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Hi, I'm Alyssa. I am 15 years old and I am recording from Sebastopol, California. Uh, hello, I'm Lauren. I'm 17 years old and I'm here with Alyssa in Sebastopol. Hello. I'm Roman Gray. I'm 18 years old and I'm as well here in California. I'm Wayne Scala.

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80 years old and I'm recording here in Bastable California at the community center part of the library. Ok. So, um, let's see. My first question is maybe you could talk a little bit about your gift shop. Um, let me just put this down like that. And,

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um, like, so it's kind of like a safe place to discuss issues and problems that the community is facing. Right. Yes. And so what were some of these, like, problems that were, um, like coming from the federal, like, county and federal? Ok. Let me just back

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up a little, uh, with my bio. I wound up in California. I was in the corporate world for, oh, until I was 48 years old and, um, I was very active in the gay community but behind the scenes and low ball because of the discrimination and

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all that sort of thing. It was dangerous to be out. Um, I, when all of my friends were dying of A I DS. Um, um, I fortunately was healthy. I found out later on that I'm immune to the virus. Uh, a family member. It's ok. Ok.

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Um, this is a little difficult. Take your time. It's ok. Anything goes, we can move on if you like, I lost all of my friends. I'm the only spider of several groups. Um, So I decided I was gonna leave the corporate world and uh roll up

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my sleeves and do my volunteering full time and work full time. Uh I opened up a small shop in gal uh gay friendly area. Uh It's where a lot of people wound up from uh San Francisco Bay area and they came up to gurn to die

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quite frankly, it was a death sentence. Um Oh, there were limited resources. He, I'm sorry, it's ok. I'm sorry. This is difficult. It's, it's totally understandable. So I had my little shop, I got involved with several people that I knew. Um people were having problems getting

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uh they lost their jobs. Uh Families threw them out, um volunteering at hospices. Uh Before I even came up to Gonville, it was tragic. Um Mothers, I was healthy, I was basically just cleaning up and being with people and trying to do as best I could

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learn a lot of different medical techniques. Uh People didn't know where to turn. Uh lovers broke up, one was positive and was negative. They fled each other. So there was a, a group of us supporting each other. Um, besides the gay men, I have to, my

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hats off to the women, especially the lesbian, but certainly straight women. They really were in. Remarkable, absolutely remarkable. Uh, people wouldn't touch us, go near us. Um, in some areas they wouldn't even deliver mail to a house because something was, that happened in Dallas that happened

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to a friend of mine there. People didn't know where to turn it. Kaiser Permanente did an outstanding job. This is starting when I got involved with them up here. Uh, they had started a new program, uh, with support systems, et cetera, et cetera, medical as well

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as drugs and, and the hospice. Uh God almighty hospice so well. Mhm. As you can see, I suffered from PTSD. Definitely. Hm. But I need to talk about it. Uh, I need to let other people know, uh, someone would have trouble getting social security, getting disability.

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It was amazing. Um, the people within the system that step up and, uh, the funeral directors wouldn't even touch your body would refuse to handle the person. Um, so we gathered and, um, we try to help each other, uh, with social security, whether it's, uh, food,

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um, family ties, communications. Um, I was involved with my partner who was til told him to get in touch back with his mother. His mother said he brought disgrace on the family. She did come up with a family to see him. Raffled through all of his

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papers, took whatever was valuable, dropped him off at my shop one day and said he needs to get cleaned up. He had messed himself. He was so sick. He was a bag of about his own freaking mother wouldn't even touch him. She was out there for

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the money. Uh, the brothers stepped in, they did help with that situation. Uh Other friends, a lot of us cared for each other at home. My partner died with me at home. I had another friend um came to the shop. That's how we got to know

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him. They have the rainbow flag out there and you know, it was a friendly place. It was a bathroom in there to be used and they wouldn't even let people use the bathroom. Uh Greenville is a little different with that. Um So was that Grenville like,

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like when at this time, like Greenville is like very discriminatory towards the gay community? It was then it isn't now, that's what I feel like. Yeah. No, it's changed completely. Uh the uh chamber of Commerce. Uh was it was as straight as you can get. So

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we started the gay and lesbian Business Association, which is basically four shops in town at that time. And um then we started doing that and then we got involved with the chamber chamber. Woke up, we got same thing with the Sheriff's Department somewhat. We had some

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homophobic people, we had some sympathetic people. It's like in life there's the good and the bad and all that sort of thing. Uh, but basically we, we rallied to help each other. Uh Social security was a big thing and trying to get disability, uh, that sort

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of thing. You know, the communication with the families. That was the most tragic, uh, that you could imagine how parents can uh just reject their Children. So I, and, and go ahead with another question. I feel better now I just a little there. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.

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Um I don't know, do you have a question? Um Can you like talk a little bit about the people that you worked with? Like if there was someone that you knew that just did something really outstanding or like positively in your, yeah, someone that like positively

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affected, you know, your life and like helped you, you know, do all the great things that you were able to do like with the hospice and stuff. I think probably my mother, um she um she was second generation, first generation Italian American New York City. Um

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She married into my father's family which is wa a wasp family. Um We can direct descendants from two families came over on the Mayflower. What's, what's a wasp family? A white Anglo Saxon Protestant. Yeah. Um So my mother being a minority Italian American woman married into

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this family and she told me about discrimination what it was like and the big lesson when I was with her when I was a little kid, how would you feel if you said or did something else like that? I became very protective, not knowing I was

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gay growing up, I had a very effeminate friend that I protected. I'm a big guy. I was always the tallest in the class and all that sort of thing. And I just didn't like bullying from any way shape and girls were sometimes really vicious to each

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other. But, uh, you know, so II I basically learned that way through, through my family and all that sort of thing. Uh As far as my coming out, my mother's brother, Uncle, Uncle Joe, which kind of figured out he was gay. Uh, he would always come

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to family reunions with Uncle Al. So, but I came out to him in my, when I split with my wife and I lived in, in New York City at the time and he was also in Manhattan. Uh, and he used to go to lunch with him

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and I came out to him and figured he was gonna come out to me. Well, he was born in, I think 1919, there was a whole different generation. He served in World War Two and he was very straight looking and all that sort of thing. But

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I knew he was gay. He never came out to me. But he, all he said was don't tell the film, share this with the family. And so I didn't, I shared with my mother later on in life and she was accepting, you know, didn't, not absolutely

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thrilled about it and all that sort of thing. But, uh, yeah, coming out during those days was dangerous. I mean, you talk about, you can be arrested for anything. I mean, it was just, and I'll just go a little bit into my family when I, uh,

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was the reason I got married I was, uh, sexually active in, in high school fooling around with guys, you know, nothing major girls, you know, not, not full intercourse and all that sort of thing. But when I finally did my, uh, or this woman, she became

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pregnant and I thought, oh, my God, what do I do now? I mean, I was in college and one weekend my boyfriend would come up and then another weekend my girlfriend would come up and it was, I was busy hormones and all that sort of thing.

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Um, but anyway, so I'm married thinking, well, ok, the gay part was just a phase. What do I know? We just didn't have discussions and there was nothing on the news or I was aware of. You read different books and stuff like that. But it was

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very limited. Um, so I figured, well, it was just a phase. Well, my second son, I was just about graduating to get ready to graduate college. We wanted to have another child. We decided, ok, and he was the only one that was planned. And so after

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he was born, I realized this is not who I am. Um, I was married for seven years just before the marriage ended, I was a randy devil. I was at home with pneumonia and my wife at the time and I knew I didn't discuss it that

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I wanted to split and all that sort of thing. And so she was supposedly on, on the pill. And so she told me she was safe and she became pregnant with my daughter. So that's three Children. So at that point, I was having some really heavy

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duty psychological problems, depression, not, never a drink. I mean, so I'm not, I never got into, didn't even do marijuana until, until I was 30. Um, but, uh, so it was very depressing and all that sort of thing. Uh, so I split up, went into a

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very deep depression. I voluntarily hospitalized myself. I was suicidal. The guilt. Live near there. It was a nightmare. Um, my ex-wife was ok for the first five years. No, three years. I take that back three years. And then all of a sudden she said, no, you

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can't see the Children anymore. Wrote me a letter said the Children didn't want to see me anymore. And that, uh, it was, it was a kiss off. Letter, I went into a detail. It's been suicidal. Fortunately, my family was very supportive, especially my sister who's a

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psych nurse. Uh I was given an option back then. This was back in the, oh, late sixties. Uh I can go to either a uh either of two therapists, one would be accepted in my homosexuality. The other one would change me red flag back then. That

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was the accepted uh accepted rather. Uh I choose a very nice, uh, it's like I saved my life. Uh I did a thing called rational therapy is that worked for me and uh I was able to pull myself out of that, uh would continue for therapy.

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Um, got myself back into the corporate world because I had dropped out at that point. I was not doing something for about a year. I was so messed up, um, experiment with some drug that not nothing crazy. I didn't get addicted to anything. Thank goodness. Um

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And this is gonna be difficult. It's ok. I did my Children 25 years. My daughter in law, my oldest son's wife wanted me to see the child, my oldest grandson when he was born, my son said, ok, but he didn't want to see me. So I

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was able to see him when he was a year old. Um, ironically he turned out gay. He's 30 years old now. Um, my son finally decided he would see me. Let me back up a little I, before that happened, uh I got in touch with a

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friend. I went to college with a high school for a reunion reunion. We've known each other and we talked generally and to talk to each other. And I said, well, the Children and we have nothing to do with me. And he said, well, of course not,

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you never paid child support, you never want to see them. I was shocked. Let me tell you what I did to support those Children and work two jobs. I sold my plasma twice a week. I negative with some rare antibodies. I look like a junkie. They

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do one arm, spin it out and another arm. So at 30 bucks a pint did that. Um I did porn. I'm not proud of that, but I did anything to make a buck. Uh So to be told that was shocking. So I at that point never

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wanted to say anything bad about their mother. It's their mother. But I finally said, OK, this is it. I've got to write something. So I wrote a multi page letter to my three Children included court records because when I first left, she said, oh no, pay

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me cash, don't give me any money. Said I never paid anything through that. Then when I insisted I was gonna be paying through the court system, which I only represented myself, never got a lawyer and like that um I wound up apparently it was an audit

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or something like that because she went after me with the IRS. Every vicious thing you can imagine. Um, my job, she threatened, um, when I was in the corporate world, I was moving around from different states. But anyway, all the court records were there. I kept

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copies of everything and ironically for some reason or other, I got a return check from the court. This was Orange, Orange County California. And they sent me a check for $50 because I had overpaid my daughters. She's the youngest, her child support, like $50. I go.

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This is strange. So I made a photocopy of that check. So when I wrote this letter, I attached all of the court documents and all and I kept by the way track of all of my Children through the years of my mother and my sister, all

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their photographs from when they were babies, you know, well, at all the different events and all that. Well, when my son got the letter, my daughter-in-law told me what happened. He had a meeting with his sister and a brother and there was a lot of tears

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and anger and all that sort of thing. Unfortunately, my son, my oldest son did not talk to his mother and his grandparents for a year and that's not what I wanted it. Like more hate and anger and that sort of thing. Um So when he finally

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agreed to see me and that's so difficult. I held it together. We saw each other. It was very strained, but he slowly came around and all that sort of thing. And, uh, flash forward. He just left. He and his second wife were here for a week.

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I couldn't have asked for a better son. I'm more loving caring. It was a total miracle. My other two Children still will not see me. I'm close with my oldest son's two Children, my gay son, uh grandson, and then my uh my granddaughter Bridget. Uh so,

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you know, it was II I, the advice my mother gave me is through this whole thing. Never give up, never give up, always just hope and do your best and so forth and so on and seeing him after 25 years, it was, I could die happy.

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It was my only regret my entire life and my other two Children, they're doing well. I mean, my oldest son is a retired now police officer. My other son is a teacher. My daughter is a stay at home mom and I have 10 grandchildren from them.

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I don't see them but to keep track of them. So, um it's been a rough road but I'll tell you it's determination, determination, determination. Another little thing that happened to me. Uh When my partner Bob was dying at home, I had an apartment upstairs. I had

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the shop downstairs. It was a huge studio apartment with an outside deck and all that. And, um, uh, he passed in June of 95 and, um, of 94 I'm sorry, in January of 95 we had a flood in Gonville and flooded my entire shop, got everything

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upstairs and right to the rafters got all that up. I had, uh, cleaned it all up and March 1st, I opened again and March 7th, it flooded again and I said, no, I got it. It's gonna, something that, that's not gonna stop me. A friend of

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mine called me up and said, Wayne, come on into the city. You need a break. So on and so on. Which city San Francisco I was living in all the time. Went in there. We went into uh Harvey Milk's bar bar there, whatever. I think it

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is closed. Now sit down, order a drink for dinner and have a and they said, would everyone please leave the place is on fire? Oh my God. I, we got up, I walked out there and I just said I cut my fuck this. Nothing's nothing's gonna

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stop me. Bring it on. I mean, I really people are looking at me. I said, no, I said, I mean, so determination. That's what it is. Yeah. Um Sorry, I digress but no, no, it's great. Yeah. What sir do you want me to take a turn?

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No, it's ok. Actually, this is my arm right now. Going back to like the A I DS topic. How did you feel when Princess Diana made contact with a patient and she was the only member of the royal family to do so. Monumental. Absolutely monumental. When

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you have people like that standing up and speaking out it, anytime any celebrity, anybody came out and supported us, it was, it was unbelievable. The one thing I did and I have a regret, I did not get as involved and act up as I should have

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because I thought, oh, they're going too far. No, in your life your fucking life depends on it. And there's some idiot telling you you can't my friend when he was diagnosed and doctor just said to him, well, nothing we can do for you. You just put

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your, your life in order. He's alive today by the way. But those, those are the types of things. So when you had someone like Princess Dyer, any famous person, Ronald Reagan made rot in hell and they had, they had gay friends and he and Nancy and

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all that sort of thing and totally ignored us. Couldn't even say the word it was. Yeah, that was. Yeah. Um Yeah. So yeah, definitely. When, when known pe people stood up and smoke out and also local people, there was, we had a, a straight woman in

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town that uh uh she was involved with the Chamber of Commerce. And when we did the gay and lesbian Business Association, she joined us, she was a member of the chamber, but she also joined the gay les tell everybody else around. No. Uh, during that same

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time we, uh, when a group of us did GG as a heat free community and that was holding seminars with different businesses and education. What was that? Oh, God, that had to be in the early nineties. I moved to G, in 91. So I'm terrible with

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dates, early nineties. Yeah. Yeah. And then we had some sheriffs who were very, uh, helpful with that as well. And there again it was the individuals. Yeah. Um, yeah, Lynn Woolsey was another good advocate for his former congresswoman. Still lives in this area. Yeah. Wolsey sounds,

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I think I went to school with some kids or something. Yeah. Lynn Wolsey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she's, yeah. So, so you grew up in New York? So, coming to Gonville. That sounds like where, how do you find when I decided I wanted to leave the corporate

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world? I, I looked all over the United States. I most important was a gay, friendly and, uh, where I feel safe and I could do some positive things and all that sort of thing. And I was living in Dallas at the time because I've lived in

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New York. I'd lived in Atlanta. I've lived in Hollywood. Uh, Dallas. Um, where else? Uh, Phoenix. Yeah. Um, where was I going with this? Um, oh, how did I find g, yeah. Uh, the climate, the, actually it was the gay community that was really it. And

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then just uh um yeah, it took me two years to plan my escape. And it was one of those things that you have to visualize. And I said, well, what do I actually want? And I visual and I might, I would like a small shop in

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a small town and I'd love to be able to live in back or above. There was only one place available in Kernville like that. And I talked to the guy said, well, I'm never gonna leave and I happened to be in Gurn because I came back

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and forth, flew in and out quite a bit. And, uh, well, just prior to that, I, when I came to Gurn to check it out for the first time, let me back up. Uh, I was gonna then fly down to where was I living at that

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time? I was living in Dallas and I was gonna fly down to L A to see another memorial, another memorial, another memorial, you know, how many times memorials? And so I spent, I did the checklist. There are pros and cons, what do I do this? And

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I do that. I literally wrote it out and all that sort of thing and everything fell in that area wound up there. You know, it's such a nice place. It is and it was, you know, I jokingly referred to it as, you know, you know what

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a gurney is a hospital. Gurney. Well, it's Gurn, you know, I referred to it as gurney. You know, we walk in there and we carried out in the gurney. Yeah. So, but no, it's a, it's a great community. We, you know, um, let's see, maybe you

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could talk about, I mean, it might be, I don't know. Like, what were you doing in corporate, in corporate work? Like, what was I? Well, in college, I majored in education and realized that education doesn't pay very well. I couldn't do that. And I'm dyslexic and

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I'm a quick study. Uh, so I don't learn, like most people doing all that sort of thing. I like to write and all that sort of thing. And one of my, I started putting resumes out and I got a job as a reporter for the Concord

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New Hampshire newspaper because I went to school up there. Um, didn't take that. I wound up taking a, um, a, uh, it was a management trainee, uh, entry level into WT grant. It was a chain of five and dime stores or, you know, like, like a

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Kmart type thing and excelled in that. Um, just, it was the money, you know, I get bonuses and stuff like that. I did it for money and all that. So then I went on, uh, became a, went to, uh, transferred in, back to Long Island, uh,

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became a, uh, um, buyer for women's fashions, knew nothing about writing, knew nothing about women's fashions. Like I said, I'm a quick study. I know I could figure things out real fast. And so wound up buying women's accessories for uh a chain of uh 13 stores.

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Then, then from there, I um went into the antique antique business for a short period of time for a couple of years and that was a little too quiet for me. Went back into corporate and became uh worked for Lord and Taylor uh department stores, became

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a director of operations there, worked for them for, I guess about a total of seven years. And then I'm terrible with years and all that sort of thing. And then decided I'm bored with that. Uh I wanna do something else. So I came out to the

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west coast and figured I had enough money to kind of float for six months. I only lasted three months. I got bored. And so I answered a blind ad and wound up working for the Southland Corporation, which was a 7-Eleven and their auto parts division. I

00:26:05.510 - 00:26:18.989

know nothing about auto parts. They said no, that's good. We need something with their big site. So uh so I worked for them for 10 years. I started with them uh and wound up doing all of their store designs, layouts and, but I worked up through

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the ranks. So I joined them, there was 80 stores when I left, we had 513 stores and I did all the designs and layouts for all of those sort of things. And then that's when I decided. No, this is, I was working, working, working and, um,

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you know, doing my volunteer work on evenings and, and, uh, you know, uh, weekends and stuff like that. That's how I came to. Gal. Do you regret ever doing the corporate business or do you think it was a good experience? I think it was an excellent

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experience. Uh You have to remember. I'm, I have a high IQ but I um did not do very well in school. Uh I got through, I went to uh I, you know, I, I passed and then when I got to college, I excelled in whatever subject

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I liked. And all that algebra was one of, I love that. I just absolutely love it. It was so analytical and all that. Uh No, no, it was a great experience. Um It was interesting being in the closet in the corporate world and the fashion world.

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It was when I first went to Lord and Taylor, I didn't know anybody there. I was in a high pressure position and I was kind of like, you know, being kind of tested and all that. Ironically, I walked into a gay bar near where I worked

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and half of the executive staff was there. I was like, OK, you know, it's all right. So I can relax there. Uh No corporate world was fun but not for me. I did it for how many years? It's, it's the old Joseph Campbell thing. Follow your

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bliss. Um What's like a challenge that you faced as a gay person that you like overcame and are most proud of? Oh, that's a very good question. Wow. The can anger, anger at the straight community and how we were treated. Um, yeah, I had, I had

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to come to terms with that. I had to come to do that. Uh I'll tell you a little something. I didn't know whether I was gonna bring this up or not. But, uh, when I was uh 1112 years old, I feel rra of fear and I

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was bedridden. Um, this is pure pre pubescent and I was molested by my family doctor for over a year and, um, would not, I swore I would never cry again. I didn't cry till I was 16. Uh, had a breakdown at that point. Uh coming to

00:28:41.739 - 00:29:05.319

terms with, it was just, it was a horrible, horrible, horrible experience, uh became very anti religious because of that incident. Um, never told anything to anybody and talking about PTSD. Um I put that so far in my back in my mind when I was going through

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the same separation with my Children and all that and that therapy, it came back in a flash and it was surreal, the nightmares. Um Yeah, it was, it was rough but it was thank goodness for therapy. I'll tell you, you know, it really, there's one doctor

00:29:25.069 - 00:29:37.849

who was actually an ex Jesuit priest, uh, psychiatrist that I went to. It's a friend of my sister's, as a matter of fact, uh, he was really instrumental, instrumental in that. So, yeah, I think the anger, uh, with a lot of people in situations, uh, you

00:29:37.859 - 00:29:52.219

know, I can't forgive that doctor. Uh, that's something that I have to accept, you know, that, you know, the whole thing with the, um, a, a that, uh, change what you can change except what you can't and know the difference. Well, I'm still working on knowing

00:29:52.229 - 00:30:12.000

the difference because I'm one of those people that, you know, make difference and, you know, changes and all that. So, yeah. Yeah. Uh, no, I mean, I have a fun one. What's your, what's your favorite, uh, album as far as music goes? Oh, I love classical

00:30:12.010 - 00:30:31.250

piano, uh, Chopin. Uh, I recently discovered, uh, Villa Lopez maybe 15 years ago. The Brazilian mid century classical jazz. Just inc, I love music and that's, that's my go to place. I'm sitting with my, I have a hearing aid but I just tone in there and

00:30:31.260 - 00:30:52.219

I'll just go off into my own world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you said, like, you use music, kind of like as a coping mechanism? Is there anything else like journaling, poetry, writing? Oh, I love gardening and I love hiking. Um, and leisurely. I do Jenner down

00:30:52.229 - 00:31:08.699

the coast. Over there and take pictures and, and, uh, you know. Yeah, that's, that's my go to, yeah, writing. I'm a very good writer. Um, and it's easy for me to express myself, I think. Um, and, uh, it's one of my regrets. I did do more

00:31:08.709 - 00:31:24.300

writing. Um, I was encouraged in college, uh, to do that. Yeah, it was, uh, I went to an experimental college. It was, uh, a group of, uh, this was back in the sixties. You have to remember it was a group of mit professors that were left

00:31:24.310 - 00:31:40.229

of anti war. And Doctor Sterling Tracy was the president of the college. He worked on the Manhattan project. And then my uh it was a very experimental college. I was, I didn't realize how lucky I was. My uncle Joe, the gay one paid, paid for my,

00:31:40.510 - 00:32:00.609

my first year in college. Um It was 100 students and you had um a classroom of 10. It was like the Greek symposium. I mean, we'd sit outdoors sometimes under a tree. It was just magical, took up fencing. I was on the crew team. It was

00:32:00.619 - 00:32:14.589

very, you know, um one of them, I uh my parents, when I, when my breakdown all of a sudden they started paying attention to me and uh and feeling guilty about a lot of different things. I have an older sister who is gifted and she shelled

00:32:14.599 - 00:32:27.619

in everything and all that. So I didn't, I wasn't jealous of her, she got all the attention. I didn't want the attention, you know. But, uh, we're very, very close, uh, to this day. She's two years older than I am. But, uh, yeah. Have you ever

00:32:27.630 - 00:32:45.040

thought of writing a book? Yes. Yes. Yes. I would only, I would, I, the way I would do it. Yeah, I would do it. I would do it to my grandchildren. The ones I don't know, the ones I have photos of the ones that I, you

00:32:45.050 - 00:33:00.359

know, one of them just becoming a fireman down in Virginia. Uh, uh, seven of them were teachers. Um, and, uh, yeah, to, to not, and I, I would do it to explain my life that I'm doing to you the ups and downs the positives and the

00:33:00.369 - 00:33:12.579

negatives and, and getting through things I would do it for that. Not whenever I try to do it. I think it sounds like, oh, just a little too. Me, me, me, I don't want it to be, me, me, me, I'd like to just almost do an

00:33:12.589 - 00:33:31.189

interview of myself but, and, and with all the, the crap in there as well, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not perfect, you know, I've certainly, I'm, yeah, I don't think I've done anything illegal other than smoke, man. No. And that, now it's legal. So,

00:33:33.069 - 00:33:51.079

yeah. So, yeah, writing is, is nice. I mean, fortunately when I'm in good health, uh, my, uh, I've got long genes. I'm very, very diverse. I have, my DNA done was totally flabbergasted with that. I have Asian ancestry. I have North African ancestry. Uh, middle eastern,

00:33:51.089 - 00:34:06.000

uh, my Italian mother who, um, I always thought this Italian family was unlike any other Italian family. They were much more conservative and they're very distrustful of the Catholic church, which was interesting for an Italian my mother would say, don't pay attention to everything they talk

00:34:06.010 - 00:34:22.448

about and all that. She didn't. My mother passed at 95 when I had my DNA done sure enough, we're Italian, but she's also a sephardic Jew. So that's where the, you know, 1492 some of them went to the Naples area all over and all that sort

00:34:22.458 - 00:34:40.919

of thing. Uh So, yeah, um, they have Egyptian and Greek ancestry and it's just amazing. Absolutely amazing. So, I've always wanted to do one of those. Do 23 and me and you'll do your, your, your health as well. And it's, you can, uh uh I had

00:34:40.929 - 00:34:55.745

recently, I was one of the first people to have my DNA done uh way back when it was first when you could actually talk to the different scientists. And that's how I found out about my uh uh CCR five deletion for the HIV out that way.

00:34:55.754 - 00:35:08.284

But 23 and me, and you'll tell it, tell you about breast cancer gene, uh Alzheimer's and a lot of other things uh as well. As your, and you can choose just if you want ancestry, you just want medical. But I would suggest you do the medical

00:35:08.294 - 00:35:22.060

because one of the things that they're discovering is that pharmaceuticals that you, you know, back before they knew blood types, they would do a blood transfusion. And if it didn't kill you, well, it was good blood type. It was a match. They're doing the same thing

00:35:22.070 - 00:35:36.639

with pharmaceuticals. Now they're giving you like they gave, put me on statins for cholesterol. I don't have a cholesterol problem, but there's a problem. Had a horrible reaction to that. Sure enough in my DNA. Yeah. It, it's not a match. So that is the future of

00:35:36.649 - 00:35:52.554

medicine to, to, you know, to deal with individual and one shot doesn't fit all same thing with HIV, drugs, certain drugs will not work on some HIV patients. They didn't know that back then. My partner went through hell with, uh, that was, that died with me.

00:35:52.564 - 00:36:09.060

Bob Gray. Uh, the horrible, horrible, uh, reactions and, and, and that sort of thing. So, yeah, do, do your 23 and me and, uh, you know, follow up on it. What was his last name spelled with a, with an, a gray? Oh my God. He was

00:36:09.070 - 00:36:28.810

adopted, he was, uh, uh, from, uh, Oregon. One of the, the, the pointed things when, when someone is dying, lots of times the mind will start going in wandering. He had a wonderful wonderful conversation with his father that wasn't there. I was in the room and

00:36:28.820 - 00:36:45.280

you know, it's like, ok, let's let this go, you know, and he was talking to him and I just watching, you know, when people are dying, so, so many died so bravely, so few of them thought there was one friend. You know, he's pleading, please, please.

00:36:45.290 - 00:36:59.280

I don't wanna die. What can you say? What can you? I had a now we have my age, another friend just passed from esophageal uh stomach cancer. I was with him the last few days of his life. And you know, and once again, he said, am

00:36:59.290 - 00:37:13.979

I really? And you have to be honest with him. I said, yes, Jerry, you are and we all are slow and it just a little further down the road and you know, and he di peace and all that. Um So yeah, yeah. So it seems like

00:37:13.989 - 00:37:39.020

you had like lived a really full life full of experiences. What would you like? Like a piece of advice that you would give to LGBT youth growing up now? Oh, be true to yourself. Um Don't let anybody put you down and remember who does it to

00:37:39.030 - 00:37:54.969

you and who's doing it to you? You can educate them, you can change them. Some people do change. Some people that are homophobic have come. I have seen that in several people. Uh My friend's father pretty much disowned him. Well, he came around big time 20

00:37:54.979 - 00:38:11.340

years after the fact. Uh, but, uh, yeah, someone, you sort of a preacher man from the south, totally changed. Totally change. Yeah. No, I never give up. Never give up and help each other. Help each other because that's what really makes all of us stronger when

00:38:11.350 - 00:38:27.800

we help each other. It's the, the, me, me, me people that they're, unfortunately the people that died, not too happy. The ones that were open that were loving and giving and caring and compassionate and also know when to say no to a friend. You've got, there's

00:38:27.810 - 00:38:40.760

a lot of negativity out there people. Oh, you're never gonna do this. You're never gonna do that. Stay away from them. Just the, the, the naysayers, uh, we've all had them, people told me you're never gonna do this. You're never gonna do that. Well, excuse me.

00:38:40.899 - 00:38:56.939

You know? You know, you can't, as I said, I never thought I would get so far in life because of my, uh, dyslexia. I mean, it's, it's pro, you know, the reason, my theory about dyslexia, why we're usually a little brighter because if you're dyslexic and

00:38:56.949 - 00:39:08.989

you're not too bright, you're gonna die because you're gonna go in the wrong direction of traffic, you know, because you've got to be able to figure out things real fast. So only the smart ones are too bad, you know, and to keep a sense of humor.

00:39:10.760 - 00:39:28.429

Oh, ok. Maybe you could, uh, tell us how you met Bill. Huh? I was in a relationship after my partner died. I was single for a few years. And then I met somebody that turned out to be a sociopath who could not really, could not tell

00:39:28.439 - 00:39:41.985

the lie, to tell the truth. You would, you would confront him and he was just like Donald Trump. Just unbelievable, unbelievable. Got out of that relationship. We, we parted friendly. We had bought a house together and the best deal was we made a lot of money

00:39:41.995 - 00:39:59.090

on the sale. So that was fine. So at any rate, bill um moved, he was uh uh assistant to attend of schools in uh uh in in this area. Uh he moved into the area. I was when I was breaking up with this friend of mine,

00:39:59.100 - 00:40:09.189

I moved out of the house while it was being sold and he, they agreed that he would stay there. I was renting from a friend down in Monte. So this friend said, oh, I have a new tenant, you've got to meet him so on and so

00:40:09.199 - 00:40:26.189

on. No. So and he's telling him the same thing, small town, small world. He had moved in in Jan uh in June of that prior year in January of the next year. We are in the local gay bar in GN. It was in January early afternoon

00:40:26.199 - 00:40:38.229

and early part of the evening and he's at one and the nine there's maybe three people in the bar and I kinda, he walks over and chats with me and all that sort of thing and make a long story short. Where do you live at? And

00:40:38.239 - 00:40:54.239

then, oh, you're the one so we had met on our own. Unfortunately, I, the chemistry was nice. We dated a, a few times and then he had told me right up front he was HIV. Positive. And I think, oh, shit, how can I'm not gonna let

00:40:54.250 - 00:41:10.209

this go. I cannot handle this again. I can't lose another person. It's one of the reasons I was pretty much on my own and, um, it worked out so 19 years later with and he's been positive for over 30 years and he was one of the

00:41:10.219 - 00:41:34.989

people that was told go, you're gonna die, you know, nothing we can do for you. And when his partner died, the Undertaker wouldn't even touch him. Oh, ok. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's how we met. Um, and it's worked out wonderfully. Yeah. Uh, yeah, we could wrap

00:41:35.050 - 00:41:40.649

up now and just keep, like, con conversing. We could wrap up now and just keep conversing.