00:00:01.259 - 00:00:17.709

And we are rolling. So let's just start with like our introduction. My name is Alex. I use he pronouns and I'm a junior. Uh my name is Kaya. I use she, they pronounce or she, her pronouns and I'm a sophomore. Uh My name is Jorge. I

00:00:17.719 - 00:00:36.000

use he him pronouns and I'm a senior. Oh, I'm Pam and I use uh lesbian and she, it was a pleasure. Thank you. Um So the first question is, would you be able to tell us how you met your partner if you do have one if

00:00:36.009 - 00:00:57.599

I uh my current partner? Ok. Um Yes, I um was in Providence uh um uh Massachusetts for um Women's Week in October of 2021. And she was there with a group, I was there with a different group and we just kind of met and started having

00:00:57.610 - 00:01:15.620

conversations and she was involved in putting on a documentary and showing it while she was in, in, in uh in town. And so um we just, she lives on the east coast. I live here. So we just maintained contact for a while and um had a

00:01:15.629 - 00:01:32.949

nice engagement. Yeah, that's nice. How how is a long distance relationship like that for you? I've heard that it's really hard for a lot of people. It sucks. Yeah. Would you like me to be more explicit? Um, I just retired and she's still working so we,

00:01:32.959 - 00:01:54.569

we go back and forth quite a lot and her job is somewhat remote working. So, and she's probably retire next year. I wouldn't recommend it. Um, ok. Uh, what issues do you have? Um Do you consider while choosing a candidate to vote for? Oh, politics, sorry.

00:01:54.980 - 00:02:24.250

Ok. Um um uh Democrat, liberal, um strong on um abortion, gun control, LGBT, rights climate, um gun gun control, all, all kinds of things. So it's really important to find someone. I'm not always women candidates but strongly prefer to support women candidates when possible. I, I

00:02:24.259 - 00:02:42.300

would consider myself the same way. Um Actually our school, we uh a lot of students gathered and did a protest in downtown Spa um for gun control. Yeah, we, we made, we made, we got our voice out there and we were on the press Democrats. So

00:02:42.429 - 00:02:55.419

it's important, it's important to, to find your voice and to know what to do with it. You have a lot of power, especially as young folks. You're not voters yet, but you're the next generation. So it is really important to get clear on what's important to

00:02:55.429 - 00:03:15.380

you and be visible and vocal for sure. Um Do you feel hurt in your community? Yes. Can you elaborate on that? Like, what things about, like, what, in what ways do you feel heard by your community? Well, I will define my community as my lesbian community

00:03:15.389 - 00:03:34.770

because that's the community I'm engaged with the most. Um I just started after seeing the film that my partner Nancy was involved in, I came home and started a new group. It's called Sonoma County Lesbian Reunion. And we have uh close to 300 members now on

00:03:34.779 - 00:03:50.490

our Facebook page. So we just showed a movie here at the Rialto. We're gonna be at pride. Um, we've had to dance and stuff anyway. So I'm very engaged in my community. These are women that I knew since the seventies and eighties. Whoops. Sorry. Um, no

00:03:50.559 - 00:04:16.910

worries. I have to do that anyway. Um, so yes, but I'm very engaged in my own community. Um, who has made the biggest impact on your life. It's a pretty loaded question. They're kind of all over the place. Yeah, they are. You are. Uh, um, I

00:04:16.920 - 00:04:31.290

would say I would say my mother, we were in business together. We had a mother, daughter business for about 10 years together and she kind of steered me into a career that I never would have done. And, um, it made a huge impact in my life.

00:04:34.690 - 00:04:57.179

Um, I never knew how to do that. I can never do that. Practice, practice. Um OK, this is also kind of like off topic. But like, what was your childhood like? Oh, fuck, sorry. No filter. Oh, no, I'm the same way. Ok. Um, my father died

00:04:57.190 - 00:05:11.850

suddenly of a heart attack when I was um 13. So it was just my mother and my sister and I, I have no memories of my childhood. So, yeah, I mean, like stuff like that that happens in the brain works in mysterious ways and just takes

00:05:11.859 - 00:05:24.260

all of it away. That's a good way of putting it. Well, that's very valid. A little traumatic. Yeah, I'm in a very similar boat. So I, I, we don't have the same experience but I've, I've kind of been there, you know, childhood trauma stays with you.

00:05:24.269 - 00:05:51.140

Yes, it does. Unfortunately. Um What motivated you to begin working in the LGBT Q community? Like activism wise. Uh I started doing things in college, uh help form a um a women's, a women's center. Um got involved in quite a few different organizations and stuff partly

00:05:51.149 - 00:06:08.570

because it was the seventies and we were very insular because it was not a very welcoming community. Um It was a way of, of creating community but also being very safe, but it was, it was an amazing time here in Sonoma County for the lesbian community.

00:06:09.480 - 00:06:26.380

Um Actually, on a similar note, uh do you know when you came out or like, what was it that brought you out of the closet? Yes, I came out 50 years ago. Yeah. Wow. I realized that the other day, um, long time ago, what, what was

00:06:26.390 - 00:06:38.739

the whole question? Like, what, what was it that either made you feel safe enough to come out of the closet or what was it that helped you realize that you were in the closet in the first place? Right. Right. No, I, I was not aware that

00:06:38.750 - 00:06:53.799

I was in the closet. I was taking classes at Sonoma State, um, taking a fair amount of women's studies classes. And so I remember there was a lesbian panel and I was sitting at the very, very, very back of an auditorium going, oh, I have no

00:06:53.809 - 00:07:10.809

interest in seeing this and the more they talked, I kind of understood what was going on with me. I did not realize, but I think, I think if it hadn't been for the trauma, my father's passing, I probably would have been dealing with it earlier, but

00:07:10.820 - 00:07:32.730

that kind of overshadowed many years. So it was an awakening. Um How did your, like, family's views on like, sexual orientation or just like your sexuality um, affect your life or like just like the people around you? Um, when I came out I knew a lot

00:07:32.739 - 00:07:54.130

of women whose families disowned them and that was not uncommon for lesbians, probably gay men too, for sure. Um, so I pulled away from my mother who, um, so I lived here and she lived in Southern California. So I, I just pulled away but when we

00:07:54.140 - 00:08:10.739

did have conversations, I would drop hints. So I just thought she's smart. She will put this together at some point. But I meanwhile was trying to protect myself. And at some point she did, she asked, you know, and I, I said, yes, I'm, I'm a lesbian

00:08:10.750 - 00:08:27.779

and it took her well to come to terms with that. Um I remember one conversation, I'm sitting in my dorm room and she called me and she said, I, I don't think you should call yourself that mom. What, what do you mean? What shouldn't I call

00:08:27.790 - 00:08:50.218

myself? Don't call yourself a lesbian. Ok. What should I call myself bisexual? I've never slept with a man. Just go out and do it. So, um, well, I didn't do that. Um, it, it did take her a while to come to terms with it, but she

00:08:50.229 - 00:09:07.510

actually, there was, um, national coming out day October 18th 19th. I forget about that. Oh, yeah, it, it's still big. But anyway, the guy who started it, um, turned out to be a friend of my mother's and so he would have retreats. He was a psychologist

00:09:07.520 - 00:09:21.510

or therapist in L A. He had retreats for family members and for LGBT people who were dealing with their own sexual orientation. And so she went on a retreat and after that she, you know, she was like, everything's ok and she, she got it. She really

00:09:21.520 - 00:09:39.770

did. So the, um, it like most of us. When we come out, we have been dealing with it for years and trying to figure out what this means and what, what our identity is. But when we disclose to someone, we want them on board and that's

00:09:39.780 - 00:09:54.530

not possible if it's new information to them, they have their own process of trying to understand what everything is, what it means, what it means to them and the loss of their ideal for what their child is going through. But one of the things I, I

00:09:54.539 - 00:10:09.469

said after a while to my mother, I said you were closeted with your friends. You're choosing not to talk to any of them about your daughter. And I said, I bet there's a lot of your friends whose kids are gay too. And eventually she did start

00:10:09.479 - 00:10:26.080

talking to them and lo and behold, she wasn't the only one. So then she had a support system too. Did you have a support system in like, helping you, like, through coping with the fact that like, with your mother and how that had happened while you

00:10:26.090 - 00:10:41.190

were waiting for her to come to terms with your sexuality. I had friends and I knew she'd come around. I, I did not think, I mean, I knew that she would not disown me really. But, um, it was a fear. Yeah, it's, it's definitely a fear,

00:10:41.200 - 00:11:00.599

especially because, like, coming out is such a scary thing to do, especially if you don't know how they're gonna react. Absolutely. Yeah, you're very vulnerable. Um, how has your sexuality and identity shaped and affected your relationships? Well, I, um, I, I am, which is not a,

00:11:00.609 - 00:11:23.500

not a terminology we had back in the old days. Um, I'm a gold star lesbian. So I've never related to men sexually. Um, I'm, um, only related to women. I did have a partner who was bisexual at one point and, um, she had a hard time.

00:11:24.340 - 00:11:45.299

She had a hard time. Uh even though we were together for eight years with the identity and the loss of status that she couldn't quite grab grapple with. And um I tried to explain to her the loss of heterosexual privilege that she was experiencing because she

00:11:45.309 - 00:12:08.630

was now identify or being in a relationship with a woman even though she was bisexual anyway, at some point, she finally said this is too hard. Great. So cross that off my list, not doing that one again. Sorry. Um That answer your question. Yeah. Um Hold

00:12:08.789 - 00:12:27.409

on. Our world is really different than yours though because we really had very defined labels and it's not been as fluid. And so yeah, it's just, it's very different. I've had conversations with May and Anna who I think grew up in like the seventies and eighties

00:12:27.419 - 00:12:44.349

and she had told me about how like generals specifically were very different than they are now. Um And there's a lot more fluid labels for gender and for sexuality and like, pronouns are a lot more widely accepted. Pronouns weren't even something we ever talked about before.

00:12:44.359 - 00:13:01.010

Yeah. So what, what is happening for my generation is we, we can't keep up, we don't understand it. It's not a reality and it's, um, it's confusing. So, like this group I was with that, we were at Pride last year and we're seeing all these different

00:13:01.020 - 00:13:15.020

flags walk around and I'm just Googling. Oh, that's this and that's that. It's like we had one pride flag. And so now there's 30 or 40 or whatever, they keep coming out with new ones. And so it's, it's confusing. It's not and I'm not saying putting,

00:13:15.039 - 00:13:32.700

trying to say it's, it's bad. It's just confusing. I can definitely understand that. So my partner actually works at a university. So she's like, Pam, this is really OK. It's just, you know, it's expanding and the umbrella is, you know, is redefining itself and it's, it's

00:13:32.710 - 00:13:50.780

just normal. Um Now that like the LGBT Q community has been like more accepted over the years. Do you feel like envious of it because you didn't really get to grow up with like that type of stuff or do you feel like proud or do you

00:13:50.789 - 00:14:09.609

feel both um proud? Um I never, ever, ever, ever thought that marriage equality would happen in my lifetime. Absolutely. Hands down if I had to bet on it and say never. So that's amazing. It's happening um so proud and terrified because we're back in the crosshairs

00:14:09.619 - 00:14:27.840

again. And so they're gonna be coming after us. It's trans in the crosshairs right now. But as soon as that rolls through, especially if we lose the Senate and the presidency next year, they're gonna roll back everything including uh uh gay marriage. Yeah. Frankly, it's terrifying.

00:14:27.900 - 00:14:46.409

It is Roe V Wade and Ring. I mean, I, I'm trans and I both feared for my sexual health at that point and I'm scared for it now because I have no idea what's gonna happen. You should be, we all should be really anybody who has

00:14:46.419 - 00:15:08.460

any in awareness should be very aware and engaged. Uh, from now up until the 2024 election because that's huge. What happens in 2024 will reshape our history. If we go backwards, it, it will be very bad. So step up, it's like two cents. Um, I guess

00:15:08.469 - 00:15:28.059

I can have a question. Um, just to tone it down a little bit, have some fun moments. Um Is there a, a fun memory? You just go back to every now and then when you're just by yourself or with, uh, with your partner. Um Sure. So

00:15:28.070 - 00:15:46.530

we had just met in, in, in uh province town and uh we were going to a, what do they call it? It's called drag in Dragin. And the so it was women's week. So women were going in drag. I'd never experienced that at all. I had

00:15:46.539 - 00:16:00.719

no idea what it was. And so we were in line to go to see the performers. Anyway, one of the women who was a performer came down the line outside and asked people, she had this uh cardboard uh full of mustaches and asking all the women,

00:16:00.729 - 00:16:17.039

anybody want a mustache, anybody want a mustache. So, my partner, Nancy and I said, sure, why not? So we both put mustaches on. It was hysterical. So we have alter ego of Guido and Frankie. And uh she made some playing cards with her picture on it

00:16:17.049 - 00:16:40.789

with Guido and Frankie. So it was very funny. We literally, we just met a day or two before that. But it was really funny. Um How did you feel when gay marriage was legal? Was legalized? Shocked, absolutely shocked. 15. And then, I mean, I've got some,

00:16:40.919 - 00:17:01.250

if you don't mind me asking these are like lighter questions. You can elaborate as much as you want. I'm a Scorpio. My a I like, oh, wow. And you're not, you're the Deviant. OK. Um Let's see how this is kind of a deep question. Um What

00:17:01.260 - 00:17:27.030

have you accomplished so far? That makes you the proudest about yourself or something that you've done for other people or internal work or anything? Any um Well, I would say besides having a successful career for 42 years, um It's being an activist, it's being an activist

00:17:27.040 - 00:17:42.660

in, in politics and now within my community, I consider myself a kind of a community organizer. But I worked, actually, one of the things I was proud, I worked on the Hillary campaign. There were three main lead volunteers in Sonoma County that ran the whole campaign

00:17:42.880 - 00:18:03.569

and I was one of them. And, um, and it was great until it wasn't. But, um, so I've been very involved in politics and um, feel engaged on a national level as well as local level. Do you ever feel scared that what you're doing could possibly

00:18:03.770 - 00:18:25.689

have people angry at you? And if so how do you overcome that fear of putting yourself out there so vulnerably. Hm. I don't think, I don't think living here in California, I'm particularly vulnerable. This is a blue bubble. Um, Nancy and I were traveling on the

00:18:25.699 - 00:18:40.949

road on the east coast recently. We had just gone Olivia Cruise. I don't know if you're familiar with Olivia. We, anyway, it's, it's, it's a company that did, um, women's music and then they be, they started a, a cruise company. So it was 1/50 anniversary. Anyway.

00:18:40.959 - 00:18:55.510

So it was a ship of 3000 women for a week, which was just amazing anyway. And as we're driving back, we stopped in Georgia and we're walking around, I forget where we were and, you know, she goes to hold my hand and it's like, oh God,

00:18:55.520 - 00:19:10.810

no, you know, we're in the, in the south, you know, we're in Georgia. This is not, this is not safe. So that made me very aware that where I live, I, I do feel safe in California. Um, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm always aware of where

00:19:10.819 - 00:19:29.030

I am and how, um, visible I can be. But then again, I'm just an old white lady now. So they don't see that I'm a lesbian or a sexual person and we can walk to some degree, we're safer because we are old. And so people keep

00:19:29.040 - 00:19:47.030

saying, are you sisters? It's like, honey, I don't do this with my sister. So, so there's a level of invisibility now as an older person, which is very odd. Um I forgot to mention Jorge is not just texting on his phone, he's taking those good for

00:19:47.040 - 00:20:08.599

you. OK. I thought maybe you had somebody on the side. OK. Thinking about future generations or whoever would listen to this uh interview. Is there, is there anything that you want to share with the future generation, whether it's queer youth or trans youth or just whoever

00:20:08.609 - 00:20:29.410

listens to this? Oh, I think it's really important to have a good support system that's really critical for the day in day out life. Whoever it is a lot of people in my generation, we have our families of choice. It's not necessarily our biological family. And

00:20:30.500 - 00:20:53.349

however you define that to have people around you that you trust that trust you and that are there for you. 24 7. Um I think it's incredibly important to, to be awake or you guys say woke, whatever to engage, to really engage, to know what's happening

00:20:53.359 - 00:21:14.319

around the world, not just in, in this community, but the bigger world because that's gonna affect everyone's future. It really does. And I think stepping forward and being engaged is very powerful. I think that there's a lot of uh benefits for feeling like you're doing it

00:21:14.329 - 00:21:29.949

even if it's not like gun rights, you're, it's not moving forward. But, but you still are taking a stand and speaking your voice and speaking your truth. That's really important as a lesbian who has been around for a while. I also think that, you know, need

00:21:29.959 - 00:21:48.609

to know your history. I think it's really important for you to understand what happened before you in the previous generations. So, um, so this group, I was telling you about Noma County lesbian reunion. We're gonna march in pride besides having a booth because when you're all

00:21:48.619 - 00:22:05.810

are there, you don't see older folks, particularly what I saw when I was observed last year. It's a younger demographic shows up for by my generation that we're home reading the newspaper, kicking back having brunch, whatever. Um So I really want us to be visible so

00:22:05.819 - 00:22:24.729

that you can see that we're still here, we're still engaged and these are your foremothers. And, uh uh personally, the other thing is, and I know that terminology has changed a lot. I'm a lesbian. I'm part of a queer community, but queer was never a term

00:22:24.739 - 00:22:44.790

that we use back then. I'm a lesbian. I'm a dike. I'm a soft butch. I think that the lesbian community, younger folks, I'm sorry, this is generalizations don't see butch women. And I think that that's really a shame. They're not in the media, they're invisible. So

00:22:44.800 - 00:22:59.680

it goes from, you know, a lot of gay men, a little bit of lesbian visibility and on the media, they're all straight women who are playing on all these movies and TV shows, they're all straight women and then trans. So you're the, the breadth of what

00:22:59.689 - 00:23:22.060

the lesbian community is like is not visible. So that's why I'm pushing really hard for my community to show up for pride. There is, if you wanna look up, there's a lot about lesbian erasure. It's on Wikipedia lesbian in invisibility. And I think that um it's

00:23:22.089 - 00:23:52.060

just incredibly important to um to look at the history and to see and see a full set of options. I agree with that 1%. Um Do you mind if I ask you some questions about, let's see, um um about your relationship. OK, sure. Uh How, what

00:23:52.069 - 00:24:06.540

was your first date like with your partner or your spouse? I'm not sure when we had our first date because we were kind of long distance. So we, we just spend a little time in Provincetown. Um Just meeting each other first date. She flew out. I

00:24:06.550 - 00:24:26.979

don't know. So, yeah, um, we talked, we, we, we became friends and that's, that's what I value is that, um, there was no hooking up. This was, this was something that developed over time. We had a lot of conversations, especially because we're long distance, you know,

00:24:26.989 - 00:24:42.099

and talked a lot about who we were. What our priorities were our, our life experiences. What, what's of value to us? So, that was important. What are your, what are some of your favorite ways to spend time with your partner? Long distance? Do you have other,

00:24:45.479 - 00:25:00.599

um, we're traveling, we're traveling a whole lot. Ah, that's good. Yeah. Yeah. It's gotta be a long drive. Plane ride though. Plane rides, flying in tin cans a whole lot. Do not drive. I actually, I haven't been in a plane since I was eight. I'm terrified

00:25:00.609 - 00:25:24.030

of them. Oh, they're just fine. You're just squeezed in, like a sardine. Oh, boy. For hours. Uh, actually I have, how has, uh, the pandemic affected you and, like, affected your relationships with people? Contrary to what most people went through. I did the opposite. Um, so

00:25:24.040 - 00:25:42.910

I started joining Zooms in the, uh, uh, lesbian community for starting in 2020. And there were a couple that were, that were on almost every night. Um, some were, like, doing some virtual dating but it was about creating community. And, um, so one of the Zooms

00:25:42.920 - 00:25:56.689

I was involved in was this large group of lesbians all over California. And this woman who was a leader said, Pam, there's a lot of people in northern California. Um, why don't you do a picnic or something and get it, get people together, get women together.

00:25:56.699 - 00:26:16.770

So I did and we had like 50 women show up from all over the Greater Bay area. Yeah, during the pandemic. So mask on social distancing. But um I facilitate the picnics. It's not just come sit and shove your face. Um and, and ways of meeting

00:26:16.780 - 00:26:30.790

people because people were isolated. Um for a variety of reasons, part of the pandemic and part of it just as our lives as we get older, their worlds get a little bit smaller. Um So actually tomorrow I have a picnic, this will be my fourth year

00:26:30.800 - 00:26:58.020

of doing these picnics uh for the lesbians. Um We have 67 women. Rsvp. Yeah, I know. Um So I, I got more engaged during that period of time. Yeah, that's really impressive. I know like myself included. I felt very isolated, especially like taking classes online. Um

00:26:58.170 - 00:27:12.084

So I'm kind of sick of zoom calls by now but it was a very isolating time for a lot of people because we were all stuck inside and I have a lot of immunocompromised relatives that like, I couldn't really do anything because there was just such

00:27:12.094 - 00:27:31.709

a scary thing and it actually leads me to another question. Um How do you feel knowing that the pandemic is kind of on a downfall right now? Like how looking back, what were some of the like positive points of it? If, if any? Um Well, positive

00:27:31.719 - 00:27:53.150

for me was, I mean, obviously I met my, my now partner. Um but I met a lot of really amazing women doing these picnics and, and enlarge my circle of friends and realized how important community is and it continues to be important. Um Yeah, so it's

00:27:53.160 - 00:28:08.270

got, you know, I am glad hopefully that the pandemic is over. I fly with a mask. I'm very cautious. There were a lot of people on the cruise that we just took that did get COVID. It's not gone, but it's tamed now. So we have, we

00:28:08.280 - 00:28:33.069

thankfully, we have options. Do you wanna look at this? Do you want to tell me? Give me a question. Yeah. Give me one. We got a lot of them. I'm the one I came up with pages y'all. I learned that from her. She's in the South,

00:28:33.219 - 00:28:48.520

y'all. I use it a lot too and I've been in California my whole life. It's just a very gender neutral term. It is. Uh What memory of this time do you think will stay with you this time being just around the generation, around the, the younger

00:28:48.530 - 00:29:10.979

generation, the interchange. I do not have young people in my life. So I, I'm at a loss. I you know, I try to try to read up and understand what's going on. I get more information from my partner. But, um, it's a, it's a problem because

00:29:10.989 - 00:29:24.439

I don't understand necessarily, I don't, and, and a lot of my peers when I, I'm only a couple of steps ahead of them and they're like, I have no idea what these things are, are going on. I do not know, not necessarily how to integrate, but

00:29:24.449 - 00:29:38.920

I do not know how to connect with younger folks where you all are. So like we did this movie at the Rialto recently. It was about a um Nancy's community in Virginia and we did Facebook, we did meet up groups, we reached out to the junior

00:29:38.930 - 00:29:53.920

college and snow must stay and positive images and G SAS and all kinds of stuff trying to get a younger group didn't work, just didn't work. It's like, I don't know how to reach y'all. I mean, I understand, I guess Instagram is the way to do

00:29:53.930 - 00:30:14.069

it but like I have no clue how to do that. Did that answer your question? Uh I, I just have another question for those who don't have support system. Um What would you tell them and find one? No. Um How can they um go out there

00:30:14.079 - 00:30:32.170

and feel comfortable and feel comfortable and yet they find um someone to talk to some support. I, I assume a lot of schools still have G SAS. Yeah. I, I, my middle school had one. and isn't there one? You're all from anal? Yeah, there was one

00:30:32.180 - 00:30:45.454

but we haven't had a lot of members because I think a lot of people are either busy or don't feel comfortable putting themselves out there like that. All right, because there's a light assumption that this still was going on Gay straight Alliance. We call it the

00:30:45.464 - 00:30:59.015

gender sexuality alliance now. Yeah. No, it's no worries that that's what it was called my freshman year. Um It's a very recent change. We had one. But um again, I think that a lot of people are just scared to put themselves out there like that because

00:30:59.025 - 00:31:13.560

it's like, it's hard to do that and like be open with even members of your right. But you, but there are also our allies would come too and you also find out who the uh the teachers are that that because you always have to have a

00:31:13.569 - 00:31:26.930

student advi or teacher advisor and stuff. I would start one on campus really if, if that's, if that's a need, you know, because that's that way you find support, you're not isolated. I mean, how did you all come together? This is just a class, this is

00:31:26.939 - 00:31:43.420

an ethnic studies class, ethnic. And we talk about a lot of like all sorts of different cultures and we did a unit on, we're actually currently doing a unit on uh the queer community and we talked about Stonewall. And we, I've talked about a lot of

00:31:43.430 - 00:32:02.000

different, like, key figureheads of the queer movement of like, equality and acceptance and tolerance and all of that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I would say, you know, you've probably are talking to some people in your classes that you like, you feel like you're on the same

00:32:02.010 - 00:32:20.319

page with a little bit and sometimes it just takes having a conversation with them or say, well, let's go off and have lunch together or something like that to build those, those bonds and find people that you have something in common with. But you feel that

00:32:20.329 - 00:32:38.609

they can, they can listen. It's not just that they can, you know, talk a good talk, but they can listen and they can see who you are and set your sights high. Don't go for the lowest common denominator. Find people who really have big hearts who

00:32:38.619 - 00:32:55.010

are caring, who are giving people. Um, but you have to be that way too to, to track those kind of people to you. It's, it's not easy. I went through high school and I should say a lot of it was the trauma of my father's death.

00:32:55.020 - 00:33:07.420

But when I was in high school, when I found out I could leave six months early, I left and I never looked back. I have no contact with any of those friends. I tried to after college, I went back to L A and I came out

00:33:07.430 - 00:33:18.859

to some of them, they didn't want to have, this is a seventies. So they didn't want to have anything to do with me. So 50 years later, you know, I, what I learned is I, I needed to find my own community and it wasn't the people

00:33:18.869 - 00:33:30.535

I went to school with at the time and they did not meet my needs. And I, I remember going home and saying to my mother, I can't do this. She said, what can't you do? I said I can't chit chat. I just can't. Well, you have

00:33:30.545 - 00:33:48.140

to learn how to do it. It's like, no, I want real conversations, real conversations. When you find someone like that, you know, you, you hold on to them and you go, this person is worth worthwhile. I wanna be your friend. And III I have a friend.

00:33:48.150 - 00:34:04.170

She's, we've been friends for 40 years and I remember meeting her and she was like looking at me asking me questions, listen to what I was saying and very, very attentive. I want that woman as my friend. I, I said that consciously to myself. I want

00:34:04.180 - 00:34:20.628

her to be in my life. So she is, yeah, I think that um at least for the GS A relating things, it's hard to do that. And annually because there is a lot of tension surrounding like queer, the queer community and the trans community. And there's

00:34:20.638 - 00:34:36.449

a lot of racism both like it's, it's very systemic racism. Like, it's hard to find like a root of it because it's just so widespread and some of it's on the download, but a lot of it is really prevalent and we have a lot of activist

00:34:36.459 - 00:34:55.330

groups on campus that are trying to, you know, get rid of the, get rid of it and, like, figure out what it is, people like are reacting to and trying to change that. But it's really hard and especially right now with like the election and all

00:34:55.340 - 00:35:15.229

sorts of chaos and politics in Congress. Um It's, you know, there's, if you have an identity that is not part of the cultural norm, you're gonna be swimming upstream your whole life. It's a matter of trying to find pride in that and find community. And so,

00:35:15.330 - 00:35:29.350

you know what I'd say to you, Alex too is if, if you, if you find a, you know, a couple of good friends, people that you're really comfortable with, you know, it can grow sometimes whether you call it a GS A or just like we're having

00:35:29.360 - 00:35:49.709

lunch together because this is my peers that I feel comfortable and safe with and you know, it may grow into something more organic. It's not, it's not ever gonna be easy. No one, no one said it would. The, the good news is there's good news, bad

00:35:49.719 - 00:36:08.570

news as trans identified. You're more in the crosshairs these days. There's no question about it in the media nonstop. But this is your life, this is, this is who you are, you. Um you need support and we all deserve it. We all deserve to know. There's

00:36:08.580 - 00:36:25.010

someone in our life, no matter what we, how we identify, we need to know. There are people who care about us, people that we can turn to. Absolutely. Um I myself um am bisexual. So I, and I've had relations with the girl before but I struggle

00:36:25.020 - 00:36:48.010

to like, have that connection with the man. So like my question for you is like, how did you, like, like, truly determine like, like your sexuality, I guess. Hm. Um Always think that I think I was just like uh a little tomboy as a, as a

00:36:48.020 - 00:37:15.229

kid and stuff and I think I just was always drawn to women and um I'm not sure how to answer that. Iii I hardly dated in high school, dated men, I should say, excuse me. Um I think it was just, it's, it's just part of who

00:37:15.239 - 00:37:31.620

I am that I, that I knew it, but well, I didn't know it for a long time. I just was AEX for, for quiet until I was probably like 19 when I came out. But this thing, I think there's something innate that told me that this

00:37:31.629 - 00:37:57.409

is, this is who I am and I just needed to listen to it and Howe however you identify is fine. Um Do you wanna ask more or uh up to you. Ok. Ok. Let's see. Is there anything in particular that you want to talk about? No,

00:37:57.419 - 00:38:13.949

I, I mean, I think I touched on it. I think community is really important for you all to find your own community and make that community and find, find the power in it and, and be engaged and there is to see that. I think, I think

00:38:13.959 - 00:38:28.860

that high school years from my experience was horrid. Absolutely horrid on a variety of different levels. I think it's a terrible time for a lot of young people. You've got hormones going on. You've got drama, you've, you're starting to become adults and enter the real world

00:38:28.870 - 00:38:53.449

and take on a whole new identity. I just think that, um, it's, it's important to, um, be gentle with yourself, but also to see some of your peers and really see them. So, I mean, I can use my own life experience when I was in high

00:38:53.459 - 00:39:06.860

school. So my father died without junior high when I was in high school. So, absolutely no one ever ever asked me about what my life was like. No one acknowledged that my father had died. I was like dying inside and having a very hard time and

00:39:06.870 - 00:39:26.840

showing up all the time and being absolutely miserable. None of my peers, none of my so called friends saw me. So there are people who have experienced trauma or having a hard time in your life right now in your school that need someone to say hello

00:39:26.850 - 00:39:51.780

to them and to see who they are and just to, to show them a little common, genuine concern because I think, I think that what I believe I understand about your generation is about um texting and it's about, you know, your, your phone and Instagram and

00:39:51.790 - 00:40:08.870

stuff like that. Um So my daug, my, my partner has two daughters. They, they, they don't talk, it's all by text. It's like what the fuck? Pick up the phone and call, talk, you know, have a conversation, meet in person, you know how valuable this is

00:40:08.879 - 00:40:22.889

to have to look at someone in the eye and see who they are and have a real conversation. If I text someone and all of a sudden it's going sideways, it's like, oh shit, I'm just hanging up and calling, that's, that's all. So I think that

00:40:22.989 - 00:40:47.520

I think that the lack of connection is, is probably more um apparent in your communities and invisibility and isolation. They're all horrible. That's, they're, they're deadly. They literally are. So it's just, it's a concern I have for the safety and the well being of your generation

00:40:48.790 - 00:41:11.219

to make it to my generation, you gotta be around. Yeah, I think that part of what our generation struggles with is finding role models of people that like are within their community but are outside their demographic. Um because I know like from my perspective, I don't

00:41:11.229 - 00:41:27.600

have a lot of like, role models to look up to that, like, like trans role models that have made it past where I am now. There's a lot more now. But I, my experience, I, I feel very isolated with it because it's, I've had such a

00:41:27.610 - 00:41:44.459

lot of different things happen in my life and finding, like, finding a role model, like finding somebody within the queer community that, like, they've made it, they've gotten past high school, they've had a job, retired from their job, have a partner and are in a healthy

00:41:44.469 - 00:41:58.290

long relationship no matter the distance. Like it's no, it's, I think that's very valid. It really is. Are, are you familiar with positive images? OK. Because I believe there's a lot of, well, I know they're younger folks too but there's a lot of kids. Yeah, young

00:41:58.300 - 00:42:12.489

people who are trans in that. Um I think that's really valid about having mentors. I mean, on the, on the flip side, I'm like, I want young people in my life but I don't have them. I mean, my friends are all in their sixties and seventies

00:42:12.500 - 00:42:26.040

and, you know, getting older, but I don't have kids. So I don't know how to find kids in my life. You're on the other side going. I want a mentor. I want someone who, you know, can show me that. It's, it'll all be OK, I can

00:42:26.050 - 00:42:44.790

make it through. So there's, there's a piece that's missing about how do, how do we connect? I have, I don't really know both. I think both sides have a lot to work through with trusting the older generation or the younger generation of people because I think

00:42:44.800 - 00:43:08.419

that a lot of people fail to realize that we have such similar experiences. And like we're all well debatable, we have some similar experiences and we're all in the queer community. And like, even if you find like allies, they allies are, don't necessarily have the same

00:43:08.429 - 00:43:25.580

experiences. So I think that it's maybe not more important but like it's crucial to find people within your community or subsection of the community to look up to. But it's hard when you feel so isolated with what you're going through. II, I think that's really true.

00:43:25.590 - 00:43:42.659

I think it's true. But ii, I mean, the other piece of it is that we all have different languages. So my community does phone calls, does Facebook does texting. You have, you know, tiktok and Instagram and stuff that we don't, we don't know, we don't do,

00:43:42.770 - 00:43:58.949

I can't, here's OK. This just relates to my community. We were trying to sell tickets through paypal or Venmo or I don't know what all the other ones are. My community doesn't do that. They just don't do any of that electronic stuff. So the, the the

00:43:58.959 - 00:44:13.560

range of differences is pretty extreme. So, so I was having lunch with some friends the other day and they were talking I was talking about this community that I've created and I said, you know, you, you need to be involved and get on our Facebook page.

00:44:13.570 - 00:44:24.159

I, the one I don't do Facebook. Ok? You wanna do email? We have an I don't, I don't wanna do that. I get too much electronics. I don't wanna be hooked to my phone, blah, blah, blah. It's like, what the fuck? How are you gonna create?

00:44:24.169 - 00:44:40.239

How are you gonna, you know, connect everything. My partner, Nancy was with a group of young folks and had lunch. One woman was texting the entire time with a girlfriend and they were having an argument for an hour via text. Oh God via text. So the

00:44:40.250 - 00:44:59.790

other women were saying, oh, just gho her. I'm like good God between the young ones who don't pick up the phone and the other ones my who won't interact on any kind of electronic media, anything at all. It's like this is huge, huge differences, huge.