language. We did a great job. You did a great job. Do you have anything else you'd like to add?

00:37:49.459 - 00:38:02.520

I'm just very proud of you too. Thank you. We're very proud of you. You come very far and you're a very inspiring person and we're really, that's incredible. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you.