00:00:02.000 - 00:00:19.000

Jeremy Hays: We're on, OK. Jeremy Hays: Laverne, let me start at the very beginning. Where did were you from? Sonoma County, where did you grow? Vern Smith: Up I grew up in Mississippi. Vern Smith: And live there until I finish high school.

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Vern Smith: In 1951, I joined the Navy, spent four years. Vern Smith: In the Navy. Vern Smith: After that I went to San Francisco state, got my degree on in 1954, we were married and. Vern Smith: I decided to go to college full time and.

00:00:44.000 - 00:01:23.000

Vern Smith: The Val decided to work, so we didn't lead having a family till I got through a school, went to work for the Del Monte Corporation 195558 at Baker Park 1958 I went. Vern Smith: And I was with the Del Monte Corporation for. Vern Smith: Think about 29 years I retired in 1988. Vern Smith: That the company was acquired by RJR Nabisco some years earlier, then by Nabisco, and we had a buy out where I was able to take a.

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Vern Smith: Financial incentive and retired 55. Jeremy Hays: Right. Jeremy Hays: So how did you end up before we continue? Jeremy Hays: To change the wire.

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Jeremy Hays: People don't often don't spend that long a time with companies anymore. It used to be. It used to be more common, yeah. Vern Smith: No, not anymore. All right. Yeah, because they had full benefits, full retirements. And I mean, my retirement's safe for the rest of my life. So. Jeremy Hays: Sure. Yeah. Jeremy Hays: Yeah, yeah, that's great. So.

00:02:06.000 - 00:02:49.000

Jeremy Hays: How did you end up? How did you get through? How did you find out about Rohnert Park? How did you? Vern Smith: Get to Rohnert Park. We had three children and living in San Francisco, and the two children, they get pardon two children living in San Francisco and apartments. And at that time, it's very difficult. Vern Smith: To find a good place if you had children. So we had some friends, had moved up to Rohnert Park, we came to visit with them and liked what we saw. The school was nearby. Vern Smith: We looked at Marin County, couldn't afford Marin County, and we could afford Rohnert Park. So we moved to Rohnert Park in 1960.

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Jeremy Hays: What you said you moved to you. You came up and you visited a friend you liked what you saw. What did you see? Jeremy Hays: That you liked. Vern Smith: New development the homes were something we could afford. It was still sort of rural area. The disadvantage was a commuting to San Francisco. Vern Smith: That was a problem originally took the Greyhound bus at first.

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Vern Smith: Back and forth. Vern Smith: And then eventually found other people in the carpool. And in later years, Golden Gate Transit came along and spent my latter years riding Golden Gate Transit. Jeremy Hays: Could you describe what the area looked like at the time you said it was kind of? Vern Smith: At the area it looked like at that time the A section was in the process of being complete.

00:03:39.000 - 00:04:16.000

Vern Smith: There was no B section under development. Vern Smith: Our street on Arlin Drive ended up. Vern Smith: Toward one of the creeks, there was a field out open fields, the Jack rabbits and people and motorcycles chasing down the Jack rabbits and unfortunately and sometimes not treating them very well. So it was all open country all around, no trees. Jeremy Hays: Just bare field. I remember Morris saying, reading that he had said something about we bought a property with one tree on it or no trees on.

00:04:17.000 - 00:04:28.000

Jeremy Hays: It or something? Vern Smith: Like that? I don't know where you found that tree. Jeremy Hays: Well, we had a train. Jeremy Hays: We planted a tree, though you did? Yeah. And and there was island.

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Vern Smith: Drive that was on Ireland drive, yeah. Jeremy Hays: So there wasn't much in Rohnert Park at the time. Vern Smith: No, there wasn't. There was a store in Cotati grocery store. Uh, later there was a store on Southwest Blvd. By name it. I named it Sisa, opened the store and not too long after that, Safeway came along. Vern Smith: And then we had exchange bank and then it sort of grew.

00:04:58.000 - 00:05:42.000

Vern Smith: From there. Jeremy Hays: Who were your neighbors on on airline. What were they? What kind of folks were they? Were they servicemen, were they? Vern Smith: Well, one of our neighbors who we had visited to look in Rohnert Park lived across the street from the house. We eventually bought Bill O'Neill, who became the city's first treasurer. Unfortunately, he passed away couple years ago, but he was the first city treasurer. Vern Smith: Then next door we had another family who he worked for the telephone company in San Francisco and then next to him was a a family who the husband was a Fire Chief at the Hamilton Air Force Base.

00:05:43.000 - 00:06:11.000

Vern Smith: And also on the same St. was Bob Ryan, who became Rohnert Park's first. Vern Smith: Sorry, chief Volunteer Fire Department. Jeremy Hays: So and one thing, Vernon, if you could, when I stop asking the question, just give me just wait just a second before answering the question. So we don't overlap them. What kind of what kind of folks lived in Rohner Park at the time where they, you know servicemen were you know working class blue collar what? Vern Smith: OK.

00:06:12.000 - 00:06:27.000

Vern Smith: It was both. Vern Smith: Blue collar and professional, who lived in Rohnert Park when we moved here. Jeremy Hays: And how did you when you moved into a section? Jeremy Hays: It was built out, you said.

00:06:28.000 - 00:07:14.000

Vern Smith: It wasn't a a section. When we moved here was in the process of being built out. It was this House that we moved into had just been finished and the streets behind us were still being built. So a section had a ways to go. When we moved here. Jeremy Hays: And how did you get to know your neighbors? Vern Smith: We got to know our neighbors primarily because everybody was new. It wasn't didn't take long for a social circles to to develop potlucks, St. get get together. Everybody's very sociable. Everybody knew. Vern Smith: Everybody moved to an area that they could afford.

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Vern Smith: And that's about all they could afford. They worked in different places. Jeremy Hays: So what one of the things that you know, usually you move somewhere and there's been some place there for a long time and you're moving into something that's existed for a long time. You moved somewhere where you and Val, where you were the. Jeremy Hays: You were some of the first people. Jeremy Hays: In the city.

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Jeremy Hays: What was that like? Vern Smith: It was an experience to be among the first to move to Rohnert Park. It was very difficult for Val because I'm going all day and she's raising three children. Some of the children have health, health issues and we had one doctor. Vern Smith: Katada Doctor John Roberts. And that was about it in the area, so it was. Vern Smith: We enjoyed watching people develop children come along, being born. Some of the families were like ours or all young families and all had children or children later.

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Vern Smith: We saw some that with their husbands got cancer and passed away. You know, we saw all sorts of things when you in a new community where you're close, you know, close knit. Jeremy Hays: Did you like the the the feeling of being part of something new? Oh, yeah. Vern Smith: Living. We enjoyed the camaraderie of the people in in the community. Vern Smith: Living in San Francisco, you're really isolated, particularly if you have small children.

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Vern Smith: And the way the city is laid out and you, you just don't know neighbors. So this is a brand new experience. Even though we had fences behind our houses, we could talk over fences, you know, and those things didn't exist in San Francisco. Jeremy Hays: What was the? I mean, some of the folks that? Jeremy Hays: I've talked to have said that Rohnert Park had a a reputation at that time. Jeremy Hays: There's sometimes people call it land of the midnight movers. I heard. Tell me about that.

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Vern Smith: Well, there, there were some properties that were developed later on which were sort of in the not that sort of South of where we lived in the in the neighborhood and that was part of the. Vern Smith: Part of the A section. And they were what called the Eichler homes at those times and the Eichler homes had a lot of glass. Vern Smith: Wolves and so the developer sold them at a very, very low down payment. You know, maybe 2 or $300. Vern Smith: But gun very high mortgages.

00:10:09.000 - 00:10:33.000

Vern Smith: And a lot of people, when they first realized, you know, they really stuck. And then when the first tax bill comes. Vern Smith: They can't pay it. Vern Smith: Then what do I do? Vern Smith: So some of those people just looked at their financial situations and said I've I'm in over my head, so I'm just getting out of here. For us, moving at midnight, you know, that was just a.

00:10:34.000 - 00:10:59.000

Vern Smith: Figure of speech. They just eventually left. Jeremy Hays: Kind of like delayed sticker shock, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Vern Smith: It was just people took build, bought homes. The Eichler type homes because they were practically give them to them initially and you signed the papers and you see the mortgage payments and you know I can't do anymore. Jeremy Hays: Yeah, yeah.

00:11:00.000 - 00:11:13.000

Jeremy Hays: So you're there, moved in. I started getting to know your neighbors, what started to make it feel like home, like, at what point did drone power feel? Vern Smith: Like feel like home. When I first moved in. Vern Smith: Rohnert Park felt like home. Jeremy Hays: Just it was that comfortable, huh?

00:11:14.000 - 00:11:42.000

Vern Smith: Because we it, Vernon Park, felt like home right away because his we owned it. Vern Smith: It was our property. We had a lot of room. We have 4 bedrooms playing room for three children, which we didn't have in San Francisco. We had a yard for them to play in and the weather was nice. Vern Smith: And the air was nice. Jeremy Hays: Did you in the beginning? So that was 60 you said have to be in?

00:11:43.000 - 00:12:14.000

Jeremy Hays: Where did you do your shopping? Vern Smith: There was market in Cotati small market and then the guy named Asisa opened a market on Southwest Blvd. In Rohnert Park. And some years after that, and I don't remember exactly when Safeway. Vern Smith: Came in, but initially we shopped in petal. Jeremy Hays: So after you move there, it was two years before the city wasn't incorporated yet.

00:12:15.000 - 00:12:42.000

Vern Smith: City was not incorporated when we moved here. Jeremy Hays: So in 62 it did become incorporated. Why did you? Did you vote for the incorporation? Vern Smith: Yes, I I voted for the incorporation of the city. Why I was involved in an incorporation of the city. We felt that we wanted our own city identity. We were being law enforcement. Basically. Was the County animal control was basically the. Jeremy Hays: OK.

00:12:43.000 - 00:13:27.000

Vern Smith: Money. We wanted to make our own planning decisions, which were still being controlled by the county. When you're not a city and there was talk of Cotati incorporating and talk of incorporating, including Rohnert Park. And so a group of us says, no, we're not going to. Vern Smith: Have that. So we started our own incorporation initiative and. Vern Smith: We went from there, it passed and we became a city and we sort of built it from scratch so. Jeremy Hays: OK, So what was it like? I mean, building a city from scratch is.

00:13:28.000 - 00:14:06.000

Jeremy Hays: I mean, there's no two ways about it. That's a big deal. That's that's a big job. Vern Smith: Tell me about that. How? Why what? What did it take to build a city from scratch when I when when I first moved to Rohnert Park, that Rohnert Park had a what's called a community service district and which had some limited powers over its planning and authorizing? Vern Smith: Developers to acquire certain types of financing and. Vern Smith: I didn't pay too much attention at the time. I didn't have a particular lot of interest in the government part.

00:14:07.000 - 00:14:52.000

Vern Smith: Our son was four years old, playing on a sidewalk one day, and the stray dog comes along and jumps him and bites him and whip bit him in the face and had to go to the doctor. So the next night there was a district. Vern Smith: I went to the district meeting and told them that what happened and I won't know why we don't have some control over animals. Vern Smith: And I was told it was a county's problem, but that the district would do something about it. And I told the count, the district. I said if you don't do something about it, I will try to do something about it. So I ran for the next election and. Vern Smith: Became a member of the Board District Board.

00:14:53.000 - 00:15:24.000

Vern Smith: And from there we incorporated. Vern Smith: Had a Council election, so I became one of the first Councilman to be elected to the runner part. So. So I went. My interest in Roland Park. I've always told everybody Rohnert Park government was because I had a son. Vern Smith: Who was bitten by a stray dog and no one? Vern Smith: Took any responsibility for it.

00:15:25.000 - 00:15:46.000

Vern Smith: And so that has to change. Jeremy Hays: It's amazing that you can. Jeremy Hays: Trace your involvement all the way back to that one incident, yeah. Jeremy Hays: So you started. That's what got you onto the board and then you got the the city incorporated and you were on the first council. You were the first mayor.

00:15:47.000 - 00:16:03.000

Jeremy Hays: But you. Vern Smith: Pete Callan was the first mayor. I was second mayor. Jeremy Hays: Oh, I knew the second there. OK, but you still had to build the city from scratch, right? So tell me about that. Vern Smith: The City Council was sworn in, Pete Callahan was elected mayor.

00:16:04.000 - 00:16:40.000

Vern Smith: We started designing or talking about what we need to do and the first thing that crossed our mind was that we need an administrator. Vern Smith: Someone that sort of pulled things together because the Council's job basically is a policy matter. Vern Smith: And Pete Callan was interested in that job. So the Council said, OK, we'll hire you as the city manager. So the Council hired Pete Kalman, the city manager. He removed from the Council and I think will be is a replacement, I believe was Jim Rogers. I'm not really sure now. Vern Smith: Don't remember for sure.

00:16:41.000 - 00:17:26.000

Vern Smith: So from there we. Vern Smith: I don't remember where the. I think the Recreation Commission and maybe Planning Commission came along about the same time we were still getting county law enforcement services, so we thought about time now to do something about our Police Department. And so we had. Vern Smith: One employee who worked in at that time, you would call it public works Delaine Patton and Delaine Patton became our first police officer. Vern Smith: And I don't remember he had any particular training, but he became a police officer and was given the gun and.

00:17:27.000 - 00:18:36.000

Vern Smith: And so he was there for a short while in that position. Then we hired a police chief. First police chief was his last name was Binelli. I think he's from formerly from Sonoma, maybe. So. Chief Spinelli. Vern Smith: Had been in a city that was more organized in our city, so he really was sort of lost as a police chief and one officer and didn't really know what to do. So he spent most of his time at night checking the locks on the businesses and leaving a little note. I was here and your business is safe. Vern Smith: And so from there we gradually you increase the Police Department as it grew larger and we had several police chiefs after that. Vern Smith: We had one police chief whom his name escapes me but calls the public relations flat with the college. He made a comment that there's a lot of students out there that are Reds.

00:18:37.000 - 00:19:09.000

Vern Smith: And that really, you know, calls the college to her. Vern Smith: We're up and say, wait a minute. Who are you? Well, it caused such a flap that he decided he would leave. He left and went to work for the police union. I think it was in Sacramento. He tell a good story story about the chief putting notes on the door. Jeremy Hays: Very funny. So what? Jeremy Hays: Who can you tell me? Do you recall who was on the?

00:19:10.000 - 00:19:22.000

Jeremy Hays: First Council with you. Vern Smith: Pete Callahan. Jeremy Hays: Start off by saying the 1st. Vern Smith: Count. You know I have it in my folder.

00:19:23.000 - 00:19:50.000

Vern Smith: That is out here. OK, but does Pete Callahan, if you could start Vernon, just say on the first council was on the first Council, including myself, was Pete Callahan. Jeremy Hays: OK. Vern Smith: Ken Bell. Vern Smith: The other people, I don't remember their names, to be honest about it.

00:19:51.000 - 00:20:35.000

Jeremy Hays: OK. So on do you remember on the 1st on the night of the election for the incorporation? Jeremy Hays: And you got the you found out the yes vote. What was that like? Vern Smith: After the election that night, the night of the election, there was some, you know, jubilation but not really a lot because people expected it. But most people who voted for it really didn't know for sure. Vern Smith: What we're voting for, and so whether it passed or didn't pass, didn't seem to make much difference, except those who are more interested in the political side of the business.

00:20:36.000 - 00:21:06.000

Vern Smith: People voted for it because they trusted the people. That says, you know, it's something we should. Jeremy Hays: Do right. That's how voting often works. And so when you got on the Council the next day, there was the Council. What were the first challenges that you faced? Jeremy Hays: The things you had to deal. Vern Smith: With the first things we had to deal with as a new Council was to decide how do we handle our planning? How do we handle our recreation?

00:21:07.000 - 00:21:53.000

Vern Smith: How do I handle our Police Department? How do we handle public works? Vern Smith: What do we do about this long term sewer system? Those were the and the garbage disposal of garbage. Those are the major factors that the first Council really had to sit down and deal with because those are all vital to the Community, you know, existing. Vern Smith: That's a lot of stuff to deal with for new council first day of the city, no sales tax. I mean, what do you do? How do you do it? It was quite a task that for the city to start this process, particularly since most of us on the Council worked all day, you know? So this had to be done. Vern Smith: In the evening.

00:21:54.000 - 00:22:56.000

Vern Smith: With the city manager appointed, things begin. He could gather information for us and make it easier for us to make make decisions. Vern Smith: Uh, we happen to have a very good director of Public Works. Uh guy named Wiggins, who was with the district initially, who had a lot of past experience in public works. Vern Smith: So he was very helpful in us getting that part of the business up and going. And then we had to negotiate some sewer contracts with the county. We didn't negotiate garbage contracts with the company. That was very difficult to deal with. Vern Smith: And as a matter of fact, we contracted with a garbage company called Harding Disposal. The family who owned Harding disposal still lives in Sonoma County. Their business was sold not too many years ago.

00:22:57.000 - 00:23:38.000

Vern Smith: But we had some real arguments with the owner about service levels and he went so far one time as to tell me that he had put put a needle in a voodoo doll. Vern Smith: For me, I said, well, I appreciate that. Let me know if something happens. So wow, you know, we had a lot of exciting things to happen. Jeremy Hays: What were some on that subject? What were some of the earlier, I mean? Jeremy Hays: I guess what were what kind of subjects or issues were controversial in those early days?

00:23:39.000 - 00:24:35.000

Vern Smith: Probably in in the early days, the controversial issues would primarily around developers. How do we going? How how do we do the planning? How do we keep developers from trying to control the city, yet the main developer was the most important. Vern Smith: Asset the city head. So we had to balance those two things out and try to keep some kind of control on developer, yet make sure that he had the leeway to do what he needed to do or one of our major concerns at that time was that the developers were able to issue. Vern Smith: Certain types of bonds for development, especially for sewer and water, and these are the payment for these bonds, were automatically put on the tax bill. Vern Smith: Whether you owned it or not, if you lived in a city and the developer would got the approval.

00:24:36.000 - 00:25:27.000

Vern Smith: To do the bond issue, it would end on upon the tax bill that became a big issue. Initially, people got their tax bills were discomfort. Vern Smith: So it took a lot of explaining to do to the public to try to explain to them how this whole thing works. These were bond issue that sort of helped over from the district over into the city and some of them were 20 and 30 year bonds. Jeremy Hays: Anything else that that was controversial at the time? You shouldn't. Vern Smith: Not not initially. Everybody worked really worked together pretty much later when we became more organized, things became a more controversial, particularly with developers. When was that? That would have been.

00:25:28.000 - 00:25:56.000

Vern Smith: The developing issue became more controversial, I'm guessing maybe. Vern Smith: 1015 years later, when things. Vern Smith: Well, not that long. Maybe eight years later, six or eight years later. Vern Smith: We were had authorized development around what is now the golf course in Rohnert Park. We had hired an architect, landscape architect, to draw some.

00:25:57.000 - 00:26:31.000

Vern Smith: Very multi colored map of what should be developed in what places and this is one of those processes where you didn't have a formal planner but the city says we want this here, here, here, here and make this red and make this blue make this yellow. Vern Smith: Jim Rogers, who was on the council. Vern Smith: Had at that time. Vern Smith: Rested a lot of control away from Paul Gulus for some of the land that Gollis thought he had an option on.

00:26:32.000 - 00:26:51.000

Vern Smith: And he. Vern Smith: Brought a map to the City Council meeting one night for the golf course area. Vern Smith: Which you drew by hand. Vern Smith: And he wanted the Council to approve this development map, which he had drawn with some colored pencils.

00:26:52.000 - 00:27:11.000

Vern Smith: And that was uh. Vern Smith: Big, big issues, particularly with me. I really made a lot of noise over there. Vern Smith: It didn't get approved at that time. Vern Smith: Within O within probably.

00:27:12.000 - 00:27:28.000

Vern Smith: A week. Vern Smith: I had a call from the office of A was in Senator Collier. Vern Smith: And Senator Collier said that uh. Vern Smith: I hear that you are been voting against.

00:27:29.000 - 00:27:39.000

Vern Smith: Mr. Rogers develop. Vern Smith: I said, yeah, I had. I did vote against it because I'm opposed to it. Vern Smith: And so he tried to put pressure. Vern Smith: On me to.

00:27:40.000 - 00:27:58.000

Vern Smith: To change my voting and I wouldn't do it and about a month later I get another call from. Vern Smith: Adele money lobbyist who is in Sacramento. Vern Smith: And he asked me to come up to his office. Vern Smith: And so in in the Del Monte building.

00:27:59.000 - 00:28:27.000

Vern Smith: And in the PR office and he says I had a call from. Vern Smith: Doctor Colliers Cinder, Colliers office and he's very upset with you and he's he's threatening to. Vern Smith: Make it difficult for the company and the. Vern Smith: To develop some land near Gilroy, the Del Monte was in the process of selling off lands that didn't need for farming anymore. It was pine to develop property.

00:28:28.000 - 00:29:02.000

Vern Smith: And so he was threatening to. Vern Smith: Harmed ill money if I didn't fall in line and vote for Jim Rogers plan. Vern Smith: And I I told him where he could go and I went. Vern Smith: Back down to another floor and went to the vice President, Vice President of Development for Del Monte, and I told him and he says, well, you just tell him to go where they want to go because they're they're not doing anything. So just forget it. And I never heard anymore. Wow.

00:29:03.000 - 00:29:10.000

Jeremy Hays: That's old school politics. Vern Smith: Ohh yeah, and it started early. Jeremy Hays: Sharp edged politics, you know. Vern Smith: Sorry, very early.

00:29:11.000 - 00:29:35.000

Jeremy Hays: And you were talking about when you're saying that the the problem of balancing development and also the, the the biggest developer you talking about Jimmy Rogers. Yeah, yeah. Jeremy Hays: So I mean, it's easy this could have. Jeremy Hays: Not worked right? Like what made it work? Vern Smith: Over there.

00:29:36.000 - 00:30:09.000

Vern Smith: This with all the controversy in the city. Vern Smith: In development. Vern Smith: Having by that time, contact with other councilmen and other cities. Vern Smith: We have learned pretty much you know what, what goes on. And so at some point, you begin to compromise. You give up something and you take something and eventually the golf course got developed and it got developed in in pretty good fashion. And in later years, of course, we bought the golf.

00:30:10.000 - 00:30:42.000

Vern Smith: What that which was a little controversial decision too. It was a lot of money. Jeremy Hays: But you know you you listed those things, sewage, public safety, infrastructure, all those you know, those like 7 or 8 things that this the Council confronted when they first. Jeremy Hays: Got formed and I was thinking that. Jeremy Hays: And none of you were professional politicians or anything. Callahan wasn't a professional city manager. He just became one, right? How did you?

00:30:43.000 - 00:31:11.000

Jeremy Hays: But yet you're able to succeed and build a city. How did you? What made it succeed? Vern Smith: OK, at some point, we asked the county to appoint one of their planning people to represent to help us. Vern Smith: Which they did. Vern Smith: And the city hired on a part time basis an engineer.

00:31:12.000 - 00:31:46.000

Vern Smith: Who, along with the planner, were able to deal with the developer in terms of streets and how to lay them out and what their requirements were for developing the streets, the quality of the streets and all of those things. So as we. Vern Smith: Developed, we learn who we needed to have that had experience rather than we. Vern Smith: I would say that we learned fairly early that we couldn't just fly by the seat of. Vern Smith: Our pants anymore.

00:31:47.000 - 00:31:57.000

Vern Smith: As it was time to. Vern Smith: Hire people who had experience and get them where we where we could get. Jeremy Hays: Them and where did the money come from? Jeremy Hays: Pardon me, where did the money come from to hire?

00:31:58.000 - 00:32:44.000

Vern Smith: These people by that time we were beginning to to get property tax, some property tax revenue was coming in. Jeremy Hays: Got it. OK. Vern Smith: Not when the money that came into the city in the early years of property tax. There was no sales tax except some tax that the city would get just automatic distribution from the state. But the bulk of sales tax only comes once you have sales tax generated in your own. Vern Smith: What did you you know, Paul Gollis. Did you know Paul goes? What was his vision for the city? Paul Gola's visions for the city was to be.

00:32:45.000 - 00:33:24.000

Vern Smith: A number of neighborhoods. Each neighborhood have its own elementary school and its own park, with the schools and the park open space combined. That was his long term vision. He also had a vision for a city center and a lake. He wanted a lake. Vern Smith: You call it Lake Celeste, which? Vern Smith: That later became the golf course. Vern Smith: For Lake Celeste was was planned by Paul Gillis. So the A neighborhood B neighborhood C neighborhood concept was good for a few years, but once Jim Rogers got.

00:33:25.000 - 00:33:49.000

Vern Smith: Goal is pretty much out of the picture. That concept was. Vern Smith: Was gone and the school board had, which was part of the Petaluma School District. Vern Smith: Until later became their own school district at Rohnert Park, Cotati became quite independent and decided that. Vern Smith: They want to develop another elementary school.

00:33:50.000 - 00:34:16.000

Vern Smith: And rather try to work with the city into a neighborhood they developed it on the Snyder Lane, which was in the county. Vern Smith: So and so that sort of ended the neighborhood concept at that point, the development just went a different direction from there. Jeremy Hays: OK. Jeremy Hays: Just wait for Alan to come back.

00:34:17.000 - 00:34:35.000

Jeremy Hays: You're doing great. Burn. You tell a good story. Like I said, there's a lot of them from. Jeremy Hays: Back then, huh? Yeah. Jeremy Hays: I think I'll ask you next about the downtown area. The city center, that's pretty. Jeremy Hays: Keep going.

00:34:36.000 - 00:34:51.000

Jeremy Hays: He's on the phone. I'm picking up a little bit of voice from next. Jeremy Hays: Door. It looks like we're just going. Jeremy Hays: To have to roll with it, OK. Jeremy Hays: That's one of the things that can you actually just talk to me.

00:34:52.000 - 00:35:22.000

Jeremy Hays: About Paul Gold's vision for the city center and why that never happened. Vern Smith: His vision for the city center was if you could just say Paul Gold's. Jeremy Hays: Vision for the city center. Vern Smith: Yeah, yeah. Paul Golis vision for the city city center was a location quite a ways away from the current library Police Department. It was between there and Snyder Lane and South of of the Expressway.

00:35:23.000 - 00:35:39.000

Vern Smith: And matter of fact, there's a street in that area called Civic Center Drive. Vern Smith: Which was. Vern Smith: Part of the area developers. Vern Smith: We're anxious to develop it and the city didn't have the money to, really.

00:35:40.000 - 00:36:37.000

Vern Smith: Build a city center, nor to track the people who are interested in building a city center. We didn't have the money to anchor it with a. Vern Smith: Good with the Police Department building or public works building. Our Police Department was on a small in a small building on the Southwest Blvd. As well our fire department so that it it just got developed and people rather forgot about it. Vern Smith: City yet has a civic yet to have a Civic Center. We have a library and the Police Department with, you know, some open space. But we haven't got any further than that. The the city was sure it had a sure thing going when it. Vern Smith: Made arrangements for the insurance company property to be developed, but this.

00:36:38.000 - 00:37:25.000

Vern Smith: Apparently is a standstill. Jeremy Hays: Now looks that way, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. What were you know, you're talking about having the resources to bring things to the city center. What were what was the? Jeremy Hays: Well, let me just ask you a different question. What was your vision for when you, I mean you you had a purpose which which was making sure that the situation wouldn't happen again like with the when your son got bit by a dog, but you had a larger vision for the city. I'm sure like what you wanted it to be, what you how you wanted it to develop, what was your vision? Vern Smith: My vision, VeRohnert Park pretty much followed what Paul Gola's vision was because I thought that was a a good concept. It it provided neighborhoods that socially.

00:37:26.000 - 00:38:05.000

Vern Smith: Had the same thing in common. All their kids went to the same school the kids played in the same park. Vern Smith: And to me, that was a a really a good. Vern Smith: Concept and I worked very hard to try to keep that concept going, but as other developers got involved and things begin to move different directions, one person couldn't hold that concept and we had other City Councilman who lean begin to lean different ways. Vern Smith: Some were very avid developer supporters and some as myself were more concerned about environmental issues.

00:38:06.000 - 00:39:12.000

Jeremy Hays: How long were you on the Council for Lizard? 14 years. Consecutive. OK, OK, what? Jeremy Hays: Over those years, because you had a pretty unique perspective being a being from the 60 in 1960 and B being on the Council all those years, what how did the city change for the better over those years? Vern Smith: I was on the City Council for 14 years. During those first 14 years, the city was primarily concerned with trying to find its identity, trying to get up and running as a city, and by that time, you know, we were doing pretty good. Vern Smith: Also at that time, that's when politics began to be part of the city fabric, and from then on a a lot of of just a lot of politics. We had politics involved in planning. We had, we had planners who people accused of being in the pockets of developers and those things.

00:39:13.000 - 00:39:43.000

Vern Smith: Seem to be. Vern Smith: What was going on for at least for the next 20 years or so? Vern Smith: In the in the late 80s and 90s. By that time, the city was pretty much humming along as a as a just a regular regular city. By that time, people are concerned about growth, trying to control the amount of houses being developed. Vern Smith: I didn't want to be a San Jose again.

00:39:44.000 - 00:40:10.000

Vern Smith: So the politics changed from. Vern Smith: One thing to another. Jeremy Hays: They it always seems to be about growth and then it goes away and then it comes back to being about growth, right. And development, you were talking about how the in the early years, the city was really trying to find its identity. That's what a lot of it was about. Well, what was its identity at the at? Vern Smith: The time it didn't have much identity that most of the.

00:40:11.000 - 00:41:04.000

Vern Smith: Just in the county sort of looked down on it as an old, just an old seed farm trying to be developed. And so you didn't get much attention from. Vern Smith: Other people it took a while for that to happen. In later years I was a member of the local agency Formation Commission, the County Commission that decided annexations. By that time, Rohner Park was pretty much recognized. Vern Smith: As as a planned community on its own. Vern Smith: In good standing with all the other cities as a matter of fact surpassing some of those in terms of of population such as Sonoma Cotati and we had, we had very Progressive City Council members, all of them were very.

00:41:05.000 - 00:41:31.000

Jeremy Hays: A lot of energy we always have had. You know, I remember reading in the Rohnert Park press and one of its editions, I think in 1960, two or three. But it was, I don't know if you remember, but it was a declaration. The City Council passed the Declaration of Human Rights. Was the mayor at that time? Jeremy Hays: Tell me about that. Vern Smith: It was. Vern Smith: At the.

00:41:32.000 - 00:42:08.000

Vern Smith: You know, to this day I right now I don't remember exactly how that really got started. I know there was the issue in South Africa with the Mandela and we had the. Vern Smith: Riots and things in this country. Vern Smith: And the the South was boiling over again. And even at that time there was issues of. Vern Smith: Not discrimination. Male and female discrimination. And so the Council.

00:42:09.000 - 00:42:29.000

Vern Smith: Decided that they just want to take us, take a stand on human rights. Matter of fact, I have a copy of that resolution in that folder out there. Jeremy Hays: Yeah, yeah, because that seemed like a pretty. Jeremy Hays: Progressive thing to do at the time for a City Council. Vern Smith: It was at the time, yeah.

00:42:30.000 - 00:42:57.000

Jeremy Hays: What going back to the lafco, when you're on lafco but talking about the time that you're on the Council, it seemed like in those early years the city was doing a lot of annexations. What were some of the most important annexations? Jeremy Hays: And if you could start the sentence with some of. Jeremy Hays: The most important. Vern Smith: The most important.

00:42:58.000 - 00:43:42.000

Vern Smith: Annexation in the early years we had would probably be the southern part of the city, which later became Hewlett-packard's. Vern Smith: Operation and then in the northwest part of the city, which later today the casino is in those those in my mind were and of course those inactions came later than me. But the early and next early we didn't have really too much annexation. We had a lot of land in the city. Vern Smith: To develop that had already been purchased. Yeah, from the rodents. Right. And there's a lot of vacant land to be developed yet. Jeremy Hays: What were the?

00:43:43.000 - 00:44:47.000

Jeremy Hays: You know what were three or four, two or three of the most important developments, not housing or business. What were the things to happen? What would through three or four of the most important things that happened in those early years? Does the first decade of the city? Vern Smith: Some of the most important things that happened during the first part of the city would probably include the Safeway Exchange Bank. Vern Smith: Business is coming in. That's, that's because that's what we needed. We needed police for people to shop, to buy things. So the shopping centers were a big a big issue. Vern Smith: Southwest Shopping Center Blvd. Was the first one that was developed and then then we had the others. One Safeway came in and the rails came in. Paul Golis was essential to to all. All of those, especially Safeway and where Raley's is.

00:44:48.000 - 00:45:43.000

Vern Smith: The Rayleigh Shopping Center was a development between Paul Golis and Hugh Cutting that they have a joint financial interest and they're really shopping center. Later Golis bought out Hugh cuttings. Vern Smith: But by that time, Paul Golis influence had pretty much moved away. His wife had become ill, so he moved away and she passed away, and he moved and lived. Never came back to her own part to live. Jeremy Hays: Were there any other the you were talking about? The arrival of businesses? Were there any other things that were particularly important on the development of the public safety department? Vern Smith: Well, State Farm was a big employer. They came in probably the biggest employer along with Hewlett-Packard.

00:45:44.000 - 00:46:35.000

Jeremy Hays: But what about like city business like the I don't mean business, I mean like. Jeremy Hays: Developments in the city, like the development of the Public safety department that must have been pretty key. Vern Smith: Well, that you know, that's something the the development in the city of of the city facilities or services such as the Police Department all grew very slowly and it grew basically in line with the population and the size of the city. Vern Smith: Our city manager, Pete Callan was one of one of his biggest things was every almost it seemed like it was every council meeting. It wasn't was to compare the number of police to the number of people compared to center rows of Petaluma and other places. And we were always very little.

00:46:36.000 - 00:47:26.000

Vern Smith: You know where we had one policeman to so many thousand fellow or Saint Rose had three or four policemen. So this one. Vern Smith: Pete's number? He was the numbers counter. Jeremy Hays: Back in like as early as 55, Paul Golus was quoted in the in The Press Democrat saying his goal was to run our part to become an ideal, well balanced American community. Do you think that happened? Vern Smith: It did for a while. Yeah. Initially, I believe it did. It did what it was, it was. It was a good, balanced community. He took his clue from some of the developments that were taking place back east at the time. He wanted to sort of a modification of, and I don't recall the development, but there was one back east.

00:47:27.000 - 00:47:36.000

Vern Smith: But yeah, he he took that as sort of. Vern Smith: A model to. Vern Smith: To decide how he won't do something better. Vern Smith: In the runner part.

00:47:37.000 - 00:48:27.000

Vern Smith: And and I I I took, I think that Paul Gillis had a good vision for on her part, and I think it's unfortunate that that vision, you know, didn't it didn't last any longer, you know, than it did. Jeremy Hays: Are there from your time on the Council? What are two or three of the best decisions that you contribute? Best decisions that you were part of? Vern Smith: I think one of one, I think one of the best decisions that I was part of on the Rohnert Park City Council to me was when proving. Vern Smith: Sonoma, Sonoma State College and convincing Paul goal is to provide a temporary building and Rohnert Park for the college to operate until they could find a campus.

00:48:28.000 - 00:48:45.000

Vern Smith: We spend a lot of time with the state people. Vern Smith: To get to college. Vern Smith: Here and. Vern Smith: And I had a lot of had a lot of contact with the early college and I I can't remember the 1st.

00:48:46.000 - 00:49:28.000

Vern Smith: President now but. Jeremy Hays: Abe, somebody pardon me, said Abe. Somebody. Vern Smith: I just don't remember the name he came to snowman stay at. He was a biology professor at San Diego State and he came up here and became the 1st President. And I met with him many, many times over the early years when we were in the process of trying to get to college. Vern Smith: As aside, some of the issues came up was that the big issue was whether or not the address would be Kataria Rohnert Park. It it ended up Ronan Park got the address, but.

00:49:29.000 - 00:50:03.000

Vern Smith: The street East Canada Ave. right, of course. Why did you want to get that here? Vern Smith: In the in the city? Well, why did you want to get to? Vern Smith: We want we wanted to get to College in the city for a number of reasons. One is that it would help identity of the of the city of Rohnert Park. It would be a place for our children to finish high school, hopefully, and them would. Vern Smith: Want to go to school there? Second, it would be a good place for San Rosa JC students to to move on to the next.

00:50:04.000 - 00:51:03.000

Vern Smith: Place and it would just be a good asset, clean asset to the city. Now it in the early years it didn't always work that way. We had uh on East Cody Ave. at the South end of Rohnert Park. There was a building. Vern Smith: That became a dormitory. Vern Smith: And became the first colony had dormitory, I think around and it caused a lot of problems and a lot of rumors. And of course we had a lot of religious people in the community at that time. Just thought that was the worst thing in the world. Having men and women in the same building. Vern Smith: But it it we got over it caused an uproar there for a bit, huh? There was always an uproar over things like that in the early in the earlier we had lower. It's no different than the police chief making some comment about Reds on the campus. Anything that.

00:51:04.000 - 00:51:27.000

Vern Smith: Trigger, you know, became good fodder for a lot of community conversations. Jeremy Hays: So that was one thing where some other you're talking about good decisions you made on the Council, that you were a part of. Jeremy Hays: That was another. Jeremy Hays: Or that you're proud of.

00:51:28.000 - 00:52:28.000

Vern Smith: Other decisions I was involved in I, you know, I don't. Vern Smith: Think that I would take credit full, you know, take the credit for him. I'm just part of the Council. Part of the decisions the college happened to be, one that I was spending a lot of time and energy on. But for the most part that I was just part of the Council and part of the decision making. And if I liked it, I support if I didn't. Vern Smith: I didn't. So sometimes I got got good press and a lot of times I got bad press. So what were some forget whether you were part of them, not what were some of the couple of other of the best decisions that were made for the city in the first early years. Vern Smith: One of the earlier decisions that was good for the city was agreeing to provide a place for Hewlett-Packard to to move to Rohnert Park because it gave us a new place for people to work, and it not only that, but it brought from the South Bay a lot of expertise.

00:52:29.000 - 00:53:10.000

Vern Smith: That didn't exist. Vern Smith: And I tend to feel that. Vern Smith: Feel that that resulted in some of the so-called Silicon Valley work that eventually developed in Petaluma. Lot of those engineers that were Hewlett-Packard set up some of their own businesses, you know, in in. Vern Smith: Luma did the city actively recruit businesses to come here? Because I know it was really important for them to get businesses. Did they go out and say we weren't? We did not actively recruit business in early days. We weren't big enough to do it. We encouraged a Chamber of Commerce, which later we did.

00:53:11.000 - 00:53:56.000

Vern Smith: Of a Chamber of Commerce, we've provided money to the Chamber of Commerce to try to promote Rohnert Park. I don't know how effective it was. Probably wasn't a lot of money available, and the businesses weren't that big to begin with. Vern Smith: Over the years. Vern Smith: I believe that what attracted what was attractive to business. Vern Smith: Was the makeup of the city, the parks and the swimming pools. But the swimming pools were a very important part of of our decision making, which I was very proud that we developed all the swimming pools that we, we did and and businesses then saw this as a place.

00:53:57.000 - 00:54:35.000

Vern Smith: For employees or workforce, because a lot of people like myself were commuting somewhere else, jobs weren't here. Vern Smith: So there were jobs available for people who didn't want to commute, but my particular ex's expertise couldn't find anything available here that that was useful to me. Jeremy Hays: What? What are? Jeremy Hays: Some of your happiest memories from that era of the 60s, you know, outside of separate from, like your family and your kids and stuff like that. But to do with Rohnert Park.

00:54:36.000 - 00:55:29.000

Vern Smith: Some of the things in the early years that were that I think we all enjoyed was for example, we had a lot of the wives formed, it's called the Women's Association and we had a lot of social functions. Vern Smith: By that organization, they had beauty contests. They had all sorts of different things and a lot of functions throughout the year, and people socially were able to get together from all parts of the city rather than just one community and. Vern Smith: Everybody were younger in those days, had a lot of energy. As years went on, that sort of went away like it does in any city that matures. Vern Smith: But those things keep everybody socially connected.

00:55:30.000 - 00:55:34.000

Jeremy Hays: Did you join the 2030? Vern Smith: Club no. Jeremy Hays: A lot of I keep hearing about the. Jeremy Hays: 2030 club.

00:55:35.000 - 00:56:04.000

Vern Smith: No, I never joined any clubs in Rohnert Park. Jeremy Hays: Not a club joiner. Vern Smith: And I I was, of course, I I worked out of town. Vern Smith: Of the 2030 people work locally or somewhere close by, I was not inclined to join the clubs. The VF, the veterans clubs are are those things. I was pretty much occupied with my job at the Del Monte Corporation.

00:56:05.000 - 00:56:36.000

Vern Smith: We had an active political action. Vern Smith: Group there and I I taught political action courses for a while at Del Monte for the employees because the company encouraged people to get involved in their communities and since I was on the Council for some reason. Vern Smith: The public relations department thought that I might be a good one to do it, so I boned up enough to to put on a few seminars. Jeremy Hays: It makes sense. I can see why they recruited you for that.

00:56:37.000 - 00:57:05.000

Vern Smith: Did your what was it like to raise parent ray, raise parent to be a parent, raising kids in Rohnert Park? Well, it was raising kids in Roland Park for some people, I'm sure was a lot different experience. Vern Smith: Than mine. Vern Smith: I enjoyed the fact that our children had. Vern Smith: Open space yards. They're only we lived only a block from the school, so they could walk to school.

00:57:06.000 - 00:57:34.000

Vern Smith: On the other hand. Vern Smith: Being away all day, I missed a lot. Vern Smith: Put a lot of burden on Val to take care of them when they're all little and sick. Our youngest son. Vern Smith: Had asthma, terrible asthma when he was little. So they all spend a lot of time with the doctor's office. But I'm, you know, working so that I missed a lot when the children were small, I tried to spend as much time with them as I could.

00:57:35.000 - 00:58:25.000

Vern Smith: But that's one of the disadvantages when you have a profession that takes you out of town. I think the children enjoyed living in Rohnert Park. They all, yeah, good kids. You know, it's strange they, you know, they gradually all moved out. Vern Smith: And when our youngest daughter moved out. Vern Smith: I looked at her bedstead before her bed was still there, wouldn't bid. She'd carved on the one place that I hate dead, so I figure there must have been some argument somewhere along the way that upset her. Jeremy Hays: No, I think probably in every every kids life, there's that I hate dad moment.

00:58:26.000 - 00:58:56.000

Vern Smith: And they they enjoyed it. Two daughters lived in the same bedroom for a while, neither one like the same color. So the bedroom was. Vern Smith: Half the bedroom was pink and half as green because that's what their their colors. So I I know that things like that they were, you know, engage. Jeremy Hays: Right, right. Was was where do were most of your friends in the city? From a section or did you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Vern Smith: That they were doing.

00:58:57.000 - 00:59:38.000

Vern Smith: A section mostly. Yeah. Yeah, because all all my first of all, my friends in this city were from a section because that was the first section. That's where the City Council came from. And the good part of the growth of the city took place before the rest of the city was ever, you know, ever developed. Vern Smith: I mean I can. Vern Smith: Remember, rains had City Council meeting, the street was flooded, couldn't get to the meeting. Vern Smith: And the director of Public Works was going up and down the street in a little boat. Wonder if anybody wanted to ride. I mean, the streets flooded the drains.

00:59:39.000 - 01:00:02.000

Vern Smith: The ditches and the creeks and the. Vern Smith: City were built for a farm and not for a city. So when it rained, things went haywire. Sometimes, though, it took a while to get all of that straightened out, get the county to. Vern Smith: Dredge the creeks out so they could drain. Jeremy Hays: All part of creating a city.

01:00:03.000 - 01:00:33.000

Jeremy Hays: Is there anything else Vernon that you would like to add when you knew you were coming here? You thought maybe there was something you wanted to get across or maybe make sure that we we got on tape. Vern Smith: I would, I would say that the my. Vern Smith: Take away from this years in the city was. Vern Smith: In my mind was.

01:00:34.000 - 01:01:16.000

Vern Smith: Was very gratifying to me from the fact that I started out from my son getting injured to doing what we did and the company. Del Monte is supporting me. Vern Smith: There on on the city. So I didn't have any problem with. Vern Smith: Getting off of work when I needed to do city business and I'm I'm I'm proud of how the city developed. There's some parts that we should go in a different direction, but by and large, I think it's going well. I believe this current City Council is doing a good job. I don't always agree with them, but. Vern Smith: I'm not complaining.

01:01:17.000 - 01:01:40.000

Jeremy Hays: One of the things you just said was that you wish. There's a couple of places where you wish they had you think. Jeremy Hays: They could. Jeremy Hays: Have gone and things could have gone in a different direction. What were some of those things? Vern Smith: In some of the, I think the city could go in different direction and and some by not by maintaining the concept of the parks and the schools.

01:01:41.000 - 01:02:18.000

Vern Smith: Being close together simply because it gave a lot of open space for the city first of all, and not always an advocate of open space for a lot of lot of reasons. Vern Smith: So from that standpoint, disappointed the city didn't continue that concept because there's a unique concept. I don't know any of the city that. Vern Smith: That has it and it gave. It gave on the park a unique handle because today people were referred to on a park as the ABC. Vern Smith: Park City.

01:02:19.000 - 01:03:04.000

Jeremy Hays: Yeah, I I do with my wife. Does she grew up in Sonoma County. I didn't. But I came here and that's how she referred to it when you were married. You were the second mayor. But it was pretty early on, still. Did you feel like an an extra responsibility because it was a new city to make things work? Vern Smith: The mayor, when the when the city was early on. Vern Smith: We all viewed the mayor basically as someone that's just sort of make sure the Council conducted the business in an orderly manner. At that time. I don't believe any of us saw that the mayor had any unusual responsibilities compared to any other Councilman, but did. Jeremy Hays: You feel an extra.

01:03:05.000 - 01:03:40.000

Jeremy Hays: Special responsibility just being on the Council, being one of the. Vern Smith: City leaders? Ohh yeah. Well, I I always felt that any City Councilman. Vern Smith: Has a responsibility to act in the best interests of the public, whatever it is, and that they should be a good citizen and represent the city even when they're not on the City Council. Did you feel like you had extra the extra responsibility because it was a new city? There was a vision and Paul goes has had this vision. Vern Smith: Reckon when this I I feel that when the city was new, our responsibility basically was to develop.

01:03:41.000 - 01:04:27.000

Vern Smith: City and that's our focus was to start from the ground, from a seed farm and some way build a city here. And so that was the focus and that's where the satisfaction came from and and that was when the the politics wasn't a big issue everybody. Vern Smith: Pull together. Everybody worked together, and so we go. Everybody had the same sense I believe, of of responsibility, looking for the same goal, pulling in the same direction. Otherwise, would never. Vern Smith: Got where we were, even though we had a lot of disagreements, very few of them were very none of them were really significant in the early years. Jeremy Hays: Thank you, Vern.

01:04:28.000 - 01:04:37.000

Vern Smith: You're welcome. Yeah, I really appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, you did great. That folder that I gave. Vern Smith: And has a lot of.