Frank DeGeorge

day is Thursday October 29, 1981. And I'm sitting in the kitchen of the home of frank and Louise de George and I have to, my left frank did George a longtime friend frank. Can you tell me a little bit about your experiences in the wine industry?

Can you tell me something about your family, something about your father And uh, when he came over from the old country where he came from and anything of interest that took place upon his journey to California? Well, my father came over from the old country early

in the early 1890s and he settled in Martial marin County and it was in the butcher business. No, there for a good many years. And then he moved from there. He went into Paloma and from Parliament moved to Cloverdale in 1904. What part of the old

country were you referring to frank? He came from Locarno Switzerland and my mother was from kenya Switzerland. And that was what year did you say In the early 1890s. Uh, How large your family did you have? How many Children did you have? How many brothers and

sisters do you have frank? And what other age groups? Where do you fit into your family? I had two brothers And they passed away several years. One in 58, 1 in 73. They were brought up about 70 years of age at that time When your dad

moved into Cloverdale in 1900 for where did he locate? What was the size of his land? And what did he grow on the land or what did he find on the land? And what did he do? And when did he start his winery? Well, when we

moved to, to go over there, we moved on a ranch about seven miles southeast of Florida, right opposite, asked There was a 250 acre ranch. You had five acres of vineyards and there was nothing else. And there wasn't even a house on except the chicken house

and we remodeled and lived in that for a while. Then we finally built a house. Did you build a house on that ranch or did you build a house on the ranch up on the hillside? They built the house on that ranch on the ranch up

there, 250 acre ranch there. When did you leave that ranch to go up on the hill? And where was the winery located? The winery was located right near the house there, right on the vineyard. That was on the lower ranch, The ranch across the river from

master. Is that right, right. That's the only ranch we had. Is that one ranch there? And it was formerly, we bought the ranch from a party by the name of Cameron, but prior to that it was owned by a birds of uncle of the birches that

were up there and the ranch was then divided and we had half of it. What happened? Because we're on the other half? And did you increase the size of the vineyard at any time from the five acres to which you made reference? Oh yes. We raised

it to about 35 acres. Then we also had five acres of rooms up there. Have you any ideas to what variety of grape your family grew? Mostly Carrageenan and Zinfandel. There will be only two types that we had at the time. When was the wine reconstructed?

What year? Do you have any ideas to the time that that was constructed in 1906? And I bought the coup bridge from another wine rating on the valley here by the name of exertion. Do you know anything about desertions, where they were located the size of

their ranch? And what if any grapes that they grew or when they started their winery? I don't know. I've never seen any grapes around that neighborhood there where they had their winery where they must have bought it or what they did, but they didn't stay in

the wine business very long cause in 19 6 they sold the coopers to my father and that's where he started the winery. They had small redwood tanks, about six of them and about 1000 gallons each. And he also had about 3 500 gallon redwood tanks. And

those are the things that was brought up to the ranch. He set up the line of course in those days, you didn't have all the regulations we had now didn't get no permits, you didn't have to pay any tax, you didn't have to get no license

or anything else. It was wide open. There was no problem frank from what you told me prior to lunch that the uh, what was the name? Gracia winery, joseph? How do you spell joseph? Just guess it? You are the er Zorc er that was the social

when Eazy E Z U R Z. Ers, OSHA winery from what you told me, you had mentioned that it was down where the current uh, State department scales are, that would be down close to the french colony of your carrier. That's right, That's right. The kelly

road between the kelly road and scales down there. Did you say that there was a remnant of a building there there? Yes, I think there still is a remnant there now. Some future date frank. I hope that we can go down or drive around the town

and see if we can some of these old buildings or see what is on the site where some of these wineries existed. Uh, where did your dad sell the wine that he produced? Well, he said that mostly in san Francisco, they had dealers down there and

then we wind business and They bottle it and sell it and he shifted down there in oak barrels or punches and those times you had what he called the punching with the held about 150 gallons each And he also set up some wine to Alaska in

the 50 Gallon oak barrels That's in, in, in, in, in the early years years and 19. But when I think then they did they did that. What source of energy did you have your father have at the winery? There was no, we had no electricity. We

used a steam engine, a steam boiler to sterilize and voice thanks with and uh chores around there. And how was the uh boiler? How did you generate the steam? What did we use for fuel? Here's wood. First we had to switch to make some good and

then we put it in the boil and make the voice of steam that way. And finally, then the crusher and crushing the grapes for the wine. It was muscled in your right arm turning the crushers. And finally we rigged rigged up of a ford motor. And

then we had a stammer and crusher and run it by power then, but didn't for a long time, it was muscles that crushed the grapes. What type of oppressed did you have to get the most yield from your grape? Do you remember? Yes, the press was

The in genuine ingenious of the people there. We didn't have the money to buy a large presses and things like that. So the press was made to have the regular square box to put the promise in and the platform. And then they used uh pine or

fir log about 40ft long, About 2 1/2 ft in diameter. And you anchored, went into that log into the ground or up against one on the ranch was hooked. A hook treated, Held it down, then you're hoisted it up with block and tackle that one at

the 40 at the other end, blocked it up and then let it down and then let's wait, continues to pressure. Didn't have to stay there and fool with it anymore. It just didn't work without, it's much attention except to pick the wine away as it came

out. Were there any other pieces of machinery such as uh pumps? Did you have a hand pump or how did you transfer your wine from one tank to another when you're done? You're racking, We had a hand pump yet ball by hand, pull the pump back

and double them on the pump. And they pulled up and we all drove by hand. There was no machinery in those days. Did you happen to have a filter or you just leave your wine age through natural processes? Just natural processes, no special things, attitude or

anything else? Just a natural process. That's where you got the real natural thing. Uh your dad operated up until prohibition or what was the length of time of operation? As I understand you operated up until 1919 and then the winery went down during prohibition and started

a new in 1933 or 34 they were doing prohibition. We had the thanks of wine and we held those over for quite a number of years and finally we disposed that wine. I don't remember just how it was that was done but they send it out

to some firm that was putting it up for medicine or purposes. Finally got away with that. Uh huh. And so that was then after prohibition we revitalize the winery again Then what year did you really revitalized the first year upon the repeal of prohibition? Which was

december the 6th, 1933 Or was it after that period of time? Right after the first year it was really revitalized. So you'd say 1930 for you revitalized. Uh And then We kept it going until 1942 and then I went to work with Italians Wisconsin that left

the ranch, I got married and they came and lived in town and so my dad quit the winery. So the last Uh winery was 1942. And when did your dad pass away, 1947 frank? Can you tell me about other wineries in the area? Let's take first

those of italian origin. Like the jena Keeney brothers. What do you know about the Jenna Keeney family john mckinney brothers winery that was started by Shirley Black And then in 1919 the Jonah Keeney Brothers brought that place out and they continued at the winery. What do

you know about Shirley Black? Which one of the black I know of Hollis Black. How was Sherry, Shirley Black related if any to Hollis Black. And where was his ranch and winery? I think that there were cousins rick, rick. All right, because your heart is black.

His dad was lewis black and Shirley Black was uh another blank. But I just don't think George black or several blacks there and I didn't get them quite separated. Do you know anything more about the Jenna Keeney wondered how large was it? And if they started

in 1919, what happened to them during prohibition? Surely black winery was started in quite a few years before that Jonah Kini bought it out then and then they kept it up and talk. Oh quite some time because in mm after prohibition, the area closed down during

prohibition and they started up again. Have you any ideas how long they operated caesar still alive, isn't he? See the jena kini. Yes, he's a john McCain is still alive. He's the only one brother lived that left carl and uh but oh uh dad, that's the

way john Kenney. Where where was their holdings uh in uh was on River Road, wasn't it? In Cloverdale kid, you'd more or less described their ranch. And have you any ideas to the size of their ranch. Their answer was on the end of the river road

just before you go up to the Crocker Ranch, which is just beyond them. And uh they had about 150 acres all planted and vineyard and prunes and things like that. That's quite a big Spread there and there we only had a competitive up I would say

30 or 40,000 gallons who owns that property today frank. Do you know, I don't know the name. Uh and I know but I, I don't know what the name is, not familiar, I'm not familiar with that. I don't know if I see him but whose name

is there anything else you know about the Jenna kean ease? Well they're retired now and caesar lives here in town and that's all and lane Jonah Kenny that was ahead Jonathan and his wife, she lives here in town and and Janet kini and the original thing

I just mentioned it. His wife lives in Ukiah so much for the Jenna kean ease. Let's go to an italian another italian name. Andrea bot. Do you have any recollection of Andrea Gatti and the winery that he had here at the south end of Cloverdale. Andrea

Gatti had a little winery down here. The building is still standing there and it's on the property now that's thrown by the church and his name was Andrea guilty but uh several years after they had started the winery, he changed his name to guilty, what was

his name before he changed it to go to Andrea Gregory Was that before prohibition amendment that was before 1919? That was it was after prohibition that he changed his name, he changed it in 30 for is that it did did that winery operate before prohibition? He

operated before prohibition. And I think it ran I don't think it ran very much after prohibition. Yeah, I realized that he ran for a year or two uh frank. Do you know any of the Zanzi? Is that we're in the wine business before prohibition? Well, I

know Antonio Vanzi. He had a winery done near Chianti and you operated that for quite some time and he operated before prohibition and a year or two after prohibition. Is that right? He operated before and and after also. And I think when they sold the property

that they also operated a little while, but not very long. That was at Sandy's corner, south of Asti. Right, that's right. Uh Do you know anything about the baiocchi family? Where they had a winery? Yes, they had a winery and it was set back at the

foothills. I'd be on the back of this against your property? They had a winery back there. Do you have any ideas to time. Would you say that it was 1910 before, after 1910? Would you have some recollection as to what period in time that they had

the winery? Well, I can't recall latches, how long they had that winery there? But I know they didn't have the wind because I've been in it but the years, I cannot say a little early in the morning. You had mentioned something about the Cloverdale Wine company.

Would you mind telling me a little bit about the Cloverdale Wine company who ran it? And the like? Well I don't know who ran the Whitening. I know that Claudia Wine Company was down here just a block from here near the railroad tracks and it ran

for a while and then the Italians Wisconsin, he took it over and they didn't run it very long and they just took the cooper job and then they used it for a warehouse. You also mentioned a hall being in the wine business. I remember hall that

was in the feed business. Would you mind telling me of your experiences with the hall or something about the hall that was in the wine business? George hall that was in the wine business and I don't know what his relationship was with the hall that was

in the feed business here and he was in there and kept the wine going business going until he passed away when he passed away. His brother in law Lewis Black took over the winery and it's still in the black family now and then Harlan's Black was

it was the son of Lewis Black and he operated for quite a number of years and of course he had an accident and got killed on her way to texas to visit his sudden and him and his wife got killed in that accident. Was that the

winery on River Road east of the town of Cloverdale? That's right. It's on the river road and it's about three miles out of Cloverdale. Are you acquainted with the sink operation? Do you know of tae sink? What was it? His uncle walter? What was the relation

between walter and today? Do you know? I don't know what the relation is, but I know walter's incorporated that wine for quite a number of years and they did operated maybe for a little while after he passed away. But it didn't operate very long. We had

also mentioned uh rose a lot. Would you mind telling me what you know of rose a lot that had a winery on 1 28 Lot either had a winery up in 128, about eight miles out of town here was On 128 and just above the generally

ranch. And it was way up on the top of the hill there and they had a small winery up there and they operated that for a number of years. But I don't know just when to give it up. That was she operated before prohibition. I do

know she operated after prohibition. I had visited the place. I have a vague recollection. I know that she was a very kind woman and uh being that she lived up on the hill. That was always venison. I remember when we wanted to look for a government

inspector would always call rosa to find out who was visiting her because they all went up for polenta mushrooms in venison. Yeah that's that's I can understand because I've had some of that up there myself. How about the name uh Mazzini, Do you have any recollection

of the Mancini's that were supposedly out opposite somewhere opposite Rose a lot. Yeah. Mazzini was on the same road but they're on the opposite side of the road, on the west side of the road while the machine is where the bodies were on the east side

of the road. And Mazie and Mazzini is the take grapes on the outside. They have quite a few acres of their own. But they also brought copes in from the outside. Could you describe the Mazzini ranch? I ask you that because I understand that is on

a flat portion or on a plateau uh in sort of a high elevation. Oh it's there's not much level land on me because I worked on that vineyard and I know and pretty steep in places. I don't sometimes I wonder how they worked it up there.

There's a very small part that's on a flat land. Uh there's the name Rato ring a bell with you frank. Yes steve rocco had a winery up on pine mountain area pi and he used to have dark grapes and then white grapes also. And he used

to make a wonderful white wine up there that we enjoyed? And it was really good and why that has not touched up with different chemicals or anything else? That was the real thing that came out of the vineyard to the ground and natural settlement. No filtration

outside of that. And it was really a beautiful address of wine. I want to thank you for confirming my feelings frank. I can recall that white wine. I know that he didn't make very much of it. It could have been 1000 or 12, maybe 1500 gowns.

And I don't remember if it was either from the ali optical grape or from a muscat because it was a very, very strong flavored wine. It had the muscat slayer. So it must have been the muscatel type of apes. Yes, it could, it could have been

muscatel indeed. And you are the first individual that has made mention of steve growing white grape up there. Right, well, I used to go up there with my folks and when my dad, we used to grab their vineyards up there. So I know the vineyards that

they had up there and that's quite a, it's up on the hillside is not done on the level of flatlands, but it produced good grapes. Can you put a time element was when you went up to graft, was it before prohibition? How old were you? And

maybe could you say that it was before or after 1910 that you've done this work now you mentioned uh two ranches on which you worked. Did you work on any other vineyards in the area? Oh yes, I worked on drafting vines. I worked on the ranch

over here going I think certainly Blackwood performing of it at that time where Mclaughlin's place and we've grafted by thousands of lines out there. One somewhere on the Wrong Springs Ranch uh on that ranch. You're going out there, who owned it at the time? I don't

know if it was McLaughlin or someone else. I don't know how long that. Well that must have been after prohibition because McLaughlin come in after prohibition after 1930 33. It was after prohibition. Yeah. And they had a billion all over that place that we worked for

quite a long time up there. All right, five or 6 of us were doing crafting. I know that Dorsey used to sell his grapes I think uh for a while to italian swiss then I think someone to to call Bell and they do know that he

had large tonnages, several 100 tons. He did, he had quite a big country and they got good ground and they got good tonnage out of the right there. Did you know of the neighboring ranch? The Matthew ranch? Did they have grapes on the Matthew ranch which

was a neighbor of Dorsey Mclaughlin on the Warm springs ranch? I don't remember that. I don't recall of any other great ranch up there. Mhm. One more fellow that we had spoken about a little earlier and that was hale. I believe it was Karl hale. Do

you remember anything of karl hale? Hell. I know you had the winery right here in town, you might stay right and back where the high school is now and in those foothills there and he had a winery there and I don't know just when he started

it or when he gave up the winding, but I know that it was a winery that he operated there. Well he operated after prohibition for a short period of time frank because I had the pleasure of visiting there. Another name, another name pops up a name

that's very dear to me and that is Parducci. And you had mentioned me that to me a little earlier that Adolf had a winery in Cloverdale. Do you want to tell me a little bit about the Parducci family as you know them Parducci. That Adolf Parducci

had a winery on McCray Road up here in Preston and it was right there where the lumber mill is now and he was there for quite a while and finally he quit there and they sold out and then he went to UK and started the winery

business up there and he had quite a successful business up in Ukiah. He sold out in 1927, which was during the period of prohibition. Do you know if he operated before prohibition. That would be before 1919 Frank. I think he operated a little bit, a little

bit before then. Yes. Does the name Caruso or Imperioli? When you mentioned Windsor Windsor, excuse me. Preston those names come into being. Do they mean anything to you, Imperioli And Caruso? Uh Caruso doesn't ring a bell, but Imperioli does they were came out here and they

went on a Crocker ranch out here and at least the Crocker Ranch for a good many years. And then they used to haul their grapes down to Seghesio because the angel made was making wine and taking in outsiders. They run that for quite a good many

years on a lease basis. And then they brought that black property. The embryology did bought it, they brought the Crocker property, they bought the crack of property and then they, it's all part of it and kept part of it. And after during the, during those years

then they bought another ranch across the river over here on the flat lands and they kept that for a number of years. How about the name Zilla George Zilla, Do you have any recollections of hearing or knowing anything of him? Well, gellar was over on the

Dutch Creek Road and he had a winery going over there too. I don't know too much about him. I don't know when they started when they quit producing. I know that he had four daughters. and Julius Nervo used to court when, when he went to high

school, he took it to the Junior Prom. And the four daughters too married and two were spinsters. There were were school teachers and they're still alive in the Bay Area. I hope to talk to them someday. How about further, what do you know of the name?

Further fervor had a winery all day. He just south of town here. But I don't know just when they started or when they gave that up. But I know they did. We were in the wine business that go in that particular place. Okay. Can you think

of anyone else? Uh that comes to mind that might be of interest frank. Both put your radio, had a winery, Just started down here about about say four miles. And he had quite a little winery up in a little knoll there. And the operator for quite

a good many years. And then he sold out to the region to region family. And then uh region was the old man region passed away a few years after that. And then the son took over and he'd been carrying it on. Now. I understand that he

too has sold the place out here, sold out. Yes, they sold us some people out of the uh the Bay Area. When is a psychiatrist. And uh I don't know who the others is, their professional people. And they changed the name to Lab. Okay. Does the

name di Marcantonio mean anything to you? Yes, the Marcantonio had a ranch. Uh, well just just south of pottery, this place down there. I don't think, I don't recall of them having a winery. They had, they had a winery. I don't know how long they operated

because the worlds of the winery are still there. That's right now. I recall they got the big sign on the, on the part of the foundation that remains over there. They were they were neighbors of Felisha Feliciano Virdon and we'll get into the don in just

a minute. The reason why I know the mark Antonio's, they are related or they are composed Godparents or something or rather with the Shaara's and I knew the shards in san Francisco in fact, Domenico shower used to rear goats and I was reared on goat milk.

And so that is why I'm always bucking like a goat I'd say. And that is why I know the D Mark Antonio's had a wine every bit as to when they operated. I don't know, but let me hear from you regarding to the dance. What you

know about the batons, although his arms had a winery um just south of Cloverdale here and they were in the wine business and then they also went into the bottling business? And they also were producing us there for a time, sparkling wines? Was that before prohibition

that they produced the sparkling wine or was it after? I think it was before. The reason why I asked that, I know a little bit about their history. They get mixed up with a fellow of the name of borden abe and borden abe contended that he

had the rights to use the cresta blanca label. That during prohibition, they bottled day being Bordenave And some associates, a fellow by the name of montagna bottled under the uh, non alcoholic spirits or not. An excuse me? Non alcoholic beverages under the cresta blanca label. So

I do know that, but I don't know whether they bottled and I knew they had a bottling line uh, somewhere between 1934 and 1937. No, you mentioned the Ferraris. Tell me about the Ferraris. I know that they had a large family and I'd also like to

know something about their family and I do know that they were swiss. Yes, they were pretty funny for me because I'm sweats too. And they had a ranch up there just uh east of highway up on the hill up there and they've had a little winery

up there and they operated for quite some time then when the pusher radio went away and someone passed on, they took being related to them, they took over the Perez a winery and they operated that for quite a number of years. Then they gave it up.

I don't know just how many years ago, but they did give it up. It was after prohibition that they gave up. Now you mentioned Carazo first, you told me about petty yushu wasn't with uh put the radio now. And you also mentioned the para, So there

were two different places. The ranches, uh, two different families. The ranches joined each other, but Carasso had a winery as well as a vineyard. That's right. That's right. So that's another winery in the area. And then that's the winery there. That Richie had taken it over

also and it's right next to the region place and a butcher radio. Uh, south of as the minority had a winery down there. Was it on the highway? Where, where was it located? In contrast to Antonio Zanzi is winery. It was not remarked the last winery

that you mentioned, I think it was missionary and you mentioned that it was uh north, it would be south of Asti and north of uh Tony Zanzi. Would that put him in line with the whitish, I'm a ranch. Was that the name of Wendy? Sherman down

there that had the two stone pillars and the and the wrought iron gate. The winery winery was north of the, with the shine ranch and Sandy was south of the way to shine. So that british arms in between those two places and binary winery. It was

about two miles south of Asti and it's right by the railroad track is not up by the highways. And Sandy is also near the railroad tracks further down the All right. When you spoke of Sandy, the thought occurred to me, how about the Bernoulli family? What

do you know of them? Bring your knees? I can't recall whether they had a winery or not there. They had a winery in 1934. They operated in 34 or 35 and I'm sure they must have had it during pro a prior to prohibition because I'm sure

they didn't build a winery at the last minute. And I know that Reynolds had three daughters and one boy and the youngest daughter, josephine used to play the organ in the chapel that asked me and that's why I know a little bit about panels. Yeah, I

remember them well, you don't remember where they had a winery before prohibition. I'm going to talk to joseph and I made an appointment to see her soon. I can't remember recall that. I know they had something there, but I don't know what it was. Tell me

what you remember of the Seghesio family. Well, I don't remember too much about the brigade. Your family. I know they had a whiner there and was in quite extensive in the wine business and did a lot of the winemaking wine besides their own, taken in from

the outside. And uh I understand now that they're doing all of their wine business in the city of Duisburg where they have a main winery down there. And the local winery here, I don't even know if they have anyone in it at the present time, but

they're not question there anymore. Yes, they, they, I know that they've quit crushing, they've kind of curtail their operation and they're renting out the space chiquita, not at County station, they're they're renting out the tanks for storage space frank. You mentioned the name Mazzone. You want

to tell me what you know of it? I don't know an awful lot. I know that they had a winery there and they made wine and they also bottled some wine but not doing a great extent. Do you think they operated prior to prohibition? As far

as I know they did, they were there for quite some time. You mentioned Bandeira, Tell me what, you know of a metal band era UMA Bandeira. He went into the wine business right after prohibition, I believe it was. I don't think he had any winery before

that, but maybe it did. I can't recall it before, but he was right close to town here and he had quite a spread of vineyard there and they all made up his own line there and now there's no more farming there. It's all how is this

nice big expensive homes and lots of them tell me about pacific vineyards, you have the name bola written on the piece of paper. What was your experience with Ebola, a specific vineyard, I didn't have too much experience with him. But when bola came in and took

over, he was gonna do wonders there. And he got some of the wineries up here to send the winds down there too. Uh huh. Who sent said one thing another and what happened? It's not nice to say because we got stuck. We never got any penny

for the wine that we took down to that place. And they went, do you have any recollection of who was in that building before Ebola? I had been told that there was a partnership by the name of uh, Lawson, uh, container and Perelli Minetti. Does that

ring a bell with you? The names, the names are very familiar to me, but I don't know too much about him. I do know we got stuck with some wine when Bullock took over frank, I forgot to ask you the first name of your father please.

My father's first name was L. Vizio. And they're in the english language. It's Elvis. How did you spell elle deco. It sounds like the old one. L vecchio. Yeah, I'll be, I'll have to write it out to make it. Uh, L A L E L V

E Z I O. That's really interesting. It's the first time I heard that we had the, the counterpart of Elvis in italian. Very interesting indeed on the federal reports that generally use the Elvis we have before us frank. A federal uh, report form entitled the US

Internal Revenue Service Form 702, revised october 1924. Do you object if I take this home and make a photocopy and then return it to you? This is the only piece of evidence that I have seen of form reporting during the prohibition era. No, there's no objection.

Help yourself and do the best you can with it. Would you repeat what you just said a second ago frank please? Well, I have a map of cinema Connie that lists all the ranches in the county and I checked the borders of branches that I know

and it's made right to the point. And one interesting point on our ranch up on the hill, it comes to a point where it comes to mix a V shape as narrow V shaped and if a cow or a horse got in there, the only way

they can get out of the bank out. And so I checked that and on that map it shows that little spot. So I know that that map is so pathetic. Map was made in 1928. Yeah,