00:00:01.090 - 00:00:27.870

Ok. She wants to ask the first question. Oh, yeah, sorry. Do you want to go first? My name is I'm Lola Francis. I'm Tara. Ok. What year are you at in school? I think we're all juniors. You're all junior school? Great. Ok. I, I don't have

00:00:27.879 - 00:00:50.299

the questions. Ok, that's fine. Um What are the most rewarding things about getting older? Um I think the most rewarding things for me. I, I work at the Santa Rosa Junior College. I, I'm the executive director of the Foundation. So I'm there specifically to um because

00:00:50.310 - 00:01:07.569

I'm at the end of my career. So I, I am, you know, um I'm there to give other people the opportunities that I was provided. So um I feel like I have so many um just not only my, my work experience but where I am just

00:01:08.300 - 00:01:26.309

overall financially, I'm just able to really help other people, help students mentor my team. You know, it's all about preparing the next generation for, for their lives like I was prepared for mine. So that's the most rewarding part is to, to be in an environment where

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there's so many opportunities to do that. What do you teach at the junior college? I'm actually the executive director of the foundation. So we raise, we raise the money for the college. So we raise, um, uh, a lot of the money for scholarships. We will award

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$4.5 million in scholarships a year. So a lot of its scholarships but other kinds of support as well for students, especially during COVID, there are a lot of basic needs as well. Interesting. Something about the pilgrimage. Could you talk about? Yeah, that just changed my life

00:02:04.209 - 00:02:19.389

because I um you know, I grew up um uh as you know, as a gay man, I grew up with, with, you know, my own challenges of, you know, being in the closet and coming out and all that. And it never dawned on me until later

00:02:19.399 - 00:02:35.039

in life about my own white privilege and my own, my male white privilege, especially. Um And when I did this pilgrimage, I met a um I went to the University of Washington in Seattle and um the chair of the communications department there, which is, which was

00:02:35.050 - 00:02:48.199

my department. Uh He wasn't there when I was at school, but he started these pilgrimages to the South to retrace the path of the civil rights movement. So I knew that immediately that I want would, that I wanted to go on that pilgrimage. And I, and

00:02:48.210 - 00:03:02.990

I took one of my donors with me because she was also very interested. Um and it was, we literally got on a bus with 40 people. We started in Nashville and we went through Alabama and Mississippi and kind of retraced the path of the civil rights

00:03:03.000 - 00:03:19.529

movement. Um It was the most multi racial intergenerational space I've ever been in uh which was transformative. I mean, I realized like this is what life could be, this is what life could be. This is how we could all live with each other. And, um, and

00:03:19.539 - 00:03:33.149

I certainly learned about a lot more of the history of that time. I mean, we were all taught about Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks, but not a whole lot else. Uh We don't know much about Emmett Till and all the other atrocities of that time.

00:03:33.160 - 00:03:49.309

So, um, but the other important thing is I realize it hasn't stopped, you know, those things that happened in the south really haven't stopped. They've transformed into other things. Um, and it's my, you know, my responsibility to really, to do something about that. So that's why

00:03:49.320 - 00:04:03.809

I'm at the college actually because when I came back, I wanted to be at a more multi racial intergenerational space and the junior college definitely provides that. Wow. I appreciate that. Like, as a, you know, like a lot of older people that I've met don't really

00:04:03.820 - 00:04:24.309

appreciate, you know, like diverse spaces and I like that. You, you do. Yeah, I think a lot, unfortunately, I wish more, especially white gay men would appreciate that. They, they, they of often will equate their struggle to other people's struggles and we all know that those

00:04:24.320 - 00:04:38.329

things are very different. So I think I've, I've, you know, I've embraced what I went through and, and all that, but now I'm, and there's still a lot of, you know, queer youth at the college that are really struggling to, um, because they're, it's hard for

00:04:38.339 - 00:04:59.029

them to find a, a really safe accepting place for them, for them. And um, so yeah, it's, I just, um I wish there, you know, it, I wish there, there's not a lot of white men in this, in this work, unfortunately. Um But um in fact,

00:04:59.040 - 00:05:17.570

I started a group, um uh I pulled together a group of people just to start having conversation about race and, and, and breaking white silence and things like that. So, yeah, I know, like historically, um like the, the gay rights movement and the women's rights movement

00:05:17.579 - 00:05:35.570

and the civil rights movement have kind of all been attached in the pursuit of um like equal rights. Did you notice any of that on your pilgrimage? Like any connection? Um Well, definitely the civil rights movement. Um I mean, II I knew about the civil rights

00:05:35.579 - 00:05:51.140

movement but I never really, again, I was in my own bubble of like, you know, me trying to deal with my being gay and, and where my place in the world and, and coming out and all that. So it wasn't as when I, but I was

00:05:51.149 - 00:06:06.609

one of the founding members of Act Up New York, which was the A I DS coalition to unleash power. So back in the late eighties when our US government was letting young gay men die, um A bunch of us got together and said this is unacceptable

00:06:06.619 - 00:06:23.829

and we need to do something about this. So um it was my first um foray into activism and um I was arrested, I taught civil disobedience. I mean, it was on the streets a lot just being loud and, and, and, and, and letting people know that,

00:06:23.850 - 00:06:36.839

you know, this was not acceptable, the injustice of it. And at the time, I didn't know anybody with A I DS. So it wasn't like I was there because it wasn't personal at that level, but it was personal to me. Uh given just the injustice of

00:06:36.850 - 00:06:50.970

it, what I began to learn during that time is that there were some women who joined that movement who began to teach me about women's experience through time and history. In fact, I went to Smith College one summer and I hung out with a group of

00:06:50.980 - 00:07:06.179

really cool um radical women and I learned a lot from them. Um and I was always aware of the civil rights movement, but I didn't really, I, but it dawned on me later, like how much act up because, you know, one of the the gentlemen, um

00:07:06.429 - 00:07:20.820

that was on the pilgrimage was the first white guy who was part of the student nonviolent coordinating committee was, you know, he was, he was um from Alabama and he was able to show me the, the, the, the, the historical context of everything and he was

00:07:20.829 - 00:07:36.019

very aware of what a up did in late eighties, but how we literally had built on what had been done prior to our movie and now people are building on what we did in the eighties. Um So yeah, it's just, you know, getting a sense of

00:07:36.029 - 00:07:49.760

the full circle of that and how, you know, they, they often say like we, we stand on the shoulders of people before and that's literally what happens. I mean, I, I think about what happened at Stonewall, you know, and all the drag queens, they got furious

00:07:49.769 - 00:08:01.820

and said enough is enough and they finally stood up for their rights. I mean, all, all of that kind of launched the work that's being done today, even the discovery of the vaccine for, for, for COVID that started with the work that we did in act

00:08:01.829 - 00:08:17.359

up when we wanted the testing of drugs to be accelerated to help save people's lives. So it all, it all kind of comes full circle and it all, it all builds on, on, on, on, you know, the next movement. So yeah, that's one of the, you

00:08:17.369 - 00:08:35.739

know, kind of relates back to like getting older, I can see more of that now because I have been on the planet for 63 years. So you start to put all those things together and realizes all the connections, you know. Right. Uh This is, oh um

00:08:35.750 - 00:08:47.260

you talked about like the women that you, you hanged out, you hung out with like at Smith College. Like, would you say that those people were like, would you say is the most influential person for your like real? You currently like, who helped you the most?

00:08:49.080 - 00:09:10.719

Um in terms of, in terms of what the understanding, what or learning, what specifically like your view of like the world, how it is now, like either like social activism or just like mental health or racial equality. Um I think, you know, it's not any one

00:09:11.090 - 00:09:26.969

individual that there's a woman in my life right now who um well, I see, I, I grew up, I, I grew up uh I um I had a single mom who's a waitress. So we were very poor and we, I lived in a housing project when

00:09:26.979 - 00:09:42.469

I was a kid and I was the first in my, in my family to go to college, all of that stuff. Um So I, I know poverty and I know discrimination and all that from that perspective. But what I benefited from as a, as a, as

00:09:42.479 - 00:09:58.369

a poor white kid, I grew up in a very diverse neighborhood of other poor people. Um and um one of my mom's best friend at that time was a black woman and she took care of me. My mom took care of her. She had a boy

00:09:58.380 - 00:10:10.909

and my mom had a boy and that we just kind of, you know, they took care of each other's kid. That's what, that's what, you know, you young parents, especially single parents do. Um But we were a part of that black woman's family and we went

00:10:10.919 - 00:10:26.239

to all of the family reunions of like we were the only white people there. And, but over time I separated from that because II, I, as I, as I moved on, II, I got, I went into wider and wider and wider and wider spaces. So I,

00:10:26.250 - 00:10:39.799

I lost touch with that part of myself. It was always there. Um And I had all these aunts and literally, I had these aunts and uncles at the time. I still, I still have an aunt Lil who just turned 90 years old and I had lost

00:10:39.809 - 00:10:54.940

touch with her all and, and II, I reached out to her literally the day my mother died, I googled this woman and called her and she remembered me from like years ago. But the experience of growing up and being part of a community like that had

00:10:54.950 - 00:11:09.099

a profound impact, I think it's why I'm so such an advocate for, for fairness and equity and justice and, and all that, that I'm trying because I try to think like, where did that, where did that come from? Right. And I think it's just, I grew

00:11:09.109 - 00:11:25.630

up in one of those neighborhoods where, um you know, everybody was literally equal, you know, there, what there is a thing as colorism right there. It's possible. Um But so, and again, it goes back to the, like, you know, when you get older you try to

00:11:25.640 - 00:11:41.669

start to put all that together because you, you realize you're running out of life and you're trying to find that I, I'm a firm believer in um transpersonal psychology. Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You might have studied it in school, but that kind of um we're all

00:11:41.679 - 00:11:54.340

trying to uh to come to, you know, the top of that pyramid where we're looking at our self actualization and what's the meaning of my life be like, you know, why have I been here on this planet and all that kind of stuff? So, so you

00:11:54.349 - 00:12:05.799

start to put all that together because I work with donors a lot in my field and they're all, they're in their eighties and they're all asking the question, like, has my life had any meaning? Like if I'd done anything here, that's made any difference because I

00:12:05.809 - 00:12:25.869

think ultimately everybody wants to, to answer that question before whatever happens to them at the end happens, oh um You mentioned like that you were um like in New York during the A I DS crisis. Like, my mom was also in New York during that time

00:12:25.880 - 00:12:40.000

and I've heard a little bit about it. But could you share a little bit more of your experience, like, specifically as a gay man? Yeah, it was. Um, I left Seattle. I went to Seattle. I'm from southern New York with a town called Binghamton. It's three

00:12:40.010 - 00:12:56.750

hours outside of the city. But I went to Seattle with my first boyfriend because he was in graduate school and I just followed him and as I left Seattle, I graduated in 82 and people were just beginning to talk about, you know, this disease. You know,

00:12:56.760 - 00:13:10.320

people didn't really know what it was yet. And like, I mean, in fact, some people said to me, oh, don't go to New York, you know, so I went to New York because I was a dancer and I went to New York to dance. Um, and,

00:13:10.330 - 00:13:25.130

but New York, this was in like 83 and New York was a, it was, it was like this, you know, the subways were broken down at that time. It was kind of a gritty place. I remember II, I lived in the 34th street. Y for, for

00:13:25.140 - 00:13:38.020

that whole first year because I, that was my, where I lived and for the first several weeks I, I was in my room by D I wouldn't go outside because I mean, I, I've never been to that big of a city uh, and I finally ventured

00:13:38.030 - 00:13:48.299

my way out and then I ended up at Columb, you know, I, I've started hanging out with a lot of kids from Colombia and I ended up going to, and, you know, went there and got my graduate degree eventually. But, um, it was an interesting time

00:13:48.309 - 00:14:04.210

because, um, in fact, it was New York City was one of the fir, the last cities to actually have a gay rights bill passed. We can think like, why, I mean New York City because the city was so fractured. There's so many segments of the gay

00:14:04.219 - 00:14:18.659

community that never talk to each other or work together. You know, they were very just all these and A I DS finally brought all those people together like the night that we had the meeting and everybody came together, there were all kinds of people in that

00:14:18.669 - 00:14:35.239

room. There was still wasn't a lot of racial diversity there. Um But all these components of the community that finally came together to do something about this. Um And I think what it was a result of a, a lot of things grew out of a gay

00:14:35.250 - 00:14:52.080

marriage, grew out of a ID. Si don't know if you've ever thought about that. But the reason we have gay marriage today is because during the A I DS crisis, men were literally prevented from visiting the hospital to see their partner because their parents didn't allow

00:14:52.090 - 00:15:04.219

it because they had, he had no, that person had no legal rights with their partner because they weren't married or anything. And that's when the fir the concept first developed, like, we need to do something about this. We need, we need more rights. So that's where

00:15:04.229 - 00:15:23.229

the, that's where the movement because the right out of A I DS, it shifted to let's go for marriage equality. Um But there was also um a tremendous amount of internalized homophobia at the time because we were all brought up and raised to hate ourselves. Like,

00:15:23.479 - 00:15:41.349

like many other marginalized communities are today. It's sometimes very subtle. But over time, you, it's, it's oppressive, it, it, you know, and I, I literally spent a year in therapy with a licensed clinical social worker. I, I went into therapy thinking it was because I broke,

00:15:41.359 - 00:15:54.559

I broke up with a partner and I was gonna go into therapy and I literally the whole time I was there, I, all I dealt with was my own internalized homophobia. But the combination of that and act a act up and activism. It, that's what, that's

00:15:54.570 - 00:16:10.880

what that was the real power behind a up. We were fighting for our lives and, but we were healing ourselves. We were healing because there's nothing more empowering than standing up for yourself and saying, OK, this enough is enough. Um And so that was, that's, that

00:16:10.890 - 00:16:27.760

was the flip side of, you know, there was a lot of horrible things that happened during that. But um I think f people finally began to learn to really love themselves and take control of their lives and not, not let other people um dictate how we

00:16:27.770 - 00:16:45.320

live our lives. Thank you. Um All right, you talked about dance. I did, I used to dance. What, what did you dance? Like? I was a modern dancer. So I don't, you know, there's lots of modern idioms. So I, I did, I studied Martha Graham for

00:16:45.330 - 00:17:00.489

a year when I was in college, I, I started, when I was 17, I did a lot of community theater when I was in high school. And um II, I want to take dance because I, one of my uh directors wanted me, you know, I was

00:17:00.500 - 00:17:15.219

a little stiff on stage and he said, go, go take a dance class. And so I went and took a dance class and discovered that the dance is really what I wanted to do. That was my real passion. So, um so consequently, when I, when I

00:17:15.229 - 00:17:27.500

um moved out here, my first job was at the San Francisco Ballet. I didn't dance but I raised money for them, but I worked there for eight years. So I, I actually had a career in the arts for 17 years. I worked at the Ballet, the

00:17:27.510 - 00:17:43.869

Asian Art Museum, uh sf moma uh just doing fund rai raised a lot of money for the arts and um and then moved up here and, uh, 2008 we were weekenders for three years, like a lot of people. And then eventually we wanted to be up

00:17:43.880 - 00:17:56.719

here full time. Did you, like, get your degree in, in dance or was it like, like I got my B A in communication. I, I could have, I, I was a couple of classes shy of a degree in dance. But I thought, what are you gonna

00:17:56.729 - 00:18:08.339

do with a degree in dance? Right. I was, I'm pretty practical and so, and I didn't know what I wanted to do when I got to school without like, well, communications will allow me to do a lot of things. I kind of fell into the work

00:18:08.349 - 00:18:23.880

that I'm doing now because I applied for some jobs at Columbia and got this job and I did not, hadn't knew nothing about philanthropy or, and, and, but it's been, it's been the only thing I've ever done my whole life. It's been really a fulfilling, rewarding,

00:18:23.890 - 00:18:47.420

amazing career. Interesting. Where did you meet your spouse? Great question. So, Matt and I met, um, in Grenville, uh, on a kind of a quieter. It was June 10th. Actually, our 23rd anniversary is this June. And we were just, it was a week, you know, like

00:18:47.430 - 00:19:02.800

a lot of people go to Grenville for the weekend and we were just both there and we were sitting at the pool and, uh, we just started talking to each other. And so we met and, um, and then we got married on October 13th, 2013, 13

00:19:02.810 - 00:19:18.550

is Big Matt was born on Friday the 13th. So 13 has always been a favorite of his. And so we always, so, I mean, if there had been a 13 month, 13th month, we would have been married 1313, 13, but it was October. So, um, but

00:19:18.560 - 00:19:36.250

yeah, when, when gay marriage, when Gavin Newsom initially opened up marriage in the city back in 2018, 2018, no, before the 2000. But you was, uh, I'm not sure. But anyway, and a lot of people ran down the city hall to do that and we just,

00:19:36.260 - 00:19:49.359

we just weren't ready at the time and then we kind of regretted it. And then we were just waiting for the Supreme Court. Um, when they had the Supreme Court voted that summer and then by October, we were, we were getting, we were getting married and,

00:19:50.300 - 00:20:03.890

um, and, uh, we did a, we had a great thing. We invited people to our wedding who had been advocates for gay marriage, um, who had literally met with the president to advocate for gay marriage and things like that. We really wanted everybody there who had

00:20:03.900 - 00:20:25.310

made our day possible. We wanted to celebrate them. So it's a beautiful day in Hillburg in October before we had fires. Yeah. Um Was there anyone in your life that you were really happy? You came out to or someone you like regretted coming out to not

00:20:25.319 - 00:20:40.469

regret it. I, I, fortunately Seattle was great for me because I, I knew I, I knew this is, uh, uh, the, well, I don't know if this is the case nowadays, but a lot of gay people of my generation, we, we wanted to run away from,

00:20:40.479 - 00:20:51.489

we wanted to get away from home. It was just not healthy for us. Um, sometimes we were kicked out by our fi I for, I didn't ever have that situation. I came out to my mom, right, as I was leaving for college and of course, she

00:20:51.500 - 00:21:04.020

always knew and all that stuff and, um, it was a much harder when I had to go back to her and tell her that I tested positive for HIV. That was, that was the, that was my, and my sister was there too. That, that was harder

00:21:04.030 - 00:21:20.859

than coming out to tell her that I had. Um, and so, um, but I think that when I went to Seattle, it was just, um, a, a great, it was a big campus and lot, but it was a progressive place and I just felt like it

00:21:20.869 - 00:21:35.910

was a good place for me to gradually come out and become comfortable, find people that I was comfortable with. And I had a counselor at the college. She was just phenomenal and she made the world of difference for me. She just, you know, in fact she

00:21:35.920 - 00:21:52.010

died of breast cancer a few years after I graduated. And when I die, a third of my estate is going to the college to honor her and what she did for me and other students at that time. So, so there, that's what's great about college. You're

00:21:52.020 - 00:22:07.439

not there yet. But there's so many people like that that are just, they're there to transform people's lives. Right? And, and we always say this at the junior college, it only takes one person. Um It could be anybody, it could be a custodian or anybody who

00:22:07.449 - 00:22:23.930

just shows that level of interest in you and sees you. Um And you feel like you can really be yourself around that. I mean, and Kathy did that for me, she was the first person that made me feel like I could just be 100% myself around

00:22:23.939 - 00:22:34.989

her. I didn't have to put a little bit of it that aside over there or hide this over there. I could just be who I was with her and that was huge because it helped me start being that way with other people. And when I didn't

00:22:35.000 - 00:22:49.319

get that from people, I wouldn't hang out with those people anymore. Um So because I'm from a generation where you, it was a very gradual process coming out you a little and you told that person, but then you had this double life like and it got

00:22:49.329 - 00:23:01.510

confusing because you were at times you were like, oh my does that person I can't, can't remember who you told and who you've come out to and who you. And then, you know, a lot of people had, like, my first boyfriend had a girlfriend in college

00:23:02.510 - 00:23:15.290

when I met him, it was his cover. He literally would go out with his friends and his girlfriend on the weekends and then he would meet me at the gay bar at midnight and we would spend the rest of the week, the weekend together and nobody

00:23:15.300 - 00:23:31.520

ever knew about it. And the generation before me had a really, like, they all got married and had kids and they really, you know, and then, you know, at least we were kind of in that we could kind of be half ourselves all of a sudden.

00:23:33.910 - 00:23:50.930

And now today I hope people are just being themselves and like using whatever pronouns they want and, you know, and just being in, you know, and I think there's a little more space for that, at least with, from the younger generation anyway. But, you know, can't

00:23:50.939 - 00:24:09.479

wait for some of the older folks to die off. But you mentioned you have a sister and me and the lot have a sister too. Like, do you have any childhood stories, funny ones, childhood stories related to what your sister, uh, you know, I, I'm so

00:24:09.489 - 00:24:26.479

my, I had a pretty difficult childhood so my mom, um, I have other brothers and sisters, but not, I was really an only child with my dad. And, uh, mine and my dad left when I was four and then my mom had other kids when I

00:24:26.489 - 00:24:37.400

was 10. Um, and so I kind of helped raise them and everything. I, I kind of, you know, laugh with my sis, you know, like I felt like I was more like the uncle than my brother. I didn't feel like we were really brothers and sisters

00:24:38.140 - 00:24:51.050

and we still don't because, you know, I left and we have totally, completely different lives. The one thing I'll say about going to college though because I went, I was the first to go to college. But then my two brother, I have two brothers that dropped

00:24:51.060 - 00:25:10.109

out of school and my sister did not. My sister followed my path and went to school and to see the inc the, the vast differences in our lives like how my two brothers constantly struggle. My brothers was incarcerated for a period of time. Um And then

00:25:10.119 - 00:25:25.410

my sister and I, my sister is finally getting, you know, some traction as well, but you just like that education and that just makes a huge difference in people's lives, um health care and all the things that lead to just, you know, so you don't struggle

00:25:25.420 - 00:25:39.369

through your life. And my brother's just str uh you know, it's paycheck to paycheck and all that stuff that's really hard to wa you know, in your own family to watch that. Um, but my sister and I were close when we were younger because I always

00:25:39.380 - 00:25:52.000

wanted a sister. I was so excited when my mom told me she was pregnant and she had twins and then my sister was like an incredible athlete. She was a great cross country runner and I followed her, I went to all of her meets and just

00:25:52.010 - 00:26:09.880

everything. Um, but it's, it's still when you go that far, far away from your family and transform your life and, and they don't, there's just, uh there's something between you that you can never remove. And I go back and I feel out of place. I feel

00:26:09.890 - 00:26:24.060

guilty that I did what I did and I left them behind and, you know, all that stuff. So we'll never be close and we just kind of acknowledge that and we're part of each other's lives, but it's just, it's kind of just the, you know, the

00:26:24.069 - 00:26:39.250

way it, the way it is. Um, fortunately they loved me and always accepted me. They say they accepted me, I think at times they really wanted me to marry a woman. You know, you get that kind of like, oh yeah, you're totally like, but I, I,

00:26:39.260 - 00:26:56.839

you know, there's that and um, unfortunately Matt's family, their true colors came out when Trump was elected and we realized how aligning they were with, with that, those, that, those politics. And uh so we kind of cut off ties from some of his family members because

00:26:56.849 - 00:27:12.939

we just can't, we're at a point in a life where if you're gonna support things and support candidates or out to really literally eliminate me, I can't, you can't be a part of my life. I mean, we used to try to like, ok, we'll go to

00:27:12.949 - 00:27:28.280

Thanksgiving dinner, we'll try to have those conversations. But now it's like, you know, what If you can't, if you say you love me, show me, you love me. And it's kind of that sort of thing. So it's unfortunate. I think that a lot of families these

00:27:28.290 - 00:27:45.900

days are, um, just not what they used to be, give advice for like people who are trying to distance themselves from their families, I guess, like, well, you can do it. I, I like literally iii I couldn't have gone any further other than to go to

00:27:45.910 - 00:27:59.400

Alaska. I mean, I went from New York to Seattle. Um, and so I couldn't, I couldn't go home when I had a problem and I literally couldn't, I didn't have the money to, I took a greyhound bus, took me three days to get there because I

00:27:59.410 - 00:28:11.750

didn't have the money to fly. But I had to figure it out and I had a part I, my boyfriend at the time and he was really supportive, but then we broke up and I literally, when we broke up between my junior and senior year I

00:28:11.760 - 00:28:24.959

was gonna go, you know, I was, I was gonna transfer back home and all that stuff. And Kathy, my counselor is the one that convinced me to stay. Thank goodness. Um, but I, there are moments when I just, you know, I had to figure it out,

00:28:24.969 - 00:28:37.719

you know, and I, I real, I realized how resilient I was and all that. So, um and there are a lot of un unhealthy things because I'm from a domestic violence space at home and things like that, that I just had, you know, I just had

00:28:37.729 - 00:29:01.130

to get away from it. Um And sometimes just physically separating yourself from it. Um But there are consequences to that as well. Obviously, as a society, we have become more accepting as you were kind of mentioning just like, yeah, do you think there's any area where

00:29:01.140 - 00:29:20.689

um like as a society as a culture, we can still grow? I think with transgender people, which is something that ii, I mean, I still struggle with it myself. Um Just because I don't, you know, it's just I'm from a generation. Um And that's another reason

00:29:20.699 - 00:29:38.250

I'm at the college because I'm surrounded by that all the time and I, I just, I, I wanna celebrate it and um but we in, in general, we're at a place where I think what we're trying to do and it's hard for, for white people in

00:29:38.260 - 00:29:51.229

particular to rescind. Why? Like, why, why do we put an X on things now, like why do we have to do that? It's like, it's not about we're trying to include other people. It's about, you know, because I may not understand why that X is that

00:29:51.239 - 00:30:06.500

you don't have to try to understand it, just accept that it's there to include somebody else. Um So I don't have to understand, you know, all the alphabets of the le, the letters of the alphabet. There's now AAA two si guess which is for two spirit.

00:30:06.510 - 00:30:18.219

And I love that as well because there are a lot of native students that are at the, at our college. Um But I think I'm, I'm just trying to and trying to help other people. I mean, I literally, we had a, had a meeting recently with

00:30:18.229 - 00:30:32.150

an older white woman and some other people and we changed some of the forms of the foundation when we're recruiting new board members. We wanted to collect more information about them that isn't the standard like male or female. What, how old you are? Like? It's more

00:30:32.160 - 00:30:45.939

generational and, and what your interests are and, and, and how do you self identify and all that stuff? And this woman said this is offensive. I don't know like, why do we have to do this? And I looked right at her and I said, we're not

00:30:45.949 - 00:30:59.189

doing this for you. We're doing this for, and there was a young black woman. I said, we're doing it for her. So don't try to understand it or question it or, or, or, or, or, or discredit it. Right. Just accept it that we're doing it to

00:30:59.199 - 00:31:16.479

include other people. So, um I think that's where we have a lot more work to do there because a lot of people think everything's fine and we don't need to change anything. Um Yeah, if you keep looking at it through your, your, your glasses. But um,

00:31:16.939 - 00:31:31.949

so I think transgender people in particular, um and people just, you know, I know people who say, you know, they just like, oh, I can't use the pronouns. They're so confusing and, well, it's like, it's like people that don't want to make an effort to try

00:31:31.959 - 00:31:47.119

to pronounce um other people's names that aren't white names, right? So let's make the effort we got to get, you know, I know we don't have the that we haven't been trained or we don't, we don't have the muscles to do it, but we can develop

00:31:47.130 - 00:32:07.069

them. So I hope that more people will do that if you could make like a bucket list, bucket list of things you want to do. Like experiences is what would be on it, like in the future. My bucket list, you know, it's interesting. Um I, I

00:32:07.079 - 00:32:21.109

thought, I thought about, I don't have a lot of things on my bucket list because I feel like I've done a lot of them. I mean, I'm literally a person who grew up and had, I, I never imagine like I, I have these moments still. We

00:32:21.119 - 00:32:38.270

have a new president starting at the college on July 1st. Her name is Doctor Angelica Garcia. She's the will be the first woman to run the college. She's Latinx and she has a wife and two kids. And when we had the public forum where they, they

00:32:38.280 - 00:32:52.739

had to stamp on the stage and be interviewed. Well, kind of talk to the, to talk to the, the community. I went to all three of the candidates and she just naturally brought up her wife in a conversation and my, I, I started to cry because

00:32:52.750 - 00:33:05.410

I still have those moments as a 60 year old male, like I never imagined I would be sitting here right now and there's a woman up there talking about her, you know, I, you know, I never imagined I'd be married either at this point in my

00:33:05.420 - 00:33:19.349

life. But so I'm just saying it because I feel like, you know, I've accomplished so much more than I ever imagined I ever do. I never thought I'd live longer than I thought I'd be dead by now. So I haven't put a, you know, so I've

00:33:19.359 - 00:33:34.329

just been kind of more comfortable with what I have and what I've achieved and not like, um but I'm looking forward to retirement so I can just create space for what some other things that might be. Out there, I'm going to Africa in August, which I've

00:33:34.339 - 00:33:47.359

always wanted to do. Um, so I know there are still things out there but I'm, I'm so, I'm, so that's why I've always been a nonprofit. So I've been so mission focused my whole life. Like, I, I could not work for a company and be profit

00:33:47.369 - 00:34:03.819

driven like money. It's not my driver. Um, so I've been so blessed and grateful to have the jobs that I've had and been and I know a lot of that's because of my white male privilege. Um But, um yeah, I just feel like I, I've really

00:34:03.829 - 00:34:22.419

done a lot of those things and uh I don't have a lot of other than trying to get some of the, some of the flowers in my garden to grow better. What are your plans for your trip in Africa? It's a great, you know, I, I'm,

00:34:22.429 - 00:34:34.510

I'm also one of those people. I don't like to just go on trips. I'm kind of weird, but I like to go on trips to have a little bit of purpose to them. And fortunately, we're going to visit this nonprofit and in Kenya, that was actually

00:34:34.520 - 00:34:47.658

started by a student that went to the junior college. Um He came over from Kenya when he was in high school and went to Montgomery and then he went to the JC and then transferred to UCL A. But he started a nonprofit called Village Hope Corp.

00:34:47.819 - 00:34:59.769

And I know some of the donors and board members of that because a lot of them live in Hills Burg now and they take trips there, you know, every couple of years. So I, I've always wanted to go with them and they, they invited me to,

00:34:59.779 - 00:35:14.939

to go with them this time. And so we're gonna spend a week in the village with, just with, with the, the nonprofit and visiting there. They do a lot of micro loaning. They've done a lot around the, the, the obviously COVID and things like that and,

00:35:15.159 - 00:35:27.080

and then we're going to go on an actual safari. I've always wanted to go on a safari. I don't know why. I mean, it, I don't know, it's fun to see animals in the zoo if you think animals should be in the zoo. But there's something

00:35:27.090 - 00:35:40.919

about seeing animals in their natural habitat and I hope they don't eat each other while I'm there though. I wouldn't, I'm not gonna be able to tolerate that very much. But um yeah, so I'm just looking forward to it, but it's, I, I'm having panic attacks

00:35:40.929 - 00:35:59.179

about leave being away from work for two weeks because I don't think I've ever done that before. Well, it'll be good getting some distance and yeah, I remember the first, the first trip I took, I think I was 25 when I fir I went to Paris

00:35:59.189 - 00:36:11.350

with, with San Francisco Ballet when I was with them. And I remember sitting, we were having like, dinner at midnight or something. It's like, uh, people eat really late here. And I remember sitting there and had that moment where I thought, like, why did I ever,

00:36:11.360 - 00:36:30.229

why did I wait so long to do this? Like, take a trip? Because it does just open up your, your world and your perspective about how, just seeing how other people live appreciating, um, not centering yourself all the time. And, uh, in fact, I have a

00:36:30.239 - 00:36:43.169

great book I'm gonna read on the way. It's, it's something a friend of mine got this book about traveling, ho how to travel as a white person and how to, how to be in these spaces where you're gonna be, I'm gonna be the minority like I'm

00:36:43.179 - 00:36:58.909

gonna be in Africa and how to be there and show up and, and act in a way. It's a little different than what I'm, how I'm used to showing up in, you know, uh, my daily life. Uh, so I'm looking forward to reading and learning. It's

00:36:58.919 - 00:37:15.399

for people that do a lot of traveling. And, um, it's just, I, I'm so grateful that there's just, um, a level of consciousness. Now, I don't know. Maybe it's because we live in California. I don't know. But, uh, just a level of conscious now, now that,

00:37:15.590 - 00:37:34.260

that, um, that I think is good for, I know a lot of people hate it and I think it's dumb and stupid, but I think it's the way that we should all be living. Do you wanna go anywhere else? Maybe? No. You know, it's, you know,

00:37:34.270 - 00:37:59.159

it's interesting. Um I haven't really felt safe traveling is a gay male. We, I had a bad incident in Hawaii with a previous partner. Um And it, it literally, it, it led to, I had a, a, like a really serious anxiety attack during that period and,

00:37:59.169 - 00:38:15.889

and I still have some, you know, moments, I have anxiety around things, but it brought up a lot of like we are under a, you know, like literally I give so I'm going to Africa, right? So I have to fly and I'm, I'm flying by myself

00:38:15.899 - 00:38:30.120

because I'm not, Matt's not going with me. And so I have to fly, you can't fly directly to Nairobi, you have to. And so the two people I know who are going, there's several people going through Dubai, they're flying to Dubai and then transferring, but I'm

00:38:30.129 - 00:38:51.639

like, OK, I'm a single gay male. I'm not traveling and stopping in an Arabian country by myself. So I'm taking Lufthansa to Frankfurt and I'll transfer from Frankfurt to Nairobi. So those are the things over time. You just in instincts that you like, you know, because

00:38:51.649 - 00:39:08.020

we are literally under attack everywhere in the world right now. And it's sad that you can't just be free to go like wherever and, but there's certain countries and, and, and my, and my husband Matt is even more political than I am. He won't, like, he

00:39:08.030 - 00:39:21.149

won't go to Florida. You're never gonna get him to go to Florida or to any of the states that, you know, it's like, why give them our money and like, we have friends going to Disney. You know, I, I know, I love Disney. Disney World but

00:39:21.159 - 00:39:35.919

still, it's like, oh my God, why are you going to Florida right now? So, um yeah, we kind of grew up in that generation of like boycotting the things that the brands that don't support us and that kind of thing. So, but travel is tricky. I've

00:39:35.929 - 00:39:57.330

just, I just feel like, especially as you get older, when you get older, you get more vulnerable again because you're older and, and it's just, unfortunately, it's always, it's always part of that processor that we have when we're thinking about these things. How has your life

00:39:57.340 - 00:40:14.750

changed when you were diagnosed with HIV? That's a great question, you know. Um I just, I was doing a lot of because I was in, you know, there was a time when I was in therapy I was doing a lot of, a lot of, um self

00:40:14.760 - 00:40:29.280

healing stuff at the time, you know, meditating and I just, uh which is, you know, a lot of people were doing a lot of things back then. Um, and when I was diagnosed and I was pretty sure I probably was because one of my partners had,

00:40:29.290 - 00:40:43.629

let me know that he tested positive. And um I was at Colombia, I was working in Colombia. I went to the Columbia Health Center to get tested. And, um, in the minute and when I went in and got the results, I just had one of those

00:40:43.639 - 00:41:00.879

moments where I was just, it's like I'm not, I'm not gonna die from this and it was part of that was my act up activism, you know, just like this isn't gonna get me kind of thing. And, and I'm not, I've never really been a religious

00:41:00.889 - 00:41:19.790

person because I also feel like we've been pros persecuted so much by, by religion, unfortunately, but I've always been very spiritual. So I have these conversations, I, I say conversations with God but, and I remember it's like meditating for me, you know, and um and I

00:41:19.800 - 00:41:38.750

remember having these conversations about not dying from, from A I DS and now we ma Matt and I both and III I have never been on medication. I'm just one of those blessed people there. They say that there's a small percentage of us that were called

00:41:38.760 - 00:41:56.399

elite controllers. Like we've controlled the, the disease and we've never like, I still go to the doctors and I sometimes had to remind them like, no, and they're like, oh, I keep forgetting your, you know, you're, you're one of those, you know, really elite controllers and

00:41:56.580 - 00:42:13.419

Matt was not very for, he's been on medication since, um, they, they basically, the, the eighties when the, when the, you know, the cocktail first came out, um, a ZT was killing people, which is what his first partner, Robert Matt and I are together because when

00:42:13.429 - 00:42:30.479

I met him, um, and he told me about Robert and Todd, Robert had died and I, I wanted him to talk about Robert and he was stunned because he thought he said none of my previous boyfriends ever. They never wanted to talk about Robert. Like no

00:42:30.489 - 00:42:44.239

one wants to talk about your partner who died of A I DS, right? It's like, but you do. And that was my act up. It was the act of, you know, because I had come from a space where like we were honoring all of that stuff.

00:42:44.810 - 00:43:00.600

So I wanted to. So, and the stories he told me about Robert and how the brutality of it and how he supported him and he was there for him. And, and I remember looking at him one day and I just said, I don't know where our

00:43:00.610 - 00:43:17.389

relationship is going. But I know I want someone like you in my life, someone who did what you did for Robert is someone that I want as part of my life and, and, and that was true, true, truthful. So, um, yeah, so it was, you know,

00:43:17.399 - 00:43:30.129

it was an interesting time and I, we laugh now and say like we're probably gonna die of diabetes or like we're not gonna di diabetes at this point, it's gonna be something else. But, but you wonder over time like, you know, is it gonna shorten your

00:43:30.139 - 00:43:39.860

life and things? Like, I mean, he's been on medication for so long, but one night I have to tell you this story when I met and I tell was telling about a up and what I did for act up and how we were trying to get

00:43:39.870 - 00:43:56.439

drugs approved quicker and get them to people to save their lives. And, and I knew the work that we were doing was saving li like just, you know, hypothetically, we just knew that somebody's lives were being saved because of it. And I told him at the

00:43:56.449 - 00:44:11.510

story and we were sitting there one night, he looked right at me. He said, Jay, he said, I wanna thank you. And I said, why? He said you saved my life. Um because he was able, he was able to hold on long enough to get those

00:44:11.520 - 00:44:26.330

first. They called them cocktails because they were a combination of drugs. He got one of those and survived. Robert didn't last that long. He died. So it was the first time of my life when that the whole experience where someone was sitting in front of me

00:44:26.340 - 00:44:41.179

that said, you saved my life. And it was just kind of a, a full circle and, and it was just an acknowledgment of like, wow. II, I imagine a lot of people are in that situation where they, you know, they got, they got the drug. That's

00:44:41.189 - 00:44:55.840

why I'm such a firm believer in people. I know it's experimental and there's lots of risks. But if people are dying you should just give them something that could work for them. Um, it's, it's really the most humane thing to do. So, anyway. So, yeah, that's

00:44:55.850 - 00:44:59.699

kind of again your original question about, you know.