00:00:00.440 - 00:00:21.380

if I could, if only for a moment I would silence the world's motors and the roar of the airplane would not be so much as a hump and the thunder of the locomotive would become less than among no blurring horns, no screeching brakes, no screaming police

00:00:21.380 - 00:00:39.590

sirens would come from the avenue, the din of industry would cease and the factory would fall into a coma. It's smoke would lift, allowing the forest to inhale deeply. And once again we would drink from the river. The miracles of the dawn and the dusk would

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reclaim their sacred stillness. Children would play a game of statues, the wino realizing the gift of his existence, would leave his bottle court, the right would swing to the left and the left would not know where to turn. Politicians would be left without plots to hatch

00:01:00.340 - 00:01:23.110

and the devil would run out of tricks, shouts would turn to whispers, whispers, the silent prayer, silent prayer into meditation, chicks in their nests would sleep and in every Canton and Hamlet in every town and city, one would only hear the rhythm of breathing. A deep

00:01:23.110 - 00:01:50.020

slumber and the throbbing of his own heart. And the only sounds interrupting this immense meditation would be the wisps of butterfly wings in a prayerful chance quietly. Their queen in each community love love, love Armando Garcia w welcome to cinema sounds. Thank you very much. Thank

00:01:50.020 - 00:02:13.850

you for that poem. That was beautiful. Um, so to start off While you lived in Snowmen County for what? 45 years? 40. Let me think. 40 three, you're recording from Mexico right now. That is correct. My home in Mexico. Yeah. When did you move there? Uh

00:02:13.860 - 00:02:42.240

2017. I've been here four years now. And why? Why did you move? Well? Um my then wife um wanted a change of life I guess and and then I have an identical twin brother and we, we wanted to retire together. So our wives got online and

00:02:42.240 - 00:03:02.970

started looking for places that you could retire where it's affordable. The weather is nice is all the stuff. And this, this village came up this town, it's called a kik, it's in the state of Jalisco. We are about 35 minutes south of the Guadalajara airport on

00:03:02.970 - 00:03:27.660

the shore of lake chapala. Lake chapala is the biggest lake in Mexico. It's a beautiful lake. And so so uh we decided to come down to take a look and we flew down on a sunday and the following day monday we took a walk to the

00:03:27.660 - 00:03:48.060

plaza and I immediately fell in love with the town when I was a little boy and into my teen years my family, both my parents were born in Mexico and my mom was born in Ed Maceio Sonata which is about a 23 hour drive south of

00:03:48.540 - 00:04:03.230

the Arizona border at that time it's a metropolis now. But at that time it was a talent with the plaza and quaint. And so when I came to this town in the plaza, I felt like I was a little boy again because it had that, that

00:04:03.230 - 00:04:21.370

charm. Yeah. And so we walked by a real estate office and the agent told us that there was a tour every Wednesday. So we decided to go. And he took us up into the hills and there's beautiful views of the lake up there and gated communities.

00:04:21.640 - 00:04:38.920

This is a place where a lot of expats and Canadians come to snowbirds, but a lot of people come here to live to retire. And so we were seeing all these fancy hunk, but it wasn't dark cup of tea. Yeah, we're a little disappointed. So at

00:04:38.920 - 00:04:51.950

the end of the day, the agent said, I have one more to show you. And it was beautiful hacienda style house. It wasn't real big, but it was a big courtyard. You walk in from the street, that's a solid wall on the street and you walk

00:04:51.950 - 00:05:12.650

in and all of a sudden there's this beautiful courtyard and the lap pool to swim and we fell in love with it. You know, we made an offer and the following day it was accepted third day year. We went, oh crap. Now what? And so you

00:05:12.650 - 00:05:34.550

know, we got real excited. And uh, and So we took 3, 3 plane trips. We brought as much as we could sold what we had up there. I sold a house and uh, the third trip down, we brought the kiddies. We have two cats and we

00:05:34.550 - 00:05:51.220

lived in Mexico from then on. I was a little bit worried that maybe there'd be a little bit of a culture shock, but there was absolutely none. I felt like I was back to my roots. I felt very very natural. Yeah, I wanted to ask about

00:05:51.220 - 00:06:15.960

that since your parents immigrated to the US from Mexico and then you coming from the United States to Mexico, What is that like? Does it feel like um like you're just going home or does it feel like you're in a sense places or my mother spoke

00:06:15.970 - 00:06:32.980

english but was embarrassed about it because she has such a heavy accent. Of course my brothers and sisters and I would laugh when she would say something in english. So she just spoke spanish to us made it easy. Uh you know, until the day she died

00:06:32.980 - 00:06:54.800

she spoke spanish trace. And my father was completely bilingual either spanish and that's the knuckles would come over. And then the spanish in the house. My dad always played Mexican music. Mhm. My sisters played richie balance and and you know american american rock and roll. But

00:06:54.810 - 00:07:12.170

we would have parties and kids would come the neighborhood kids and it was a mixed neighborhood, mostly white white people. And so we would have pinatas and the kids would get all excited and my mother would make mexican food that was always a big catch. He

00:07:12.170 - 00:07:29.870

was a really good cause. And so so it was it wasn't uh it wasn't a hard move for me at all to come down. It wasn't a hard move. It felt very natural. Mhm. Yeah. And when you grew up was that in san Diego? Is that

00:07:29.870 - 00:07:46.750

correct or? Yeah. Yeah. I grew up there from the time I was three uh and then out of high school I went into the military for a couple of years and came back home and went to junior college. And when it was time to go to

00:07:46.750 - 00:08:03.280

a four year college, I didn't want to go to a big big University with you know it was 35,000 students at that time. And I wanted to I didn't want to live in a big city anymore. So I looked on the map, the UC system, the

00:08:03.400 - 00:08:27.670

college system and cinema state was the second smallest college. And so that was 1974. I moved up with my wife And stay until not until 2017. Okay. And where all did you live in cinema? Uh First place was that we lived in sebastopol right there on

00:08:27.680 - 00:08:48.530

calder and main was the art mint. They're converted converted building, wood structure, an old building. But it was converted into nice apartments, lived there. Then we lived on Gilmore in ca tati and then finally we've moved to santa rosa. And so I looked there from, we

00:08:48.530 - 00:09:12.240

lived there from Must have been about 1980, 1980 on. Mhm. Until 17. And you mentioned your your mom would speak to you in spanish. Was that your first language? Yeah until we started going to school. Okay. And then my older brothers and sisters went to school

00:09:12.240 - 00:09:35.280

so they would come on speak in english and so spanish was my first language. But you know once we went to school we we soaked it up very easily. The english and what was a little different was the cultural difference. You know american kids would talk

00:09:35.280 - 00:10:02.380

back to their parents and I just couldn't conceive of that. And my mother was very catholic, very catholic prayed the rosary had us play the rose went to catholic schools mm And some of the kids were heathens or or worse Baptists. Now they were you know

00:10:02.390 - 00:10:22.920

there were of course went to catholic school. So we we were around catholic kids but prior to that yeah I don't know if there was, I'll just put it this way we had a very rich brain. My lingual bicultural and I say bipolar. Uh huh. Yeah

00:10:22.930 - 00:10:43.750

it was it was quite an upbringing. I I remember going to school after summer vacation and the teachers, the nuns would ask where did you go? You know to your vacation during the summer and kids would say Yosemite and and Yellowstone and grand canyon and I

00:10:43.750 - 00:11:01.450

just envied them. We were poor family. My dad was a truck driver. Seven kids. Uh my mother was a homemaker. And on top of that, she insisted we go to catholic school. So every penny was accounted for and we couldn't go on those kinds of vacations.

00:11:01.460 - 00:11:15.550

But what, what we would do is we would drive from san Diego in the station wagon to Tucson, stay with cousins and then go down to Mexico. It wasn't until I got to be an adult that I realized that that was a heck of a lot

00:11:15.550 - 00:11:35.410

more fun because in Mexico we had cousins with ride bikes and these little and we'll see all through the town. But they take us on horseback riding with milk cows for breakfast and get eggs. You know, it was such a rich, rich experience. And yeah, I'm

00:11:35.410 - 00:12:01.660

very fortunate actually. Very fortunate. Um, I know you've written that you didn't really become interested in writing until a bit later. Um, what was your first experience with poetry? Did you get any exposure in catholic school? Uh, no. Um, I got some poetry in high school

00:12:01.770 - 00:12:19.580

and in college, but I just didn't, I didn't care for it at all. I didn't understand it aside from a couple of poems like the Bells by your ground pool and an ability. I thought those were great poems. I like them, but I didn't, other than

00:12:19.580 - 00:12:39.760

that, I didn't care for poetry at all. And I didn't understand it. I wanted nothing to do with it. And then my marriage of Almost 23 years came to an end. Yeah. And I find myself living in a cottage between sebastian pool and locks it down

00:12:40.340 - 00:12:56.510

in the forest. And for the first time, my life is quiet, You know, it's raised with six brothers and sisters music and noise and fighting and laughing and chasing each other. And I raised two kids and all of a sudden it's just it's quiet. Was the

00:12:56.510 - 00:13:21.920

artist, the oddest experience, very surreal. And and that's uh I had started writing just before that seriously writing and true and lo and behold things started coming out in verses and stances and a friend of mine that love poetry, writes all kinds of poetry is looking

00:13:21.920 - 00:13:43.060

at equals Armando, this is really nice stuff, you should try and get it out, you know. So he encouraged me to put a chat book together of 20 pieces and I had them translated for my mother. So the book is in english and spanish and right.

00:13:43.740 - 00:14:12.000

Published 300 pieces, printed 300 books and they sold what the heck? I printed 300 more and they sold they would Holy Mackerel. And so I started doing readings and bookstores and libraries and people would show up that pipe books lineup, this is great. And so then

00:14:12.000 - 00:14:38.890

I started mhm I joined the Hills Berg literary club there, the the literary guild of Hills Berg and good public greetings there and and they had the Hills Board literary laureate. Doug stout was the first laureate. And they selected me as second laureate of Hillsborough. So

00:14:38.890 - 00:14:58.110

I continued writing story short stories. And then I started a novel. It took me 10 years to write Over 10 years actually. And I heard two different interviews on two different radio programs by novelists. And they both said their first novel took them 10 years. I

00:14:58.110 - 00:15:15.310

understand why now. Yeah, stand why. And so that's why it's called The Trip. And it's based on Motorcycle trip. I took in 1968 just out of high school with my older brother and two friends. We started in san Diego California and through all the Southern states,

00:15:15.320 - 00:15:32.570

up the east coast and then back we had real life adventures. So I wrote that and then I I fictionalized it to make it more of a complete story. And so it's called The Trip speeding toward the Cliff at the end of the world. And now

00:15:32.570 - 00:15:52.980

I'm we've been working about four years on the second novel and it's close to being done. So. And my brother and I just put out a collection of stories about growing up, mischievous twins in catholic school. Get in trouble with the nuns. I have a collection

00:15:52.980 - 00:16:11.710

called Profile With Homes and Stories. So did you brother have a background in writing before this job. You know, when we moved down here Um I heard about a group called right to the prompt to give you a prompt and then you write for 45 minutes

00:16:11.720 - 00:16:24.170

and then share it if you want with the group. And I took him I had to drag him to this group. He didn't want to go but I made him go and he took to it like a duck to water. And he he has to stop

00:16:24.170 - 00:16:49.150

writing since. So he's been writing about three years ago now and stuff. And his work is it's good work. Cool. Yeah. How about another poem? Sure, sure. Let's see. Silence. It brings me when you are a silent. It is as if you can see through me

00:16:49.640 - 00:17:07.700

as if I am made of class and my words stand naked before you with no place to hide. It is disquieting when you don't speak. It is as if the world has disappeared as if time light shadows, the moon were no more. And the only things

00:17:07.700 - 00:17:28.210

that can depend on are the cold in the darkness and loneliness, loneliness who carried me in his back pocket for so long before I met you. But just the same. I'm frightened by your silence in your eyes. Black is upsetting or perfect mysteries, revealing nothing to

00:17:28.210 - 00:17:57.750

me. Perfect mirrors reflecting only what is before them. The truth lie frightened child. Thank you. Yeah. Do you read those from memory. Yeah. Well the poems that I I like the best I memorize the other ones. I agree. And how long does it take you to

00:17:57.750 - 00:18:20.460

work on a poem To the right one. Yeah. That depends on the piece. A poem called a lot Renato. The other side is about a man standing at at a river looking across an immigrant and I worked and worked and worked on it and I just

00:18:20.740 - 00:18:36.080

got to a certain point and I just didn't know what to do. I was kind of giving up and I read what I had to someone that's the writer and the writer said you've got to finish the school. So I worked and worked and worked on

00:18:36.080 - 00:18:58.550

it. Finally he came to fruition and there's other poems. I mean it took me probably nine months from the exception of the idea to where I could call it. Done other poems will take me a week, two weeks a month. Uh, one poem called The Grand

00:18:58.550 - 00:19:18.800

bientot, The Great Wind. Mm hmm. It came to me almost verbatim. It's a poem about the immigrants coming here, coming to the U. S. From the south. And I was trying to think of a metaphor for something you can't stop. And I got the idea of

00:19:18.800 - 00:19:38.100

a flood. You can't stop the flood. But eventually it settles and that's okay. Well, I know what the the stampede but the net eventually stops. So maybe about 2, 3 in the morning I woke up and the first line came to me a great wind blows

00:19:38.100 - 00:19:55.540

from the south to the north. You can't stop the wind. And then that's one of the few that I almost wrote itself just came out very naturally. Took me just, I don't know, a couple of days to put together. You've written and I believe spoken as

00:19:55.540 - 00:20:15.220

well about the muse coming to you. And um when you write poetry and to my mind, that's a very like classical greek kind of way of thinking about art. Um and the artistic process. And I'm wondering what does the music mean to you and what is

00:20:15.220 - 00:20:37.690

it like to and experience that? Yeah. Well, it depends on her mood. She's generous. It's great. But if she's in a pissy mood and forget it. Yeah, I don't know. Sometimes an idea will come and it will be very natural. And other times I haven't really

00:20:37.690 - 00:21:07.680

had to work. So I have a a very mixed relationship with the news. Mm It's so it's complicated. Mm hmm. Uh in contrast to the muse, do you find inspiration from other writers like you mentioned Edgar Allan Poe earlier. And yeah, the only one that can

00:21:07.680 - 00:21:31.770

really think of is Pablo neruda. Mhm. He wrote Keeping Quiet. That's a beautiful piece. And and so the first poem I did was my kind of answer to that money. My response. Mhm. The I can recite if you'd like It's keeping quiet And now we will

00:21:31.770 - 00:21:48.880

count to 12 and we will all keep still for once in the face of the earth. Let's not speak in any language. Let's stop for a second and not move our arms so much. It would be an exotic moment without rush without engines. We would all

00:21:48.880 - 00:22:07.980

be together in a sudden strangeness, fishermen in the cold sea would not harm whales. And the man gathering salt would look at his hurt hands. Those who plan green wars, wars with gas, wars with fire victories with no survivors would put on clean clothes and walk

00:22:07.980 - 00:22:24.270

about with their brothers in the shade. Doing nothing. What I want should not be confused with total in activity. Life is what it is about. If we were not so single minded about keeping our lives moving and for once could do nothing. Perhaps this huge silence

00:22:24.640 - 00:22:41.960

might interrupt his sadness of not understanding ourselves and of threatening ourselves with death. Perhaps the earth could teach us. That's when everything seems to be that in winter and later proves to be alive. Now I will count to 12 and you keep still in my wardrobe.

00:22:43.840 - 00:23:03.380

I think that's one of the most beautiful poems I've ever red. It's a hell of a first poem. Parade. Yeah, that's a, that's Pablo neruda. Uh, and I take inspiration for him. There's uh, there was a movie called Il Postino and it was based on neruda

00:23:03.380 - 00:23:25.000

when he had to, what he was. He had to escape chili because he was writing poems supporting the, the common people in the working class and took over his life was threatened. So they had to, they had to sneak them out and he was on an

00:23:25.000 - 00:23:42.260

island for a while till things got back to where he could go back to chile. And so this movie called a Postino is based on the Rudas experience. And so it's about a poet, an older man who goes to an island. Any Palestinian is the postman

00:23:43.960 - 00:23:59.340

and he finds out that there's this poet and so he gets the poet and through that to write love poems. Because the boston I was in love with this beautiful girl. It's a really good movie but they made a soundtrack to the movie and what they

00:23:59.340 - 00:24:24.670

did with the soundtrack. They got top notch Hollywood actors to read the rules poems and they put the musical accompaniment to it. It's just beautiful. Yeah. You can probably find it on amazon Postino. Beautiful, beautiful poems with music. Um Speaking of which you mentioned your dad

00:24:24.670 - 00:24:47.050

playing mexican music around the house was did you or any of your family members play music? Of course, yeah. Yeah. My sister's played you know rock and roll. Yeah. B And who else? Um Well I'm trying to think of the guy that we look the anyway

00:24:47.050 - 00:25:04.910

it's just rock and roll music and then we would have every now and then I know how it would come up out of it, what happened to come across an LP and it was like the sound of uh yeah south pacific the king and I Oklahoma

00:25:04.920 - 00:25:24.390

and I would play those over and over. Mhm. So the neighbors must have wondered what the heck's going there. You know the uh sort of a really wonderful thing is in Mexico here. I've made made a lot of good friends families and they play the same

00:25:24.390 - 00:25:48.960

music. My father played same exact the same artist, the same, the same recording, the same studio recordings. And so it's just wonderful. Um in an interview with Daedalus Howell in 2015 um you said that you usually write poetry in english and then if you translate it

00:25:48.960 - 00:26:09.610

will be translated into spanish. Um Is that still the case now that I have I have written in both languages. Okay. When I write spanish I have to have someone check the grammar and the the correct word and then uh so but I I mostly write

00:26:09.610 - 00:26:37.110

in english. Okay. Mhm. And I was wondering about translation. Um I finished um out of my heart this morning um and in the Acknowledgments um you think Socorro nelson for her translation saying the words that need to be translated. But the feel in this sentiment and

00:26:37.120 - 00:26:53.500

I was wondering if you could elaborate on that what you look for in a translation. It's a real tricky business because if you do you know if you put it through a google translator you're toast Give you we'll give you the words but not not the

00:26:53.500 - 00:27:13.620

spirit of the poem. So uh I've worked with, I have worked with 1, 2, 3, 4 translators, different translators and yeah you have to be I don't know, I don't know what else to say. It's just it's a tricky business and you have to make sure

00:27:13.620 - 00:27:35.270

you have to listen to it. Mhm. Because the words are important but the cadence Philip als, you know that's all you want, you want it to float and so when you translate it it's it's saying I'll say it's a challenge. Have you ever rewritten a poem

00:27:35.270 - 00:27:59.900

after it's been translated? Like did the translation sparked something that made you want to revisit? Um That's a good question. I can't think of one, I know that this is tangentially related but I had a translator and I worked with this translator for a month or

00:27:59.900 - 00:28:19.500

two. I got a whole bunch of poems then. And so I showed him to someone that taught spanish and the spanish teacher said my God, this is really high spanish. Oh no, that's not my audience. Yeah. My audience is the common man. The blue collar, the

00:28:19.500 - 00:28:42.510

guy that works with his hands. No, not the highly educated, although some of my poems arguably are, you know, you know, how can I put it without sounding too full of myself. Um I don't wanna say intellectual but uh sophisticated, I'll use that. Um but I

00:28:42.510 - 00:28:59.540

write them and I try to write in what they call it, an accessible manner where anyone can can understand them. And then and then I'll also use metaphor and simile and there'll be an like an underlying message. You can read it on the face and get

00:28:59.540 - 00:29:37.080

it, you can look a little deeper role. Um So you're known for your poetry, but as you mentioned, you wrote a novel uh um and you got your start writing opinion pieces or Well what happened was George Bush, Sr Herbert walker Bush, George Herbert walker Bush

00:29:37.170 - 00:30:04.720

sent the troops to the Persian gulf after Iraq invaded Kuwait. And I just had this flash back up. Here we go again, you know? And I have an identical twin. And when we were in first grade we met robert and Gilbert Macy's two identical twin boys

00:30:04.890 - 00:30:24.340

a year older than us and they like us, we're mexican american. We met them on the first day that we were first grade at a catholic school. Mhm. And we immediately became best friends. Grew up together, rode bicycles, went to the pools, but to movie theaters

00:30:24.580 - 00:30:45.030

we would shake fruit from their trees and sell them in the neighborhood, get soda bottles and turn them in for the deposit. You know anything to get candy and we just, we played ball together. We made each other laugh constantly. And so uh robert Gilbert were

00:30:45.030 - 00:31:01.160

drafted into the army and when I was on the motorcycle trip, coming back, it was our last day of the trip. We were in Los Angeles coming towards san Diego. My older brother called home and he told me that mom told him that Gilbert mason was

00:31:01.160 - 00:31:23.130

killed in Vietnam. And uh I was on my bike and I was crying on the I just kept saying oh Gilbert, oh Gilbert wondering what his brother robert would do without his brother. And so after I looked into the history of the Vietnam war and the

00:31:23.130 - 00:31:40.480

pentagon papers, the pentagon knew that they couldn't win it. But yet they kept sending young men over and Gilbert was one of them. So when George Herbert walker bush sent the trips, the troops to the Persian gulf, I got really upset and I sat down and

00:31:40.480 - 00:32:03.460

I wrote An impassioned letter to Gilbert. Dear Gilbert, it's been 20 years since you were killed in Vietnam. Here's what happened afterwards. I talked about, you know, the U. S. Getting out of Vietnam abandoning the people there, the the refugees that came uh there was terrible

00:32:03.470 - 00:32:22.410

racism toward him. People killed a few of them. And so it put it all in the letter that I would fight this thing in his memory. And I showed the letter to a friend of mine, he took me to the press democrat got the op ed

00:32:22.420 - 00:32:35.140

editor. She read it. She says, would you come in and take your pick at your picture taken? So she took my picture that they ran it as an op ed piece in the sunday paper. Mhm. And I just I mean it blew me away. That you

00:32:35.140 - 00:32:52.660

know, someone would think enough of my work too. Put it in the sunday paper and that sparked the right. I had been dabbling and writing up until then. But that opened the floodgates and once once I started writing after that I never stopped. That was 1989.

00:32:53.140 - 00:33:17.020

I never stopped. So I've been seriously writing for 30 years now. Yeah. How about another poem? Sure, sure. Uh See when I started writing seriously and I started writing poetry, um I got the idea to go to Mendocino, the town of Mendocino for two weeks just

00:33:17.020 - 00:33:36.870

to dedicate my days to writing. And I was there branded a cottage and next to the cottage for these great big trees, huge trees and a storm came through one night. I mean it was a massive storm and knocked down trees and knocked out the power

00:33:36.870 - 00:33:56.350

for 100 miles around. Everything went black. Now. It's writing this poem by candlelight in the dark thinking that one of these trees was going to wait me out any minute any second. So I wrote a poem called the herd. A great herd of clouds, the color

00:33:56.350 - 00:34:18.460

of enraged buffalo thundered onto the Mendocino coast. They stampeded out light, turning all to black fear. They mounted earth over and over making hard luck to her. They're potent semen impregnated her bringing forth the birth of a million million million white seeds coloring or otherwise gray

00:34:18.460 - 00:34:40.680

skin, a hope filled green realizing that she was able to reproduce yet again and ending her baroness earth took to the joy of motherhood as if for the first time. So that poem, like a lot of your others to me, there's a lot of physicality, like

00:34:40.680 - 00:35:03.090

a very visceral tactile kind of sense to it. And you've mentioned and you know, coming from a blue collar background and wanting to write for that audience as well. Do you think it's a reflection of that? That is a direct reflection? Yeah, it's a direct reflection.

00:35:03.100 - 00:35:22.100

You know, they say I was trying to write all this stuff that I had no idea and a friend of mine but I said look write what you know about and that's that's let's I would I would recommend that to anyone. Mhm. Yeah. So you write

00:35:22.100 - 00:35:51.420

in a style and in the form and the form, I guess you could call it blue collar. In fact, for a while there I was called the blue collar poet. Mhm. Yeah. And you worked and maybe this was part of being the Healdsburg laureate. But you

00:35:51.420 - 00:36:14.230

worked with students and I believe that san Quentin and perhaps with farm workers as well. Um there was a program let people first of all when I when I was vying for this for the glory of appeals berg uh you had to do like a mission

00:36:14.230 - 00:36:30.360

statement. What are you going to do is a laureate. And so I told him that what I would do is I would go to schools elementary junior high high college and talk to the students about writing and about poetry because those are the your up and

00:36:30.360 - 00:36:55.070

coming writers write Laureates et cetera. So that's what I did. I went to dozens of schools and high schools and universities and colleges and gave talks and seminars about writing um san Quentin, that was not about writing, that was a program. Um The format was kind

00:36:55.070 - 00:37:10.270

of like an a a meeting where someone gets up and pours their heart out. And so it was based on that format and it was a really pretty good program. They I went in there a little nervous because I you hear all these stories about these

00:37:10.270 - 00:37:35.460

animals that are locked up and there are people locked up that cannot be in society. Mhm. But the assistant pastor of san Quentin told me That 70% of the men in their do not belong in prison. Yeah. And when I finally got and I was I

00:37:35.460 - 00:37:51.030

was nervous going in, it was my very first team when I was going in and I was thinking well anything could happen and during the team meetings for six months prior, one saturday a month all day in preparation for going into the prison, they give you

00:37:51.030 - 00:38:07.370

the rules and the regulations and you sign a consent form that should you be taken hostage, they will the prison will not negotiate. So I go in there and I think well, you know what? I'd rather die this way than die. A lonely man ever took

00:38:07.370 - 00:38:22.620

a chance. You know? So I went in there and there was guys that had already done previous team. So there was a veteran team members. But I was new. I was a rookie. So I I had I had my task. I got in there's no prisoners

00:38:22.620 - 00:38:38.080

when you first go in there all having their their dinner. And we had to we had to move benches and pews in the chapel to get it ready for the we have we have made a room in there. We put a big curtain that divided the

00:38:38.080 - 00:38:57.990

room in half. It's a it's a cat cavernous stretch, real big. And so we divided in half with a big tarp tarps and then half the room we set up tables and chairs and then the other half was where we would have the religious part. So

00:38:58.000 - 00:39:15.600

I got done with my my part. And I walked out of the chapel into the vestibule and there were the prisoners, they were lining up outside. They were gathered around the glass doors and I thought, okay, put your fear aside and go out and mixed with

00:39:15.600 - 00:39:36.950

them someone All right. Yeah. So walk out and the first guy I meet is this guy that was blacker than black, muscular a small sharp teeth. I mean I could not, I'm thinking myself, why do I meet this guy? Why is this the first guy I've

00:39:36.950 - 00:39:49.090

been to meet? He's gonna eat me for lunch. And so I just very nervously said hello and he said hello. And I said, are you here for the retreat? You know? Of course he's, they're polluting. Yes, I am with you. My name is Armando. He said,

00:39:49.090 - 00:40:02.400

well, my name is Michael and the other prisoners are Rhonda's listening. You know, he's a the free man talking to a prisoner. And so we chatted a little bit and more team members started coming out and they started talking to the guys. So Michael and I

00:40:02.400 - 00:40:25.340

stepped aside and uh, you know, I was intimidated and After about maybe 10 minutes of talking, we find out that we were both raised catholic, we're both ultra boys. We both came families of seven kids and both our fathers for truck drivers. And and so when

00:40:25.340 - 00:40:38.910

it was time to go in for that, I did, I was, we were both disappointed. We wanted to keep talking. We're having a really, you know, we connected, you know, so, um, so we go in and we start the weekend and the director, the head of

00:40:38.910 - 00:40:59.370

the weekend tells everyone to introduce themselves and and my, my job for the weekend was to give a talk on forgiveness. And so I get up there and tell him that when I was a kid, my father finally lost his temper with me one time it

00:40:59.370 - 00:41:13.080

went into a rage, I'm not saying that I didn't have it coming, but he went into a rage. He knocked into the floor and his hand kept coming down on me and I was screaming and terror, you know, and what made it worse. My older sister's

00:41:13.080 - 00:41:31.150

boyfriend was there, my big sister and I was humiliated. So I uh, I was afraid of my father and I loved them and I hated it the whole bag. So I'm giving this talk right? And I said, but you know what? His father abandoned him when

00:41:31.160 - 00:41:46.730

my dad was little boy, he never knew his father, so maybe I should be mad at his father. And I thought, well, what about his father? Maybe he abused, you know? So I went all the way back to Adam the need and then finding to God,

00:41:47.110 - 00:42:05.440

I had to forgive God for allowing this crap to happen. And of course I got all emotional and you know, fumbling my words and blubbering and, and so I get in my talk and of course the guys applauded, They really liked it. And so the weekend

00:42:05.440 - 00:42:20.190

goes on and on the second of the last night of the weekend, we bring a big sheet cake in with all their names on it and candles, we tell them your whole life is over, your new life is beginning, this is your birthday and the guys

00:42:20.190 - 00:42:32.770

with muscles and tattoos, let's go up there to make sure their name is on the cake, we have cake and ice cream. And so then the next day it's the final, it's the final night and they're out to having their dinner and we sneak people in

00:42:32.770 - 00:42:53.350

from the outside, they've all been cleared, you have to get clearance way ahead of time. And so the chapel has got maybe 100 people, civilians and the, the men come in from supper and everyone's applauding them and they're just looking at all on the altar, they

00:42:53.360 - 00:43:11.950

got table, they got chairs set up in the microphone and the record gets up and says, okay, you put our stories because some of the men gave powerful stories about their drug addictions, about them being in jail. That's the, the prisoners could relate. And after a

00:43:11.950 - 00:43:31.270

while after they hear so many stories that they start pouring their stuff out, why, why they're in jail what they did wrong and saying, you feel that the movement, you know, guys are just guys start to get better. It's a very, very effective program. So anyway,

00:43:31.280 - 00:43:47.350

so they're up there and one x one goes up and says, you know what the weekend meant to him and more than one guy said, I had my first birthday party, wow breaks your heart, break your heart. And so Michael this guy that I had met,

00:43:47.360 - 00:44:00.910

goes up to the mic and he says, there's a man out there that killed my favorite brother and I know where he is. I'm going to get a car and I'm gonna follow him. I'm going to stop him. And then when I know I can get

00:44:00.910 - 00:44:14.100

him alone, I'm gonna pull a gun on him. I'm gonna put him in the trunk of the car, take them out to the countryside, tell them why I'm going to kill him. Then I'm gonna kill him, he said, but I heard a talk on forgiveness this

00:44:14.100 - 00:44:35.310

weekend. He said, I won't love him, but I'll forgive him. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So the last guy says, whatever is going to say, the record gets up, says, now you can all come and you can talk to these men one on one if you want.

00:44:35.890 - 00:44:51.220

And of course everybody rushes and the guys come down and Michael finds me. He puts his arms around me, he picks me up off the floor. I feel something snapped in my back. Yes, sir, Michael, I can't tell you what this needs to be. You know

00:44:51.220 - 00:45:11.350

that. And he says, well, he saved two lives his life and mine because I would wind up in prison once in my life. Oh, so yeah, that was really something. It's huge. But some of these guys, you know, they're in for drugs. Um, because there's no

00:45:11.360 - 00:45:29.790

outlet for them to make money live in these horrible neighborhoods. It's just I'm not going to go on the, on the whole thing, but I can understand and what The assistant pastor rings in my ear, 70% of the do not belong in prison. Yeah. There was

00:45:29.790 - 00:45:46.300

one man, a Mexican American kid, handsome kid. I mean his uniform was always pressed and neat and clean. Some of the guys are a mess, but shoes shined. I couldn't understand what such a nice kid was doing in prison. Well it turned out that he went

00:45:46.300 - 00:46:05.860

to college and he came home for a vacation, easter vacation or something. And he and his best friend went in his car to the, to the reservoir. They split a six pack of beer and when they were done they drove, we're gonna drive out and he

00:46:05.860 - 00:46:28.750

lost control and the car rolled into the, into the reservoir and his friend drowned. And it was a mandatory 10 year sentence, wow. And he said is, you know, he was ashamed of the family. Yeah. Another guy, Yeah, we'll leave it at that. I can go

00:46:28.750 - 00:46:46.910

on. I heard a lot of stories. Yeah. I bet you know some guys that I met, you know, they were sketchy. I don't know if I could believe what they said, you know, but I was surprised at how humane what good guys are in there. Mhm.

00:46:47.880 - 00:47:06.000

There was a break, we have breaks during the day, there was a piano up on the, on the altar, know what guy went up there and just started playing beautiful classical music and it was beautiful. Mhm. You know what he did there? He was yeah I

00:47:06.000 - 00:47:24.410

caught another guy during the break I went to the catholic church with catholic chapel which is right next door and he was kneeling in front of a statue of the virgin mary just crying his eyes out, crying his eyes out. You wonder you know. Mhm. So

00:47:26.180 - 00:47:53.350

mm hmm. So you you worked with the pastor there, you were an ultra boy went to catholic school. Um It's yeah the figure of jesus and various christian themes come up in your potent. There's one about that stuck with me a little bit about J. C.

00:47:53.360 - 00:48:14.230

Yeah J. C. M. S. Um Die for me. Yeah. So I'm wondering what your role is to Catholicism at this point. Well I'm sorry what? I'm just wondering what your relationship is to Catholicism. Oh yeah well George Carlin said he was catholic till he reached the

00:48:14.230 - 00:48:35.810

age of reason. Right God. And that's where I met you know when when you're when your mother is very strict catholic um when we would get sick she had this little holy icon that was seen should put it under her pillow. You know if you lost

00:48:35.810 - 00:48:58.090

something. She prayed to ST two. Um We prayed the rosary on our knees once a month during the month of merry. We prayed it every night and my sisters but race through the rosary in time to see the Dick van Dyke show, uh we went to

00:48:58.670 - 00:49:21.780

catholic school, Holy Communion, 1st Confession, confirmation matrimony, that just the whole, the whole thing, you know? And so when you're a child growing up in this environment, in this ocean, that's what you breathe, that's what you take in. And you know, I had dreams of being

00:49:21.920 - 00:49:43.200

a priest and being a saint and converting the whole bunch of people to Catholicism and being adored by people, you know? And so when I went to the military, I just started having doubts. Mhm. And so I quit going to church and I remember talking to

00:49:43.200 - 00:49:59.340

my twin about it on the phone, aren't you afraid of going to hell? You know, I don't want to live in a world that that's the goddamn you know, there was. And so As time went on, I kind of put two and 2 together. You're not

00:49:59.340 - 00:50:19.320

going to go to hell if you miss church. No. Um I went to the Center for Spiritual living one time and Bill Yoon Edward, William got up is my first time there and he was talking about religion, he says, well, you know, in some religions, you

00:50:19.320 - 00:50:43.590

have to be cleansed, but sin and he says, you're perfect just the way you are. And it was a revelation, You know, I grew up, it was bad, It was sinful. The devil got in my mind and made me gave me central thoughts. It was constantly

00:50:43.590 - 00:51:09.340

fighting. And so when I finally broke from the church and I look back on it, I got really angry with the church. When you're a child, the world should be a wonderment, a place of imaginable possibilities. Instead, it was fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear. I

00:51:09.340 - 00:51:25.810

was afraid of going to hell, afraid of the devil, afraid of communists, that we're going to bomb us at any minute any second. and so at one in my adulthood, I said, enough, no more fear, I'll do what I'm going to do, come what may, but

00:51:25.810 - 00:51:44.110

I'm not gonna live in fear. And that that was correct. That was the correct. So I understand the church has evolved since those times, but I can only go by my experience. Yeah. So I started writing stories that was going to just nail the church. You

00:51:44.110 - 00:51:57.310

know, we're just really tear into him. And I thought, wait, wait, wait, hold on. So I wrote my First Communion story about receiving my First Communion. And so you see it through the eyes of a child of the seven rule. You know, worried he's gonna send

00:51:57.310 - 00:52:10.720

worried about hell and this and that. And so, but it's also very comic. So who was ever reading is kind of laughing through their tears. You know, he's a poor kid, look what they're putting them through. And that was sort of the the angle I took.

00:52:10.720 - 00:52:33.570

And it was actually worked out really well. It turned out to be a real popular story. Graham bientot. Okay, A great wind blows from the south to the north. A great wind blows from the south to the north, over mountain and valley, over desert and river

00:52:34.050 - 00:52:50.590

and under and over and through the hands of those who have tried to stop it. Great blowing winds 1000 miles long, bringing with it a language and a food, an accordion and a fiddle and the song for each star in the heavens. A great wind blows

00:52:50.590 - 00:53:08.770

from the south to the north, bringing hope and determination, the hope of the home and the determination to earn it. Toyota and heart. Mother's Wind, our model and antler buck, rattlesnake puma and the ancient peoples of this land, recognized this wind that blows from the south

00:53:08.770 - 00:53:23.460

to the north. They say it is the grandchild of the cold wind that blew across the great bloggers that have no end. The wind which brought a 1000 huge canoes with sales. They say it is the cousin of the wind that blew from the east to

00:53:23.460 - 00:53:42.790

the west, bringing people and wagons covered with cloth, people with a curious tongue and the curious songs of the accordion and fiddle. Ah They say this fickle wind will change its course one day and then blow from the north to the south that won best of

00:53:42.790 - 00:54:11.980

show In a gathering of maybe 50 60 poets, late night day, made my my year, my life. Yeah. So, you're working on a novel now. Um Do that, your your sole focus or you do have side projects. It's 100%,, Sometimes a little something will come out

00:54:11.980 - 00:54:32.770

of the side, but 100% focus. It's every morning Minimum two hours up to six, depending on how it's going. Mhm. Called the scare crows memories. It's about a young uh mexican american man whose parents are in a sect of the catholic church that's found in northern

00:54:32.770 - 00:54:55.650

New Mexico and southern colorado called the penny dentists. And they They started the traditions back when the Spanish came in the 1590s plugging themselves and he falls in love with the white girl. It's his senior year in high school that she's new. And he just, you

00:54:55.650 - 00:55:12.270

know, it's what do they call the lightning bowl? Remember that from The Godfather? Michael Corleone goes to Sicily, he sees this beautiful girl, he tells the guys that are guarding and that are protecting him. Yeah, I kept on saying, oh, you got the lightning bolt. So

00:55:12.270 - 00:55:26.190

they arranged for him to meet her. Well, that's what happens at this boy. He sees this beautiful white girl gets the lightning bolt. So he goes after her at lunchtime, finds her speeding alone, he goes up to her, you're new here, she says, yeah, I transferred

00:55:26.190 - 00:55:48.310

from Albuquerque High school due to the small town. He says, well, welcome to Cruz New Mexico Dorothy Dorothy. Yeah, you came out of nowhere. You landed in the school where the principle is the clueless wizard. We have witches for teachers and we're the poor munchkins. And

00:55:48.310 - 00:56:05.270

she starts laughing. She goes, so, are you? The cowardly lion is no worse than the brainless scarecrow Now, it's a secret. It's a what you call it, a private secret between the two of them. He calls her Dorothy, She calls him scared. So 9-11 happens, the

00:56:05.280 - 00:56:28.760

planes hit the the towers in new york and he joins the Marine Corps was Afghanistan to Iraq. Three deployments comes back seriously wounded. Can hurt, doesn't work very well. And their engagement is back on. But then he starts getting PTSD. So there's a whole thing around

00:56:28.760 - 00:56:48.800

that now. It's, it's really layered. I mean, there's a lot, I haven't even told you that scratch the surface on this. Yeah, there was a whole lot going on. I have a terrific, terrific editor, the best editor of work with yet. She's worked for a major

00:56:48.800 - 00:57:05.620

publishing houses in new york. She's retired here in this town. Someone introduced me to her. So I'm working with her on the story. She's very excited. She says this is a real, real good story. So, got my fingers crossed. Yeah, yeah, keep tuned. Keep it tuned.

00:57:05.630 - 00:57:31.950

Absolutely. Uh and where can people find your work? Oh, it's on my website. Um, Armando Garcia Davila dot com. Well, thank you so much for taking the time today. It was great to meet you, Armando and dan. Likewise your novel When Comes Up. I really, really

00:57:31.950 - 00:57:36.830

appreciate this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.