00:00:00.009 - 00:00:24.690

You want to like? Ok. All right. My name is Maureen Donahue. Is that good? And, um, oh, where I grew up, I grew up in California, uh, near Monterey and Pacific Grove. I went to, um, 14 years of Catholic school and then, um, well, the precipitating

00:00:24.700 - 00:00:47.459

event was, I had a priest assault me. So I went running down the freeway to Berkeley and that's where I graduated. And, um, I didn't come out until I was 23. Although I guess the defining part of my person is that I'm in recovery from addiction,

00:00:47.599 - 00:01:06.980

specifically alcohol and I almost killed myself as a young woman. Um, but I got sober when I was 28 and I'm 73 now. So it's been a long time. Um, I don't know. Uh, I couldn't have done it without the support of the lesbians in this

00:01:06.989 - 00:01:25.239

community, for sure. And, um, um, do you think, like you said, you grew up, like, going to a Catholic school and stuff? Do you think if that would have been different and you wouldn't have been so involved in that religion, like you would have come out

00:01:25.250 - 00:01:49.110

sooner? Probably. Yeah, probably. Um, you know, Catholic schools are weird and everybody experiences them different, I guess. And I had a good education, I think, but it's so defined, you know. Um, I didn't even know there were, I didn't even know and I hope I'm not

00:01:49.120 - 00:02:07.989

offending you. I didn't even know they were Jewish people until I was in college. You know? I mean, it's like that. So, um, that's embarrassing to admit. But there you go. So, so in terms of sexuality, you know, it was, I mean, I was drunk during

00:02:08.000 - 00:02:28.050

my early, um coming out because I didn't know really what else to do and, and prior to that. But, um, a so I'm sure one of the things I was trying to get past was all of that judgment from the Catholic church. And, yeah, I'm not

00:02:28.059 - 00:02:46.750

seeing anything that's improving there really. Um, I suppose, I suppose there are some people that are good people but I don't know, it doesn't do it for me. Um, what was I gonna say? Oh, did you like, how did, was your family, like, very religious too?

00:02:47.320 - 00:03:10.830

How did that affect? My mother didn't speak to me, um, until, uh my grandmother died and then she sort of had to, I was raised with them. My father was, you know, absent. Um, so that was also a weird thing in that time. I think it

00:03:10.839 - 00:03:29.589

was a little more, you know, odd than it is now. Um, so, yeah, so, my mom, you know, I told her and I, and I told her that I was in love with somebody and I said I ended the conversation with, well, I love you mom.

00:03:29.740 - 00:03:44.820

And she said, I don't know how you could and slammed the phone down. So that's when she, she didn't talk to me until my grandmother's funeral. And it was kind of, you know, she had to and she came around eventually. Um but I'm, I'm sure it

00:03:44.830 - 00:04:00.779

was a struggle for her. You know, she had that plus I was always in and out of hospitals and stuff with my drinking. So she had a hard road with me really. Um But she did the best she could as a single mom um in the

00:04:00.789 - 00:04:23.769

fifties, you know. So anyway, there you go. Do you have a question here? Um Yeah. So you mentioned that your mother wasn't very, a very supportive figure. Did you have anybody that was supportive of you during your um addiction? Like helping you overcome your addiction and

00:04:23.779 - 00:04:44.929

also helping you with um your coming out? Yeah, I definitely had support around my addiction um in community as well as the 12 step program, which I'm not involved in anymore, but I was for years and um I just, I think I saw the other day

00:04:44.940 - 00:05:02.910

that the lesbian meeting is not happening anymore and it just broke my heart. You know, I thought, well, maybe I should start one. I don't wanna, maybe I should, you know. So, but, um, we had a really robust, I, yeah, community of lesbians in recovery when

00:05:02.920 - 00:05:21.559

I started out. Um, and I know there's some around still but we were like tight knit, you know, and helped each other and stuff like that. Um, and I guess the group of people that were that, well, let's see, uh, those were kind of the same

00:05:21.570 - 00:05:40.679

people that helped me with my coming out. Um, although, you know, I didn't, I didn't do that till later. Um, but I didn't go, I didn't, you know, I, I remember the first time they put me in detox. I was like, you can't do nothing for

00:05:40.690 - 00:05:57.230

me. You know, I'm a radical lesbian feminist and, you know, the person didn't say anything and that pissed me off. But so, uh, there, there weren't any lesbian groups that I was aware of, there weren't any gay groups that I was aware of. I don't think

00:05:57.239 - 00:06:20.500

I would have gone to them early on in my recovery anyway. But, yeah, so I kinda, well, you know, I kind of figured things out for myself but I also had really good friends. So, there you go. Friends are really important. Yeah. Um, what is like,

00:06:20.510 - 00:06:46.579

one lesson or just like, piece of advice that you would give to your younger self if you could talk to them. Oh, jeez. So long. So back there, um, um, don't, don't be afraid you know, there are other people just like you and, um, if you

00:06:46.589 - 00:07:13.359

don't see any just right now, then hang in there because they will appear and, um, coming out is really important and I'm glad you did it. And, um, no, you gotta do something about that. Drinking, I tell you. Uh, but, uh, yeah, I mean, yeah, so,

00:07:13.459 - 00:07:38.070

um, all that I used to work with her. So, um, p that's kind of all I think. Um Yeah, I mean, um back to the time when we were close knit, those of us in recovery are trying to be um the gay pride parade in San

00:07:38.079 - 00:07:58.660

Francisco is pretty big as you know. And um we were the first clean and sober contingent in it. Uh And everybody was like, yeah, you know, I mean, most people, some people just held up their beer bottle but whatever, you know. Um Also I should say

00:07:58.670 - 00:08:18.920

um I was in a theater group early on and those people became my core people kind of, it was a lesbian uh readers Theater about alcohol. And um we got pretty, we got groupies and everything. We got pretty famous over time, you know, and I just

00:08:18.929 - 00:08:39.439

think that helped my self esteem getting up in front of people and saying my story and um yeah, they were really important to me. It was Brown Bag Readers Theater was the name of it. Um Brown Bag, you know. And uh yeah, that was an important

00:08:39.448 - 00:09:08.630

part of my life. I don't think they're performing anymore. But anyway, I did it for 12 years. Hm, by accident. You know, I mean, it just happened and so I said, ok, that's cool. It was cool. Yeah. Mm. Ok. I have one more story about that.

00:09:08.979 - 00:09:26.780

That's kind of interesting. So, I mean, I think it is, um, we, we, we started to go in kind of all over California doing this thing and we were in reading, I think it was in a library and I can't remember who asked us to come.

00:09:26.789 - 00:09:42.570

But anyway, we were doing our thing and there were these guys in the back, you know, standing like this big old guys and, um, we didn't get intimidated, I think in part because we were, there were more than one of us, you know, um, supportive of

00:09:42.580 - 00:10:05.729

each other. But that was kind of odd, you know, um, we'd never been in that situation before that, that I couldn't recall anyway. So, so that was probably, uh, I'm gonna go for the early eighties or so. And so still, I mean, so definitely during that

00:10:05.739 - 00:10:23.330

time there was still a lot of pushback and prejudice and, you know, disgust and all that stuff going on. Um, I like to think it's a lot better today but I don't really know because I don't, you know, because I live in Sebastopol for crying out

00:10:23.340 - 00:10:52.419

loud and, you know, and I consider myself fortunate for that. Um But yeah, the rise of those right wingers is scary, you know, it just is. So um do you have a spouse right now? No. Um Trying to think of questions. Um No, I have been

00:10:52.440 - 00:11:13.250

grudgingly single for 23 years now. The last breakup just really, you know what I mean? So I stepped way back and um and I kind of regret it but I kind of am fine. I mean, I am fine. Um, and I'm an only child so I'm

00:11:13.260 - 00:11:27.210

used to being alone and I've got a lot of friends and so it's all good, you know, um, I didn't think I would be single at this point in my life, but I am. So, there you go. Do you think being like single for, like the

00:11:27.219 - 00:11:47.330

amount of time has taught you more, like you've had time to learn more about yourself and find yourself more? Yeah. But I was pretty much into that. I mean, so, so 23 years ago I was just still in my fifties, right? Or something. And, um, and

00:11:47.340 - 00:12:05.659

I, I learned a lot through the 12 step program over the years and as I said, I'm not involved there anymore. But, um, so maybe, you know, is my answer to that question, but I was also on my way, you know, pretty much established and, and

00:12:05.669 - 00:12:40.070

knew what I was about, you know, I knew my, um, propensities. I've heard that heard it called, you know. So anyway, you don't have any Children? No, I sometimes wish I did. But no. Ok. Mhm. Um, do you think there's any misconceptions about the LGBT Q

00:12:40.299 - 00:13:08.039

I plus community that, like, people outside of the community often, like, talk about if that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, you mean, like sort of common misunderstandings about us? Oh, I'm sure, you know. Um, ok. I'll see you guys but I'm not sure what we can

00:13:08.049 - 00:13:27.059

do about it. I mean, all these drag folks trying to read stories to little kids, you know? You know, which I think is fabulous but the outcry, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of paranoid about the state of politics in this country. Um, well, on the

00:13:27.070 - 00:13:44.940

other hand, you guys are coming up so it's all on you, you know, I mean, I really, I, I mean, it, um, we sort of fucked everything up with the environment and stuff. Um, but, and we didn't know any better, I guess anyway. Um, I have

00:13:44.950 - 00:14:10.140

hope in the younger generations. I think you, you guys can pull us out of this, um, prejudicial politics. I mean, it's so, um, it's so misconstrued and stupid, you know, and not inclusive of all of the wonderful things that minority people can bring to the table.

00:14:10.599 - 00:14:29.070

I think frankly white men are terrified because women are coming up and they're gonna, like, we're chipping away at their power. It's gonna take a long time but like I said, it's on you guys. Um, you know, I mean, uh, uh, everybody stands on somebody's shoulders,

00:14:29.119 - 00:14:52.609

you know. And, um, yeah, I like the way, I mean, most young people that I have talked to are definitely not right wing and I know there are some, um, and I like that we all get to say what we think about things. Um, but in

00:14:52.859 - 00:15:25.789

this country, uh sort of, um but the gay thing is, it's in its own category. I find um people are afraid, people are, you know, afraid that's too bad. Um This time, one question I have is um how would you like people to remember you? Yeah.

00:15:28.260 - 00:16:00.880

Um I'm, I hope as a kind person, you know, kind and um may be helpful to people in distress. Um Most of my career was in the helping professions. So I think that's where I lean. But um jeez, I don't know. I hope they, yeah, it

00:16:00.890 - 00:16:20.390

is. I hope they think I'm funny. They would say I was funny and uh liked my sense, my taste in music and um and that, that I was a good friend, you know. Um those are the most important things to me I think right now I

00:16:20.400 - 00:16:39.349

might come back later with some more. But um I, I like to hope I'm gonna be remembered as being a kind woman, you know. So spinal personal uh you mentioned uh your career was kind of like helping. Can you tell me more about that? Yeah. Um,

00:16:39.760 - 00:17:04.119

so, uh, I don't know what it was pretty, pretty soon. I got sober in 78 and I probably wasn't employable for about a year or so. But, uh, somehow I got involved in the county employment thing. So I did that and then a bunch of us

00:17:04.130 - 00:17:18.619

got laid off. So, uh, that was in human services and I was just a paper pusher. I wasn't really, you know, it was a stupid job, but I, but it gave me money. So, so I looked around for what else to do. And there was a

00:17:18.630 - 00:17:42.979

nonprofit in Santa Rosa that um that was a, a rehab place, um outpatient, inpatient, all kinds of stuff. So I applied for a job there and I got it. Um and that was really the focal point of my whole 35 years of working was um some

00:17:42.989 - 00:18:00.640

sort of assistance to people in recovery. But um I didn't want to do the, the one on one counseling thing because I get too impatient with these stories. It's like I wanna slap it out of them, you know, which I guess isn't very kind. But um

00:18:01.040 - 00:18:21.670

um so I did a lot of administrative stuff, uh grant writing and um running programs. And uh I think one thing that was um kind of remarkable is that I ended up being the director of the detox and residential Services that I was in and out

00:18:21.680 - 00:18:40.489

of all the, you know, for so many years that, that blew me away. I was like, wow, you know, how did this happen? Um So, yeah, I was an administrator. I worked at West County Health Centers after I retired from the county and wrote grants for

00:18:40.500 - 00:19:01.939

them around the whole o opiate problem. Um, you know, tried to get some education in there for the dogs and it's a tough one for dogs. But, you know, um so is that good? Ok. Absolutely. Um Like going back to your family and like, especially your

00:19:01.949 - 00:19:16.410

mom and having conversations with people who are just like, completely against your identity and your sexuality. How do you think, or like, what do you think is important to keep in mind when you aren't trying to have like a civil conversation with them and like, get

00:19:16.420 - 00:19:31.920

your point across there. Um You know, people have asked me, they, they over the years my friends have said, you know, I think my daughter is gay. What do I do, you know, or stuff like that? And the answer is just love her, you know, just

00:19:31.930 - 00:19:52.630

love her and see what happens. She'll either come out or she won't and you know, um say that question again. I wanna make sure I'm on your wavelength. Like, how do you navigate having civil conversations? 00, yeah. Yeah. Well, it's not so bad anymore, you know,

00:19:52.640 - 00:20:10.930

I mean, um and my mom was just freaked out. She was a staunch catholic even though she got pregnant outside of marriage and her husband left her and all this or her, whoever he was and left her. Um, but she, uh, that she came around, you

00:20:10.939 - 00:20:35.319

know, and I think for me in that instance, what helped was persistence. You know, I would, I would make sure that I called her, you know, every couple of weeks, Mother's Day, all that stuff and I just kept, um, doing it and, you know, eventually I

00:20:35.329 - 00:20:53.479

guess she, oh, and the other thing was two of her best friends from work. These two guys were obviously gay. So, I mean, I don't know if she ever put it together but it was obvious to me. Um, so I think over time she just, I

00:20:53.489 - 00:21:12.060

don't know if it was me or the general culture became more, um, accepting and she went along with it, you know, I mean, I don't think she was thrilled but, well, maybe she was, she really liked my last partner. Um, although that wasn't, she made a

00:21:12.069 - 00:21:42.750

mistake. But, um, yeah, so that's, yeah, persistence. That's the thing. Don't give up, you know, don't be aggressive but don't give up. Yeah. Big difference between aggress, aggressiveness and assertiveness. I think. So. Would you go back and live your teenage years again if you could shit?

00:21:44.430 - 00:22:12.489

Um, maybe, I mean, it was, you know, teenage years are hard, you know? They're hard and so I'm leaning toward, no, but I, but I'm gonna land in maybe, I think because I did have some really cool friends. And, um, but I don't know, I, I

00:22:12.500 - 00:22:31.810

didn't know I was gay. I didn't know what I was, you know. Um, and, um, I had my first drink when I was probably four so that was ingrained and it, and it became an obvious, so social tool for me. Um My whole family drank all

00:22:31.819 - 00:22:52.329

the time. That's what we did. We're Irish, you know. Uh I don't know. Like I said, I got a good education. There were some great nuns, there were some horrible nuns. Um You know, and the priest thing happened when I was 19. So that's, I guess

00:22:52.339 - 00:23:17.329

technically, technically my teen years too and I would not want to go through that again. Um Yeah. So, I don't know, maybe, I don't know. You know, I mean, if I, if I could do it now probably, but then, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um You said you

00:23:17.339 - 00:23:33.949

grew up in like near Monterey? And do you think that was like compared to like Sebastian where it's like very accepting? Do you think it was like that or? Not at all? No, not, not in the early sixties. You know, that's the thing with um my

00:23:33.959 - 00:23:56.699

story is things have just improved a lot, you know, since then everywhere I think. Um Monterey and Pacific Grove is where I grew up and those are both staunchly Catholic. Well, no religious towns. Um, but, you know, I was kind of insulated in my little Catholic

00:23:56.709 - 00:24:17.959

school thing. And, uh, I ne, I never looking back, I'm positive this one girl that I used to hang out with in the fifth grade was gay. No question. You know. But then I just thought she was cool. You know, and, and we hung out and

00:24:17.969 - 00:24:47.500

did, we went skating and stuff, you know? But, um, um, the community in some ways was pretty conservative in other ways because of all the tourism and stuff, you know, it could be kind of looser. But, um, you know how here, um, wine is the big

00:24:47.510 - 00:25:04.969

thing and, and, you know, understandably it's the tax base of this county, you know. Um, but, and not, but there's also, um, sort of a laissez Faire attitude toward drinking. It's, I mean, which I think is fabulous for anybody that can do it, you know, and

00:25:04.979 - 00:25:29.670

not get hurt, um, or hurt somebody else. Um, but the, the Laissez Faire attitude, uh, can be confusing, I think for young people, you know. Um, it's probably confusing for the adults too but they don't know it. Uh, so Monterey had some of that but not

00:25:29.680 - 00:26:00.250

like here, not, not like this county. Um, anyway, that's, that's what I can think of. Like, I don't know if I answered your question. You did? Ok. Ok. Mhm. She was a woman. That too. Um Was there any like point like that you realized you were

00:26:00.260 - 00:26:18.560

gay or was it like for you, was it like a continuous, like continuum of events or something like a gradual realization? It was, it was gradual? Um You know, so the other thing that is fortunate for me is I have a group of friends that I

00:26:18.569 - 00:26:38.130

went to college with and we're still in touch. The first one died actually. So we're all getting together to have a memorial thing for her. But, uh, it was really cool kind of. So that started when I was about 20. Um, and so that's been a,

00:26:38.140 - 00:27:01.270

what, a 50 plus year friendship with all of those people. Um, say the question again, sorry. Like was your, like realization of gay? Right. Right. So, among that group is the first woman that I ever fell in love with, but I didn't know that's what it

00:27:01.280 - 00:27:28.270

was, you know. Um, yes. And so I didn't ever act on anything, um, until a few years later. Ok. I also, when I first arrived in this county, my friend picked me up on her motorcycle in front of the eight ball bar in, um, Katti and

00:27:28.280 - 00:27:45.589

I had been drinking on the bus. So I went to get on her bike and I just fell over the other side. Right. So, um, I had my eye on her for a few years and she, um, at one point lived in Oakland and near the

00:27:45.599 - 00:28:03.560

women's building. And so we would go there and hang out and I thought, wow, you know, this is a trip, but I still couldn't quite make the firm identity, I think. Um, with the aid of a lot of alcohol, I finally did. Um, but I have

00:28:03.569 - 00:28:21.479

to say it built up over the years. It wasn't just whammo, you know. Um, so I always felt kind of like odd, you know, I mean, I went out with boys, I made up stories about boys so that I would fit in with my friends. Um,

00:28:22.699 - 00:28:40.479

ok. And this 10 my, oh my God, these guys in college, poor things. I mean, you know, they were just trying it on and I'm like, oh, no, you know, I, I slept with a couple but, um, I feel bad for them, you know, it's like,

00:28:41.280 - 00:29:12.660

it's not you, honey, it's me. Right. Right. Anyway, ok. And how many I, I got kind of interested in, um, lesbian liter literature and stuff and that was also helpful. Um, my first lover was a poet actually from Oakland. And, um, so I thought that was

00:29:12.670 - 00:29:39.030

quite up my street, you know, so to speak. Do you have a favorite author now or then? Well, um, that's not easy for me because I, I like a lot of different styles of writing in a lot of genres and stuff. Um, there's a guy who's

00:29:39.040 - 00:29:58.270

Irish whose name is, um, Niall Williams, I think. Um, oh, my God, it's the kind of book where you have to, you know, you're reading along and you have to go back because he said something so, so beautiful, you know. Um, so I have to say

00:29:58.280 - 00:30:23.630

he's one of my favorites right now. It's not gay literature. But, um, uh, we used to have stuff around here, like we had a bookstore, we had a cafe and there's always been bars center was in and stuff. All, all those are gone now. Um, so

00:30:23.640 - 00:30:44.290

I worry about us not having a place to hang out, especially younger women except bars, you know, which is, that's fine. But there's other ways to socialize too. You know, that cafe was really popular. It was um, down at the, not that end but that end

00:30:44.300 - 00:31:15.819

of Sebastopol Road. Um, right next door to the Hell's Angels. They were, they were nice. Um But yeah, anyway, wish we had stuff like that around now. Searching hard and then that's a pill was. Mhm. You mentioned that you grew up in an Irish family. Um

00:31:15.829 - 00:31:36.069

Is there anything you can tell me about the Irish culture? Um, or any traditions that you have in your family relating to that? Because I don't really know much about Irish culture. Oh, for crying out loud. Now you've opened up a can of worms. I've been

00:31:36.079 - 00:31:58.689

four times. They lived there for three months. One time. It's gorgeous. Yeah. Um, you know, I don't know how much of it is myth and how much of it is real but the whole thing about the Irish drink, that's what my family did. That's what we

00:31:58.699 - 00:32:18.979

did, you know, for whatever reason all the time. Um, and so, you know, I grew up as it, seeing it as a social lubricant as a natural thing to do and, and, and it is, you know, but I took it a little far. Um, I mean,

00:32:18.989 - 00:32:46.930

way far. Uh, you know, it's funny, I mean, I think again, back to the, my earlier life, um, I think my grandfather who I grew up around, um, I think they were pretty conservative politically. You know, they were the first, like, big deal cops in New

00:32:46.939 - 00:33:05.250

York City. They, they, and I don't know if that was a result of everybody, you know, having to come over here and make some sense of their lives or what, um, after the famine. But, um, so, however, not long ago, I don't know when a few

00:33:05.260 - 00:33:23.050

years back Ireland became the first country in the world to legalize gay marriage. So, you know, in the face of the Catholic church and all of that stuff because most, a lot of them are Catholic. Um, they've also started to peel away from the church because

00:33:23.060 - 00:33:44.030

of all the abuse and stuff because of all the babies buried in the back of convents. Did you read about that? Yeah, you didn't so there used to be these places, I think they're all gone now called the Magdalen Laundries. And that's where, uh, pregnant girls

00:33:44.040 - 00:34:03.900

got sent to do laundry for the nuns or whatever. And they had their babies and some of them, I guess, ended up with the babies, but most, uh, the nuns would arrange for them to be taken away and given to somebody or sold, I guess. I

00:34:03.910 - 00:34:26.500

don't know. Um, so that's pretty draconian. I mean, uh, uh, um, so there's that kind of conservatism, conservatism that it's sort of a vein that runs through the, you know, culture, I guess. But God, are they funny and musical and good writers and, you know, there's

00:34:26.510 - 00:34:50.280

all this wonderful stuff in the culture that I think way overshadows all the weirdness. Although you shouldn't ignore that. Um, the, these priests run amok is really heartbreaking, you know, because, um, you grow up with those people on a pedestal you always do with the, whoever

00:34:50.290 - 00:35:10.600

says, you know, and it, it really broke something in me when that guy did what he did when I was in uh first college. And, um, it was a good breaking, I think I needed that, you know, to like, really get away from all that, the,

00:35:10.610 - 00:35:34.340

the huge net that you get caught in. Um, but I wish it could have been a different way. Um, generous. They're very generous. I, I found, even though, well, you know, I guess it's not so true anymore. I don't know if it's true anymore. Um, there's

00:35:34.350 - 00:35:54.379

a pretty huge divide between the Haves and the Have Nots. Um, and it was as usual the Have Nots who were suffering the most in the famine and, um, got out of there. Uh, my grandfather, um, was, I think, beaten up at home a lot. His

00:35:54.389 - 00:36:12.669

father was an alcoholic and I think maybe his mother was too. But, um, so he left with his uncle and went to, I'm not sure where I'm still kind of looking at the records, but probably Canada, he went and he ended up in veterinary college in

00:36:13.479 - 00:36:35.540

Toronto. So he, you know, kind of made something of himself. I think it was hard. I think their economic circumstances changed over time. The, you know, he had three girls and as time went on, like my mom couldn't go to music school because their finances went,

00:36:35.600 - 00:37:08.459

he, he was a large animal vet. So, um, you know, large animals were not or we were getting scarcer with the automobile coming and stuff. Um, I would say industrious people, hard workers, um, drinkers, generous, funny. Um, uh, yeah, you know, I mean, I love them.

00:37:08.469 - 00:37:25.260

So I'm giving you kind of a skewed viewpoint. But, um, and I, and I shouldn't make that sweeping generalization, I guess because the priest that did the thing to me, he had an Irish Brogue. He was from Ireland, which kind of made him all that more,

00:37:25.629 - 00:37:47.120

you know, attractive. We used to go to his house and drink wine and hang out and stuff. In hindsight. Had a good idea. Uh, um, do you think if you had kids, like, you would continue Irish traditions but like, specifically, like the Irish drinking or you

00:37:47.129 - 00:38:05.520

wouldn't because of your experiences with them? Well, I would definitely make it known what my experience was and what my illness is. Um, and I like to think I would help, I would help them make up their own mind. Not. Yeah, I don't think black and

00:38:05.530 - 00:38:25.459

white works, you know. Uh Although on the other hand, I understand that you guys like structure even though you say you don't. So I don't know if that's true or not. Um ok. Ok. I would definitely tell them what happened to me. I would be right

00:38:25.469 - 00:38:45.459

out in the open with it and, and usually people react like, well, that'll never happen to me because my story is pretty bad. Um No jail. That's the only thing I don't know how that happened either. Um ok. Well, I will say there's a, there's a

00:38:45.469 - 00:39:03.699

woman and her daughter that live upstairs from me and um she's the kind of mom, I know that, you know, the phrase I'd rather that they did it at home, you know. Well, that's a good idea. But do you know what's happening in the bedrooms? You

00:39:03.709 - 00:39:21.520

know what I mean? So it's kind of dicey and that's what I used to say to parents when I was working, you know, I mean, good luck. But, you know, there's other things that could be going on and, uh, her daughter is just turned 21 and

00:39:21.530 - 00:39:44.280

she is at Berkeley and, um, I worry about the kid, you know, she, she drinks a lot and she's freaked out about her budget because alcohol costs so much and it's her first time having to pay for everything by herself, you know. Um, so, yeah. Uh,

00:39:45.649 - 00:40:12.219

that's kind of, I don't know, you know, I think I would consult with some more profe with some professionals about what to do because I have a kind of a skewed viewpoint in some ways, you know, makes sense. That makes sense. Kinda. Yeah. Ok. Um, what

00:40:12.229 - 00:40:42.280

are your biggest fears in life? Oh my God. Whether back then or now? Yeah. Um, that's an interesting question. Those have changed with, you know, the eras of my life. Um, is it clear? Well, I'm not a, I'm not afraid of this anymore but I don't

00:40:42.290 - 00:41:11.310

wanna drink II, I don't want to hasten my death because that's what would happen to me. Um, I really messed up my body as a young woman. Um, it's not a really good answer. Um, change. Well, I guess it's kind of the same my whole life

00:41:11.320 - 00:41:34.419

now that I think about it. Um, I, I want to be accepted and included in things. Um, and I think some of that has to do with, wow, I'm really telling you guys to the, the bottom line hurt in, in me is I'm not good enough

00:41:34.429 - 00:41:51.550

for anybody to stick around for my father. Number one, you know, I even went to try to find him and you got the door slammed in my face. So that's kind of the root of it, you know. Um, and I tell all my friends, I say,

00:41:51.560 - 00:42:12.830

you know, what, when the earthquake comes, I don't wanna be an afterthought, you know? But chances are good. I, I will be, you know. Um, so it's kind of like hanging out there twisted in the wind, uh, in some ways. Uh, I don't regret living alone.

00:42:13.080 - 00:42:30.770

Uh, in fact, I, if anything else should happen in the romance department, which I seriously doubt at this point. Um, I won't live with anybody again when I'm two. It's like, no, this is my spot, you know, I can move on, you know, got me and

00:42:30.780 - 00:42:57.320

my dog and I'm good. Um, I don't know. No, they never do it. We don't do that. Her name is Cassidy and she is a Maltese shih-tzu toy Poodle. Poodle. Cute. You do smart poodles. You know, I think you cross Poodles with anything. You get a

00:42:57.330 - 00:43:18.270

good dog. Um, they're smart. Yeah. Mhm. My name's, uh, my dog's name is Murphy Murphy. All right. All right. That's a good name. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I gotta think of another Irish name if I ever get another dog, which we don't talk about right now. She's

00:43:18.280 - 00:43:47.449

12. So, you know, she's 12 and she acts like she's four. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Each of you like part of it. Um, when you were younger, what did you want? Or, like, think your career was gonna be, well, you're gonna, you're gonna laugh the first one

00:43:47.459 - 00:44:11.580

I thought I was gonna be a missionary nun and I think that's really common for girls who go to Catholic school. Um, and then I wanted to be a marine biologist because I was in Monterey. Uh, that not. And no. Well, you know, I knew I

00:44:11.590 - 00:44:26.919

wanted to be a psych major from the time I knew I was going to go to college, I think, because I thought, then I would figure everything out and figure what, figure out what my family was odd and, you know, all this other stuff kind of

00:44:26.929 - 00:44:49.209

naive. Um, but I thought I would go in that direction somehow and I guess I have kind of, um, so I never made it to graduate school. This is sort of tangential but I think maybe related. Um, and I kind of regret that now because I

00:44:49.219 - 00:44:58.370

could have gotten some pretty hefty jobs that I had a, a graduate degree. But, um, yeah, so,