Charles Scalione

If you're 18 days over your birthday, Charlie, I hope you know, so tell me what we'd like to do is we'd like to get your experiences in the wine industry. Would like very much to have your start, how you got into the industry and perhaps a

little background on your father and how uh, for once he came in Italy and his genealogical background, how many Children in his family and whatnot? So let's start with your father. His name. Oh fresh your name. This is charlie Schiavone in a meeting with uh Janowski,

uh, who's forgetting? And uh, we're in charlie's office and fostered in Healdsburg. So charlie. Uh, go ahead. Let's tell us first how you started in the wine business when you started and what brought you into the industry? Well, let's see. I started in when he was

on the ranch and Windsor, we had a small ranch, well we had 100 and 60 acres by the street of the, the location location was on brooks road. I'm about go 2.5 miles off the highway From Windsor in one on 1 highway describe the land. I

have a vivid recollection of the land is all rolling hills, very few flat spots and find it For about 30 to 48 of the new venues on the top build the highest, the highest hill. Do you remember the variety each other, the varieties that we found

it was turned down zinfandels and producer Being that those were the three main writer rapes at that time in 1930 or 35 and 36 was there. And I think it was there a vineyard on the land before you better land and pull stumps, dynamiting stumps and

then had it all florida. Mhm had all candidates that did the squaring off to plant the stakes, which I, There's something new. They had a chain with a little rum buttons eight x 8 who planted our opinion And they had to follow the contour of the

mountain so they would always stay eight x 8. That was a trick. And on the top mountains with was harder. We had done in my whole mm for the bar in it, loosen the ground up and put in about a quarter stick of dynamite and reconnect

building everything that was dynamited, grew beautifully enough sandstone, sandstone that time. Uh that's and then the reason that we went into the winery businesses that we could never find anyone. The buyer grapes. One year we sent our troops back east and we have to pay the

freight besides growing it and everything else. We were built for freight out of pocket out of pocket. Like san Francisco market was very poor. It was blood, it was too much risk in it, 1930. We have $50 grapes. The average price was $25 a ton, Wow,

In early first early frost damage the crop, 46.5 tons of dreams, Average price $23 a ton Net sales. $917 after the cost of picking how many acres did you have landed? You have to produce that charlie. Well, Trying to get a yield for 8-10. Well, it's

getting a yield. Per acre was not over 10.5. Mm hmm. Much more than that 1932 We've got 64.5 tons of great. Mhm. The cost of picking was $250. The average price for Zinfandels was $17 a ton. Average price for Allie County $9 a. Mhm. 1933. Early

frost again damage the crop, repealed the 18th amendment. That's something that sold to the hills. Berg wine Company at $42.50 a ton. Who's up? 45 tons, agree. Alright, 1934 prices went down again From 12.5 to $17 a ton. We had 100 and one ton and I

crushed to make wine. That's the year that I started to make wine for. And I made 15,994 gallons of wine. It costs a picnic, three minutes, $25 a month or $120, 1935 Price was working 12.5 to 15, 110 110 tons of grapes Crushed into dry wine.

16,000 gallons. I paid six cents a box for picking. That's neat to have those we get pictures of obviously we're ready for 1936. Cross hip frost hit of the spring. That's when we really got Prices from $18 to $20 a ton, 73 tons of great crushed

into wine produced 10,000 gallons of wine Cost of picking, calling and making wines. $150. No. Yes, that was the end of up. Oh then 1935 is where you come in now, 1935 wine sales sources. Catina brothers 10 cents a gallon. Total sales, $1,412, 19 36 soldiers.

Catina Brothers, 500 gallons of white wine, 13 cents a gallon martini wine company, 13 1000 yards. And I didn't put the price for some reason. Total sales. While you can subtract the total sales with $2,313 to get money for you at that time. Uh I couldn't

even pay taxes. Uh, charlotte. What did your name? Your winery. And where did you get the name out? Because it was a highlander highlander highlander was rolling hills and really apply. We must have been forced. It must have been in a warm belt because the grapes

with mature earlier than the one. The farmer mixture me. In other words, my grapes, I could always the name of the farmer. Next time we will inform. Mhm. And parolee. Minetti was on the other side of us there on the other side of the hill, which

is now the valve are in good. Good. Yes. so I get the story and that the castle actress had a mortgage on that A $30, $30,000. And they took it over in 19 96. I also made wine from my neighbors and I used to buy their

grapes. And here is an agreement that I made with Mr Richards, Alta Loma winery hereby agrees to give 90 gallons of wine for one ton of grapes. Mr Richards delivered me 15.5 tons Of grapes and 90 gallons and and I paid him once out he had

1000 395 gallons to be paid when sold. Then I sold it to 10 cents a gallon. They gave $139.50 50 15 tons of great. I'm not sure, but obviously I think that's great. That's that's what I have to warn you that we should at least get

me copies of that. There was another one in 1934 Mr Brovelli at the same nine cents a gallon. Mhm. Here's the permitting data as september the 18th, We crushed $197 of the grapes, 9850 lb 27.5 sugar. When Sarah. Alright, it started on the 18th of crushed

27.5 on the 19th of 29. Here's what we got stuck on the 20th. He went down to 20 on the 21st 19 The 22nd to 1522nd again I took it was nine and the 2035. is five And note I added H 20 120 gallons not enough

not enough stop fermentation of five. Why was the fermented then the grip from the old hill and top watches vineyard Wine produced 716 gallons. Promise £1,933. That's really interesting. You really are. Yeah that's it. Yeah you should try it sometime. Yeah. Mhm. And they said that

the ones that look like the kind of stuff that go in the museum, this is this was one you will admit it, this is wine. Yes it isn't the only the only thing that has had in here was mentored by self fight and the and this

was all groups that I have simple and bells and venice era that we mix it together. All right, here's another one 20. The sugar test 24 on october Over October she was just 24. I crossed it on the 12-24 on the 13th and went down to

20 on the 14th and went down to 19 On the 15th was under 10, The 16th was on the 7th and the 17th have gone to the 18th of zero. Uh huh one public the storage tank that was And I added H 20 added to correct

the sugar test. Innocent charlie is the vineyards still there today? Some of it is still there. Who won't mind happened? I don't know who to whom did you sell the property to Missouri? And he ran the wonder for a little while. Yes. And then he gave

up the buildings still standing. Building is still standing. It's all ruined but it's still standing now. The converted barn and that's it. So tell us about the winery. Tell us about the acquisition of the tank with the tanks that you had mentioned to me that we're

up at the we had Patton. Was it another reason why we started the why we when my dad had been in the machine shop in a wine manufacturing company. They're manufactured nothing but wind machine. Mhm. He had acquired the three partners. When But the other videos.

Soldier one. Very interesting there. The Hillsborough Machine Shop acquired it. There were both casts and they divided the oak casts between the three partnerships. Mr Ferrari got 1/3 of the cast which I think they're still up in his winery at the sort of like wine. And

I think that went on the road. I'd like to go up there and take a look at it. But I believe that that's one of them. Mhm. My dad mr Scanlon, he got his share out of it and Mr ross finally got his share out of

it but Mr often had no place to put him so he sold the bigger ones between Ferrari and scallions. And my dad had this big bond and we set them up there and they stayed there and they were almost on the verge of going you know,

I didn't spoil moldy and everything else but good care of them and they were nice. What do you think happened to them converted into firewood? To whom did Mazzetti something? I don't know who was that is older too. I don't know what happened to all the

rest of the equipment that was in there. In the meantime when the brakes got down to these low prices We decided and 1934 you're about to of course the whole place. So we got interested. But the window in Oakland which we're making thanks and we bought

three I think we've got six for many thanks. All knocked down. There were six of them 3000 gallons apiece. And we brought up two Large storage tanks for 6000. I mean I don't remember we had two or three of the 6000 gallon storage tank and we

had one or two, 3000 And we had about 51 oak casts. So when we with rack our wine we had coming down and it's really you know, Do you have any government records like the 698 because you saved everything and I thought maybe you have a

stable government record now when you say a label, I probably have a little wine bottled wine wine two the black and white Mark. Black and white market. Ray, what's his name? Ray Ray Santorini. Yes yes. And he listed seven door of Romeo and Romeo sarah. You

gotta start in Healdsburg. Right. He had he had a he had a grocery store that he started in Healdsburg. Where on west street we started on West street which billy is now Union Oil Station On that corner over the house it was a little house uh

where Harry bell. I used to live. The house of piper. No no no no. Where the present sporting goods shop of the Hillsborough machines now there used to be a house there. Right and that's where he started his started grocery store. And from there he got

bigger and he built the building right here. The commitment not the blue one right here over here. Oh no no what you want is now Up to Do. There's two buildings. Oh yes yes. Wasn't that a star? That was after after he after he wouldn't fill

you up with a crash in the 1929 market crash Romeo. Sorry had all his money invested in Transamerica and he lost everything, He lost his grocery store, he lost his warehouse and he lost his home. This warehouse is the one that you had acquired later. No

I didn't acquire Hilberg Machine shop. Put it up for him that's where he was shipping grapes and during a bootlegging days he was getting raw sugar. Mhm. It's interesting now we're jumping around here. That's interesting question is part of the whole it all kind of ties

in several times with the times that we were here. All right then, silly. I was selling bulk line to the black and white market. He would in turn set it up on his rack, people would come in there with their gallon jugs, fill up their gallon

jugs, about 35 cents a gallon of wine. That's what they should do today. But they're not doing it too much, too much red tape and and then it just gradually got well let's go back to it. He's the one we put up our tanks, we had

mr bellagio put erect all the tanks I helped you all redwood allred would help him put all the tanks up. Put off for many tanks up, he put the tanks up, I had them all linseed oil on the outside and the hoops around it was all

painted silver. That's just I remember also over why we had a dirt floor and we had the way we did the crushing we had a small hand pressure. My father had converted it in, put an electric motor and we would set the pressure on top of

the tank. I'm too by forest and from off the truck which we had a model t truck, take the grips of the boxes and dump it into the crusher right right up to the right inside the line, dump it right into the right into the crusher,

stepped right into the stems and all. And then the bottom of the crusher. We naturally had this wooden screen so that the palms when we drain it out, almost went up and wouldn't clog up the Mhm and punched it all down for many that was and

we had an old when that was true. We would take the from us out. We had an old old one was a pretty good sized press but you have to wind it by hand pressed a double accident that had a fast speed in the slow speed.

You go fast until I got to type that. You couldn't budget when you drop it already have a really on compound low pressure and it was a portable, it was no wheels that we move and get out of our way. So it wouldn't bother us. And

we also had, it's an old girl. One point I put my hand back and forth to of a two to operate in one on one side or the other and step on the board. This, I wouldn't jump up and down on you and put my hand.

And also dad converted an old Another old wine pump and we put a pump jack on it with electric motor. So it would be easier when we're pumping 6000 gallons that you promised faster. But we had all pumps, no subtropical uh positive displacement pumps in a

tropical popular to this one. It creates it changing, turns it all up so we didn't have that. And then the next year, why? We got a little bit more and dad, they were making coolers at that time. So we did get a cooler for our fermentation

water cooler, which was uh, they didn't know nothing, you know, uh still 35 36 listen to like we are today with all the refrigeration and ice and everything we have to depend on water. And I also made out of copper copper. The cause of copper, three

quarter inch, three quarter inch copper. The outside pipe is a three inch boner tubing and they had bronze jackets on each end, which was really a heated changer. It did keep the wine cooler. In other words, you try to keep it cool about what temperature do

you try and keep it? I really don't remember anymore. I'm just making the one, you have to keep it down below. It has to stay around about 60 at least don't get fired because during implementation would get And it would stop one if you're not careful.

Yes. What was the capacity of this wine again? Well, I had only one about this question, 1920. That was a lot about, I would say about $25 and finally had and I was so it was also both And the only chemical that I used none of

my software and stick sulfur when you clean out the tanks. We put a pan through the manhole, you put a pan, a sofa in there and you know, and then when you got all burned out while either you leave it in there, you cork the top

of your tank and leave it that way. I'm done charlie. Did you have any unusual experiences? And while you're making wine, any any anecdotes, interesting anecdotes? Oh yeah. I had one experience that really was an experience. We had just the night before there were crushed our

grips wine and we put it in a, when you close the doors, seal the doors in your cast, you put Tallo all the way around the doors and you see that to make it Tyson with luke. Right. So we put our tallow and close the door

and we had too much one. So we put We filled one of the 1000 gallons with warm. Why that we are just taken out of the for many thanks. It was still kind of warm you know in the morning I was walking up and lo and

behold I look out and here was a all rolled wind down along the side of the road there. I said, good God what happened? I opened up the door sure enough there was a wine schooling right out of that manhole where the leak through the Talent

and it was just squirting clear out across the window. 4000 gallons of wine that's going down. That's interesting, charlie probably used mutton talent when I didn't give a flavor. So we we had in subsequent years because that was a common occurrence. We would cut it down

with beeswax, beeswax had, we did that afterwards. Yes, that was true of most of us. We learned the hard way. You scrape that thing off of the 33 scraper then three or four of town and put in your hand and your warmth of your hand would

well soften up the talent. Maybe put a little beat around it and I guess I've either put too much or something when I pulled the shot it didn't feel right or the one the one that we had to call up the Internal revenue because we have

the loss of gallons of wine and they want to, they had to know where it went. So they saw going out there and talked it off and that was talking about the internal revenue. What was your relationship with him? Of course you had done some work

when I was a very good man, had a very good relationship because I knew Mr Bennington which was a chief here in santa rosa and he advised me to work with him to make plots and plans for different wineries and the first one I made for

myself I had to do it and he made me put it on clock and had never I had some trading at high school and took four years of mechanical drawing which I still have my instruments here. Uh huh. You don't believe it, You won't believe it

with you. Huh. I mean look at that about 65 years old child. Holy Mhm. Mhm. That's incredible. And he later on he made me, it doesn't make me but he advised me if I would do it for him with all of the ones that didn't have

anything and he taught me money honey what to do what they wanted. And it was very interesting. I did my own good all of it. A wine company on a just out of southern town here who ran the elevator then. Huh? I don't remember his name

but it was from Slovakia new york. Oh yeah this is from the vineyards to have it. And then I did roses winery up and john rose, john rose and Brazzaville and I don't remember if I did Pedro feliz or not, I'm not too sure but I

did a few of them and then I got too busy and I turned my what I was doing to LJ hauled around hall which was my buddy from high school and then he took it up and he did all the wine reports for the wine reason

made the maps for him and everything else because well he probably oh he would probably really have him, he'd probably have he was like I wasn't, he kept records of everything. Probably. It would happen. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What was you know we always talk

about the water supply. What was your water supply of the winery? And what about your disposal? Well we had the water supply alright, disposal being there was just plain water. We just let it run right down down into the we had a small creek there and

there was no contamination. There was nothing but just with plain water and nothing in the water. And the water supply. We had a well Which was fortunate enough to have plenty of water. We had a tank setting up on the hill and we had an average

pressure about £50. We had a 60 over 6000 gallons of water were pumped up a hill cops. And we had a pretty good line. We all had Dad was a killing that he always wanted. Mhm. Either two inch or inch and a half and two inch

main lines. We have plenty of water. Did you name your own label? I had, my own label was approved. What was the brand you remember? It was on the Alto Loma, alta Loma. And of course we have Zinfandel and that's the bottom line was the only

one you really bottled Zinn was the only one that you really bottled under your label. Under my lady. Everything. All the other grapes were blended in with the sin. That's why I don't think I would localities from what I would get up on the hill. I

get some zinfandels and then I mix it in with Sarah's or you'd, you'd mentioned charlie that you sold some white wine from? What was it? Do you remember the golden chances? We have golden casters? We had delish assets. We had some burger groups, we had a

ball, maybe it was about a ton white burger and that juice would come out of the boxes galore. But the golden shots that returned to a beautiful golden color and we also had some mission grapes. In other words, we have that. We had a flat in

there, but I don't know who planned it that way. But it was mixed up with a variety of groups that was out of this world had had mission. It had rosa peru, probably half the people don't know what it even looks like. And it had this

burger's had sweetwater and then we then what we did, which they're doing today. We've cut the stumps off and we stuck rafted all the odd varieties. That was what I can do that Probably 1932 33. We would cut it off the, at the ST George that

came up. So I got to pick off that and put four sides right on the stump and then started to come back up again with the new brakes. Do you remember how long it took to come back to a full crap would be two years. Just

got through doing that with some of their vendors and he just got through showing slides on it. He says it takes two years now. The other great that we planted took a lot more. We took about 4-5 years before we got a crowd because the only

fertilizer that we ever put on on the ground chicken manure, that was a that was just last for about a year and it was gone. You never do it again. But where did you, where did you sell your own label? And how is your marketing? Well

the only market got just one little grocery store that I hadn't santa rosa. That's it, that's it. That was the only thing because the rest of the wine it was too much bother and we'd sell it by balkan prince. Forget it. We have to help you.

Pretty real label. Wouldn't it sold the once daughter. That's it. Alright, charlie, let's go to some of the neighbors in the area here. What do you remember? Let's start with Olive better. What do you remember about it? Well the elevator was a very, my memory is

one of the first ones that I have. The reason for that was at home. The foreman that was running the winery and mr Ferrero Ferrero was the winemaker then he was boarding with us and our home where on West street. My dad had previously worked. That's

the same winery before he went into the machine shop. What year was that? He must have worked on the winery there around. I was born in 19 seven and born there. So he was working in the wind at that time, 19 7. Yeah, I was born

on paul street there and the house, my mother was a cook. So what laborers that was working in the winery? Dad didn't have enough money to. This is cute. My dad didn't have enough money to buy the wine. So he would have a couple of glasses

of wine before he came home to eat. So he'd have his wine. Mhm. At the table. And then when you get through eating that, go back to the wind and have another glass of wine at the wine. What part of Italy dead. Come on. That came

from the northern part of it. It's a remote area. And he'll be in a A machinist there at his young age when he was running about 17 or 18. He was an engineer at that time, engineering and steam. In other words, he was a boiler engineer,

but he was a mechanic. What part of your monthly do you know? You're right in the central part of it was all a bit of cultural country, it's all wine country. And then when he came here 1905 his uncle was a superintendent of Madrona, no vineyards,

what was his uncle's name? Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony. He was the son of uh your father's brother. That's right. His grandfather's friend that my father had four brothers. He came to America. One of them went to Argentina. The other one later on in 1910 or

11 came to America and one remained in. Yeah. Which my aunt is still life. How old is she? She must be around about 90 or more. And she's still in love with the brothers that came to America. Where did he land that? Well they all came

to san Francisco. They all came here to Hillsborough. My uncle arrest he came here and I believe that his first job was that the tennis was calling. Mhm. And he has Little records of when he was a machinist. He also was a cabinet maker. And he

turned to pay my father off for the passage was just run about $80. Made two large wardrobe which I still have. Is that so wrong about him? So your brother? Your father come up first and the rest came over. My father cable run about 9-205. You

worked. Yeah. Who's Alto madre? No, which was all vineyard, which is the paxton paxton ranch. The Pakistan ranch at that time they left Both of them and arrested. Came over here. He came around about 1910 1911th. Yeah 195. When my dad came over here. He worked

long enough and yet in the meantime he had left his wife. He married in Cortona varied in Cortona has left his wife and she was pregnant and they lost their first, she lost her first son through a miscarriage. He's buried in ITaly. So when they had

enough money He got set the money over for her passage to come from Cortona Cortona back to Genoa and from Genoa to San Francisco, the passage was $80. Come by boat all the way all five. That was before the Panama canal. No, no Panama went by,

no by boat from the new york new york new york to start an island immigration there they pinned a big long ticket and not knowing anything. And every time they go someplace they take part of the ticket until she landed in san Francisco. Alright from san

Francisco two. What the work at the Pakistan ranch at the cookhouse. She was the cook for the labors at the ranch which was on a little knoll with dr visas place about something. A little note on top of there and the winery came off the no

and the one that was in a little hollow there and the main house was on the other side. And Tony's wife was the housekeeper for the facts of the family. Tell us about Tony hears from the same region as your dad was in the same region.

Did he have any experience in winemaking in ITaly before he come out. I don't know. Dad never said I have two boys. There was charlie Scalia. And when was theodora Scalia was still alive, charlie's Kalyani graduated from the university California in 1915. Mhm. He tell his

brother is still alive, which would be your first cousin. How often do you see my name in the an official change? Oh, I see him. And he has a son too. He said, what does he do, charlie? He said he was a postman and he's a

real estate real estate. You spread a character. He's in real estate. Yeah, let's get back to Allah Betta. We just started talking about all of it. And your dad, have you stand there who owned Olive better with time at that time. The elevator was owned by

Bernardini and Franceschini. Older and Lawrence C. Was the superintendent or the manager of the winery? Enable Pereira was the winemaker. Did you have any experience in Italy? He was a better culture. He was trained, he was educated as an intercultural, he had a better cultural school

and I still have his books on the agricultural work that he did in 1889 I believe. That's interesting. I don't know where I got him. I got him in a box when you're in a Carson looks like this year. That's the kind of stuff that you're

looking for? The museum for that kind of stuff that would really fit in that. Beautiful written handwriting. Longhand. But what writing today's anybody. You don't be writing that stuff. You don't write like that anymore. Beautiful. Was the book about basically what all of all his experience

going to school with old school that he went into. I know about the phylloxera. Oh he's got a hold down that he was way ahead of time. That could be published his notes. Notes in there. That was out of this world. I find that I got

to find a three. I got three books. So yes, how I got to hold him? He gave it to me and I kept them all the way getting back to the elevator. One being that he was living with us Going, I would go there after schools

to make pin money. I'll probably get 10 or 15 cents to paint the hoops on the barrels that were shipped back east because Guardian Franceschini had a branch office in New York and they were shipped bulk wine. Yeah. Box cars. Thanks pete to their place in

the east. No, I'd like to win that. Want me again. I just saw it open the other day and I want to go in it because if I go in and close my eyes and walk down those steps, I can still see the barrels lined up

on the road. They're going out the back with the cars with the car back in there to run it up the ramp because there were two tiers high. They had one up on the ends And they put two x 4s and put the military on top

of that. There are two tiers, embrace them. They wouldn't break. When were you last in the wind? It's been a long time. They removed the second floor. The second floor without wondering is really unique because it has the fermenting room. Yes. And they would talk to

us by the way that all the equipment from there was all Healdsburg machine company equipment crusher must pumps and all the pumps and then pumps the wine to the top into the fermenting tanks and the wine would be drawn at below. No, no, they didn't need

any pumps, pumps that they needed was down in the downstairs and that one is unique because the walls are near space in between them there but Well two ft thick, all brick with a big air space in between the walls that's got one was as cool

as a cucumber in there. Another thing too about that one and then like I said, I used to go in there and then I was always a little kid. I was half mechanically minded, I would go around the back end, we're reaching was a cooper there

that would fix all the barrels that would come back busted and put in a new stage in it or make barrels and I like I used to go back in there and watch him assembly and putting them together, cleaning them and steamy. Um, I did that

to the boiler in there, put jets of steam in the barrel in there to wash them out and we put south suit and clean them all out. They had enough work for Ritchie is a cupid to fully employed employed course. That was the Ricci. It's simply

bought the property that is still there. With nothing about Yes. Uh huh. Which is behind the property riches there, there's an old stone quarry that used to cut blocks with san Francisco. I've seen it, I've seen uh getting back to how do you talked about Mardini

and Francis, Lawrence, Seanie and Francesco. How did Franceschini come in first, it was Giardini and Lawrence scene. No laws french North Sydney was efforts and they in turn would buy their grapes from the frei Ranch. The Bar Ranch, I believe. If I'm not mistaken then maybe

Lawrence, it could have been on the front ranch, I don't know. And when they put the winery up around 1910 or sooner, when that one was built, I think Lauren Sidney came to the winery. That is when the fried winery was built in 1910. On friday,

there was no wind, no wind, no, yes, there's still, there was selling great, yes, the one that I think was built up there later during the progression and everybody went to pot. Oh, the winery fry. Brothers winery was built. You thinking I gotta get ahold, I'm

going to get a name, I get a charm or Andy fry because let's see, I got to get it. So check this used to be up there. Yeah. To search any brothers, William had the leg cut out and one of them was working for the performance.

A Swett never the up on top of the hill was a big cookhouse and sergeant is used to be the reason. I know because when I was at druids, druids, he was a secretary and I think I took his job over and I was about 20

years. I was about 20 years old. 21 like that. I have a the secretary for the druids at that time. Looking back to wondering. Yes, yes, yeah. But uh, so tell us whatever more you know about Oliveto then then, when did they sell to the Baron?

Well, the elevator cleared like that for quite a long time. And they also had a mama still and I used to love to watch pot still. The possibility that nick grandy and the gauge was always there. In fact at one time I had a whole set

of gauges and high barometers that I foolishly gave to the gala wine Ernest, you're Julia gallop when they were making wine when they were down there in the distillery. And I told judy that I had this, he said, would you bring them down to me And

I gave it to him. It was a little little box with all the, all the games. I've got one left here yet. Tell me I wonder if they ever have a big house throwing down or you probably have some judo is another one that looks really,

I haven't seen him for 30 years and I'm going to go down there and make a date with him and I want to see him. That would be a, that would be I'll find out when you find him up here again. I'll find out when he

comes up and go to lunch. I want to see him. Yeah, I'll find out, you know, he, he, he comes up frequently on his helicopter but uh, he doesn't like to go to a restaurant. So they have a little kitchen out there and they buy salami

and what not they do, they're eating out there. They used to go to the wrecks. They visited a super rank and I had seen junior son bob frequently at superman but he told me the last time I'd seen, which is now two years since I have

seen him, he mentioned the fact that they have a little kitchen there that they kind of make their own bob. Yeah, I'm making because him and I maybe we don't know each other that well what we did start. I remember him, but he had nothing. Yeah.

Oh yeah, nothing. Perhaps you hear no offices no bigger than this? Is that negative. That would be really interesting. And him and I know he would kid me all along and we would go, he was intelligent, he was seeing the picture on the wall, he started

buying farms right up to that. He bought a lot of ranches around Livingston, there were all grain fields at that time and when I get through at work, you know, he said come on, get his pick up and we'd go out rabbit hunting with a pick

up and he started picking up one. I mean you saw the writing on the wall? Really? Oh yeah, he was, he was the type of man that had CAhill make his first concrete tanks, all these things. The next year Julia was making the content of text.

That's right. They always like to do it themselves. He has I believe that Wilson Wilson is still, is he still there? His right hand man that he was making wine. Crawford. Crawford, right? He picked up charlie Crawford. Remember him when he came when he got him

at Davis picked him up from the telephone company. He spent charlie charlie went from Davis to tell a wine company because he picked him up there and like you said, if he's still there, he's still there. He picked him up as his winemaker. Right? Oh I

knew I knew Mr Keller too. But the rumor white, Yeah JB JB himself. What do you think was a big turnaround. When did yellow really become a popular or big name and wonder when did their volume really start to be that earnest with a good financial

madam. Uh right Julia, a good construction man and hard he could see ahead. He saw, he saw he saw way ahead of things like I said he was way, he saw the future that the one he couldn't, he saw that it was hard to get grapes

from their growers, you know, they were always not wanting to sell. So he would yeah sense enough to buy grapes like that. And also he would get wineries to make great for him and he would finance them where they couldn't you know, he was very liberal

and he was an honest man to answer this question. I think the second world war made. That's when they really started going today. Not even that he was, he was always on the goal. He was always were the other fellas with like robot, they either had

too much interference or uh what's the other one there? The sidewinder and then they got a bunch of cooperation we got in there you know, but he was always pushing ahead. He was always, he was a go getter. Let's face it, he was a go getter.

More than Ernest Ernest Ernest was the guy that had the financial end of it. You see that there was plenty of money around for Judah to operate on where did they, where did they get their money. How did they get money? Well they were very economical

workers In other words, the economy was password. Let's put it that way. He would not waste a nickel. He would not waste no lumber. He would not waste nothing. Well everything everything was usable in other words on that is that is the secret to economy. Let's

face it. Even today today, if we back to gallery being that we had the program, they had all this brandy. The name of the game at the time was sweet ones. So they bought all this brandy in the state of California. Very very low christ. Then

you have the transition from both to taste grace. And during that transition they had the raw material which they live in there Then during the war years from about 42, we entered the war in 41 but uh about 40-1. They made uh alcohol converted their fruit

distillery into an alcohol distillery. And it was subsidized by the federal government with the molasses that they are important and the other products. And so being the main alcohol on a cost plus basis that really started to, but that's not detracting from their ability. They were

they were the best market. That's it. I think his vision, he was probably, we can see what he, what he has done. He's got his glass factory, their husband now. Yes. And he built up his buildings and kept kept to six. But he didn't go overboard.

He just was limited. He always did. Just went so far. If you're 18 days over your birthday Charlie, I hope you're yeah. So tell me what we'd like to do is we'd like to get your experiences in the lion industry. Would like very much to have

your start, how you got into the industry and perhaps a little background on your father and how uh for once he came in Italy and his genealogical background. How many Children in his family and whatnot? So let's start with your father his name. Oh, fresh your

name. This is charlie Schiavone in a meeting with uh, Janowski. Uh, please forget it. And uh, we're in charlie's office and for ST Healdsburg. So charlie. Uh, go ahead. Let's tell us first how you started in the wine business when you started and what brought you

into the industry? Well, let's see. I started in when he was on the ranch and Windsor we had a small ranch. Well, we had 100 and 60 acres identify the street or the Locational commission was on brooks road and about go 2.5 miles off the highway

from Windsor one on 1 highway describe the land. I have a vivid recollection of the land is all rolling hills, very few flat spots and find it. Robot. 30 to 48 hours of new venues on the top, build the highest, the highest film. Do you remember

the variety each other. The varieties of the counter was arrogant and zinfandels and producer Being that those were the three men were I raped at that time in 1930 four, 35 and 36 was there and it was there a vineyard on the land before we pull

stumps, dynamiting stumps and then he had it all claudia and we had all the candidates that did the squaring off to plant the stakes, which I, there's something new. They had a chain with a little rum buttons Eight by eight. The time of our vision And

they had to follow the contour of the mountain so they would always stay eight x 8. That was a trick. And on the top mountains where it was harder. We had done in my poles, you know for the bar in it, loosen the ground up and

put in about a quarter mistake of dynamite and they connect the whole the building, everything that was dynamited, grew beautiful enough sandstone, sandstone, that's fine. That's that. The reason that we went into the winery businesses that we could never find anyone to buy our groups. One

year we sent our grapes back east and we have to pay the freight besides growing it and everything else, we were built for freight out of pocket. Might not a pocket. Like san Francisco market was very poor. It was blood. It was too much risk in

it, 1930 we have a ton of grapes. The average price is $25 a ton Wow, in early first north an early frost, damage the crop. 46.5 tons of grapes. Average price, $23 a ton Net sales. $917 after the cost of picking. Mhm. How many years did

you have landed? You have to produce that charlie? Well, Trying to get a yield per 8-10. We was getting a yield per acre was not over 10.5. Mhm. Much more than that, 1932, we've got 64.5 tons of great A cost of picking was $250. The average

price was Zinfandels was $17 a ton. Average price for Allie County. $9 a Yeah, 1933, an early frost again, damage the crop, repealed the 18th amendment. That's something that sold to the hills berg wine company at $42.50 a ton. We've got 45 tons of great Alright,

1934 prices went down again From 12.5 to $17 a time. We had 100 and one ton and I crushed it to make wine. That's the year that I started to make wine. 1984 and I made 15,994 gallons of wine. The cost of picking three minutes, $25

a month. $120. All right, 1935 prices were from 12.5 to 15. 110, tons of race Crushed into dry wine? 16 gallons Paid six cents a box for picking. That's need to have those kind of things. We get pictures of all of us when we're ready for

1936. Cross hip frost hated the spring. That's when we really got prices from 18 to $20. A ton 73 tons of great crushed into wine, produced 10,000 gallons of wine Cost of picking holly and making winds $150 enough. So I guess that was the end of

up. Yeah. Oh then 1935 is where you come in now, 1935 wine sales. Social Slatina brothers 10 cents a gallon. Total sales $1,412 and 19 36 soldiers. Catina brothers, 500 gallons of white wine, 13 cents a gallon martini. White company, 13 1000 gallons and I didn't

put the price for some reason. Total sales. While you can subtract the total sales with $2,313. It's a good money for you at that time. Uh, she couldn't even pay taxes. Uh, charlotte. What did you name your winery? Where did you get the name out? Because

it was a highlight highlander highlander was rolling hills and really apart, we must have been fortunate, we must have been in a warm belt because the grapes with mature earlier than the ones for the farmer mixed to me. In other words, my grapes, I could do.

What was the name of the farmer? Next thing you know where to look for him. Okay. And Carly Minetti was on the other side of us, there on the other side of the hill which is now the valve Aaron. So I get the story and that

the Haselock had a mortgage on that. A $30 $30,000 and they took it over in 1936. I also made wine from my neighbors there. I used to buy their grapes and here is an agreement that I made with Mr Richards, Alta Loma winery. Hereby agrees to

give 90 gallons of wine for one ton of grapes. Mr Richards delivered me 15.5 tons. Mm hmm. Mhm Of grapes and 90 gallons. And I and I paid him worked out he had 1000 395 gallons to be paid when sold. Then I sold it to 10

cents a gallon. I gave $139.50 for 15 15 tons of great and that's your bottom line. Obviously I didn't get great. That's that's when I had the wind in the judge. Should we should at least get me copies of that. Here's another one in 1934. Mr

Brovelli at the same nine cents a gallon. Here's the fermenting data is September the 18th. We crushed 197 box of the grapes, £9,850. 27.5. Sugar started on the 18th of crushed 27.5 on the 19th of 29. Here's what we got stuck on the 20th. It went

down to 20 on the 21st, 1920 seconds. 15 22nd Again I took it was nine on the 2035. 24th is five And note I added H 20 120 gallons not enough not enough stop fermentation at five. Why? It was re fermented then the grip from the

old hill and top watches vineyard Wine produced 716 gallons almost £1,933. That really is interesting. You really are. That's it. Yeah, you should try to make some time for the records and they said that they wanted to look at the kind of stuff that would go

in the museum. Yeah, this is, this was wine. You would admit it, this is mine. Yes, sure. It isn't. The only the only thing that has had in here was mentored by self fight and the this was all groups that I have Zinfandels and tennis era

that we mix it together here. Here's another 1.20 the sugar test 24 on October october october sugar just 24. I crossed it on the 12 to 24 on the 13th. It went down to 20 on the 14th that went down to 19 on the 15th was

down to 10, The 16th was on the 7th on the 17th of down to 18 0. Uh huh. Why puppet? The storage tank that was uh And I added H 20 added to correct the sugar test. Mhm. Thank you charlie. Is the vineyards still there today?

Some of it is still there. Who won't hide it? I don't know who owns it but to whom did you sell the property to Missouri? And he ran the winery for a little while and then he gave up the buildings still standing, buildings still standing is

all ruined but it's still standing, you know the converted barn? That's it. I can tell us about the winery, tell us about the acquisition of the tank, the tanks that you had mentioned to me that we're up at the uh we have a pact was another

reason why we started the winery when my dad had been in the machine shop in a wine manufacturing company there that manifested nothing but wind machinery. He had acquired the three partners when Yeah, but the other vendors, soldier winery interest in there, The hills, berg machine

shop acquired it. There were oak casts in there and they divided the podcast between the three partnerships. Mhm Mr Ferrari got 1/3 of the old cast which I think they're still up in his winery at the sort of like wine and I think that went on

the road. I'd like to go up and take a look at it. But I believe that that's one of them. My dad Mr Skylar, he got his share of it and Mr Robinette got his share out of it but Mr often had no place to put

him. So he sold the bigger ones between Ferrari and scallions. And my dad had this big bar that we set him up there and they stayed there and they were almost on the verge of going, you know, I didn't spoil it. I mean moldy and everything

else, but we took good care of them and they were nice. They still do you think happened to them converted into firewood, to whom did Mazzetti shot? I don't know who that is. Over two. I don't know what happened to all the rest of the equipment

that was in there in the meantime. Where the rich got down to these low prices We decided. And that was in 1934. You're about to crush our own race. So we got interested. But the window in Oakland which we're making thanks and we bought Three I

think we've got six for many thanks. All knocked down. There were six of them 3000 gallons of peace. And we brought up to large storage tanks. So 6000, I mean I don't remember we had two or three for the 6000 gallon storage tank and we had

one or two 3000 and we had about 5 1000 casts. So when we would rank our wine we had coming down and still we get on. Do you have any government records like the 6 98? Because you saved everything? And I thought maybe so sorry I

have a I have a government record now when you say a label I probably had destroyed a little wine bottled wine and I saw wine in bulk to the black and white mark. Black and white market. Ray, what's his name? Ray Ray Santorini. Yes, yes. And

he was the seventh of Romeo and Romeo. Sorry, gotta start in Healdsburg. Right. He had he had a he had a grocery store that he started in Healdsburg on West street. He started on West Street, which really is now. Union Oil Station is on that corner.

Over the house. It was a little house in the where? Harry Bell? I used to live in the house of piper. No, no, no, no. Where the present sporting goods shop of the Hillsborough machine. Now there used to be a house there. Right, mm hmm. And

that's where he started his he started a grocery store and then from there he got bigger and he built the building right here you see Not the Blue one, cement right here, over here. Oh no, no the key word is now not the blue there's two

buildings. Oh yes, yes. Wasn't that a safe race start. That was after after he after he went belly up with a crash on the mark 1929 market crash Romeo, sorry, had all his money invested in Transamerica and he lost everything. He lost his grocery store, he

lost his warehouse and he lost his home. His warehouse is the one that you had acquired later. I didn't acquire it. Hilberg Machine shop. Put it up for him. That's where he was shipping grapes. And during the bootlegging days he was getting raw sugar. Mhm. That's

interesting. Now we're jumping around here. That's interesting question is part of the whole it all it all kind of ties in to the Times with the times that we was here. All right then selling was selling bulk wine to the black and white market. He would

in turn set it up on his rack. People would come in there with their gallon jugs, filled up their gallon jugs, about 35 cents a gallon, That's what they should do today again. But they're not doing it too much, too much red tape. Uh And then

it just gradually got well, let's go back to go wandering. We put up our tanks, we had mr bellagio, put direct all the tanks, I've helped you all redwood allred would help him put all the tanks up. Put off for many tanks up, he put the

tanks up, I had them all linseed oil on the outside and the hoops around him is all painted silver. That's how I remember. They're all silver. Why? We had a dirt floor and we had the way we did the crushing, we had a small hand pressure.

My father had converted it in, put an electric motor and we would set the pressure on top of the tank. I'm too by forest and from off the truck which we had a model t truck, take the groups all the boxes and dump it into the

crusher. You drive right up to the right inside the line and dump it right into the right into the crusher, stepped right into the stems and all and then the bottom of the crusher naturally had this wooden screen so that the promise when we graded out

the numbers went up and they wouldn't clog up the faucet and punched it all down with, it was for many that was right and we had an old when that was through, we would take the pumps out. We had an old, not an old one was

a pretty good sized press, but you have to wind it by hand, a ratchet ratchet press and a double action that had a fast feet in the slow speed. You go fast until I got to type that. You couldn't budget. Then you drop it already had

a really in compound low pressure and it was a portable, it was no wheels that we move and get out of our way so it wouldn't bother us. And we also had taken an old girl, one pump, I put my hand back and forth, two of

us to to operate in one on one side on the other and step on the board. This, I wouldn't jump up and down on you and put my hand. And also dad converted an old Another old wine pump and we put a pump, jack on it

with electric motor. So it'll be easier when we're pumping 6000 gallons that you want a faster. But we had all pumps, no centrifugal pumps, positive displacement pumps is a tropical popular that this is the way it creates a changing, turns it over. So we didn't have

that and then the next year, why we got a little bit more and that they were making coolers at that time. So we did get a cooler for our fermentation water cooler, which was that, they didn't know nothing, you know, uh still 35 36 listen to

like we are today with all the refrigeration and ice and everything, we have to depend on water. And I also made out of copper, copper, the cars were copper, three quarter inch, three quarter inch copper. The outside pipe was a three inch border tubing and they

had bronze jackets on each end, which was really a heated changer. It did keep the wine cooler. In other words try to keep it cool but try and keep it out. I really don't remember anymore, I'm just making you one, you have to keep it down

below. It has to stay around about 60 at least. You don't get your fire in the 60's because you're the fermentation. It would get. Yeah. Yeah. And it was soft. Wonder if we're not careful. Yes. What was the capacity of this winding well had only one

about crushed 1920. That was around about I would say about 25,000 I have. Mhm. And I was selling was also both and the only chemical that I used none of myself right? And stick sulfur when you clean out the tanks, we put a pan through the

manhole, you put a panel sofa in there and you know, and then we've got all burnt out. Why either you leave it in there, you cork the top of the attack and you leave it that way. Mhm. I'm done, charlie. Did you have any unusual experiences

and while you're making wine any any anecdotes, interesting anecdotes? Oh yeah, I have 11 experience that really was an experience. We had just the night before there were crushed our grapes wine and we put it in the, when you close the doors, seal the doors in

your cast, you put Tallo all the way around the doors and you see that to make it type that would leave. Right? So we put our tallow and close the door and we had too much one. So we put We filled one of the 1000 gallons

with warm. Why don't we just taken out of the for many thanks. It was still kind of warm, you know in the morning I was walking up and no one behold, I look out and here was a whole road wind down along the side of the

road there. I said, good God, what happened? I opened up the door sure enough, there was a wise filling right out of that manhole where the leak through the talent and it was just squirting out across the whole 1000 gallons of one that's going on. That's

interesting charlie and we have probably used mutton talent but didn't give a flavor. So we, we had some years of course that was a common occurrence. We would cut it down with beeswax, beeswax had, we did that afterwards. Yes, that was true of most of us.

We learned the hard way you script that thing off of the 33 scraper there three or 4000 putting your hand and your warmth of your hands would will soften up the talent. Maybe put a little beat around it and I guess I've either put too much

or something when I pulled it shut, it didn't feel right or the one the one that we had to call up the internal revenue because we have the loss of gallons of wine and they want to, they had to know where it went. So they saw

going out there and talked it off and that was talking about the internal Revenue. What was your relationship with him? Of course you had done some work when I was a very good man. Had a very good relationship because I knew Mr Bennington which was a

chief here in santa rosa. And he advised me to work with him to make plots and plans for different wineries. And the first one I made for myself, I had to do it and he made me put it on four and had never had some trading

at high school. Another guy took four years of mechanical drawing, which I still have my instruments here. Uh You don't believe it, you won't believe it with you. Huh. I mean look at that about 65 years old child hold it isn't that uh that's embarrassing, don't.

And here and later on he made me it didn't make me, but he advised me if I would do it for him. A lot of these ones that didn't have anything and uh he taught me what to do what they wanted and it was very interesting.

I did my own uh Oliveira wine company on a just out of southern town here. Who ran the elevator then? Huh. Mhm. I don't remember his name but it was from the back in new york. Oh this year. Yeah this is just around the vineyards to

have it and then I did roses winery up and john rose john rose and Roosevelt and I don't remember if I did Pedro feliz or not. I'm not too sure but I did a few of them and then I got too busy and I turned my,

what I was doing to LJ hall of alcohol, which was my buddy from high school and then he took it up and he did all the wine reports for the wineries and made the maps for him and everything else. She still with him because he had

some interesting well he probably, oh he would probably really have him, he'd probably have, he was like, I wasn't, he kept records of everything, probably billion would happen. Yeah. What's the paper? Yeah. What was, you know, we always talk about the water supply. What was your

water supply at the winery? And what about your disposal? Well we have the water supply. Alright, disposal being that was just plain water. We just let it run right down down into the we had a small creek there and there was no contamination was nothing but

just plain water and nothing in the water. Yeah And the water supply, we had a well which was fortunate enough to have plenty of water. We had a tank setting up on the hill and we had an average pressure about £50, We have 60 over 6000

gallons of water were pumped up on the hill house. We had a pretty good line. We all had dad was telling that he always wanted either two inch or inch and a half and two inch main lines. We have plenty of water. Did you have your

own label? And I had, my own label was approved. What was the brand? You remember? It was on the Alto Loma, alta Loma. And of course we have Zinfandel and that's about it. Jin was the only one you really bottled. Zinn was the only one that

you really bottled under your label. Under my label. Everything all the other grapes were blended in with Susan. That's right. I would the localities from what I would either get up on the hill. I get some Zinfandels and then I mix it in with Pero serra's

or you'd you'd mentioned charlie that you sold some white wine. We had, what was it? Do you remember the golden chances we have golden Shasta's? We had polish assets. We had some burger groups. We had maybe it was about a ton white burger and that juice

would come out of the boxes galore. But the golden shots that returned to a beautiful golden color. And we also had some Mission grapes. In other words, we have that. We had a flat in there, but I don't know who planned it that way. But it

was mixed up with a variety of groups that was out of this world that had could have had mission. It had rosa peru probably half the people don't know what it even looks like. And it had this burgers? They had sweetwater. Mhm. And then we then

what we did, which they're doing today. We cut the stumps off and we stopped rafted all the odd varieties. That was Probably 1932 33. We would cut it off the at the ST George came up with that, Put four sides right on the stump and then

started coming back up again with the new bridge. Do you remember how long it took to come back to a full crap? Well would be two years. Just got through doing that with some of their vendors and he just got showing slides on him. He says

it takes two years now. The other grapes that we planted Took a lot more. We took about 4-5 years before we got a crowd. Because the only fertilize that we ever put on our on the ground was chicken manure. That was a bassinet was just last

for about a year and it was gone. Here you are again. Mhm. But where did you where did you sell your own label? And how is your market? Well the only marketing just one little grocery store that I hadn't santa rosa. That's it. That's it. That

was the only thing because the rest of the wine. It was too much bother and we'd sell it by balkan Prince. Forget it. Mhm. But we have to help me. Pretty real label. Wouldn't it sold the one starter. What's up? Alright charlie. Let's go to some

of the neighbors in the area here. What do you remember? Let's start with Olive better. What do you remember about it? Well the elevator was a very my memory is one of the first ones that I have the reason for that was at home. The foreman

that was running the winery. Mr Ferrero Ferrero was the winemaker then he was boarding with and I hold my own on west street. My dad had previously worked at the same winery before he went into the machine shop. What year was that? He must have worked

on the wonder they're around. I was born in 19 seven and born there. So he was working in the wind at that time, 19 7. Mhm. I was born on paul street there in the house. My mother was a cook. Mhm laborers that was working in

the witness. Dad didn't have enough money to. This is cute. My dad didn't have enough money by the wine so he would have a couple of glasses of wine before he came home to eat. So he'd have his wine at the table and then when you

get through eating that go back to the one you have another glass of wine at the wine. What part of it you get, come on that came from the northern part of it. It's a remote area and he'll be in a A machinist there at his

young age when he was running about 17 or 18. He was an engineer at that time engineering and steam. In other words he was a border engineer but he was a mechanic at the time. What part? A few months to you know, to me right in

the central part of it was all a bit of cultural country. It's all wine. And then when he came here 1905, His uncle was a superintendent of Madrona, no vineyards. What was his uncle's name? Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony Tony. He was the son of uh your

father's brother, grandfather and my father had four brothers. He came to America. one of them went to Argentina The other one later on in 1910 or 11 came to America and one remained in. Yeah. Which my aunt is still life. How old is she? She must

be around about 90 or more. Uh And she's still in what? The brothers that came to America. Where did he land that? Well they all came to san Francisco. They all came here to Hillsborough. Bye uncle arrest. He came here and I believe that his first

job was at the tennis was colony. Uh huh. And he has Little records of when he was a machinist. He also was a cabinet maker and he turned to pay my father off the passage was just run about $80. Made two large wardrobe, which I still

have. Is that so, So your brother, your father come over first and the rest of my father came over in about 9 205. You work? Yeah, there's Uncle Madrona know which was all billions. Which is the paxton paxton ranch, the Pakistan ranch at that time. Both

of us and arrested came over here. They came around about 1910 or 1911, something like that 1905. When my dad came over here. You worked long enough. And yet in the meantime he had left his wife, he married in Cortona. Cortona has left his wife and

she was pregnant and they lost their first, she lost her first son through a miscarriage and he's buried in italy. So when they had enough money he got set the money over for her passage to come from Cortona talk about the general and from jennifer To

San Francisco, the passage was $80. Come by boat all the way to 45. And that was before the Panama canal. No, no Panama went by, no from by boat from the new york new york new york to start an island. The immigration there they pinned a

big long ticket and not knowing anything. And every time they go someplace they take part of the ticket until she landed in san Francisco. From san Francisco two. What the work at the paxton ranch at the cookhouse. She was the cook or the laborers there at

the ranch which was on a little knoll with dr Benson's place now sits on a little note on top of there and the winery came off the no and the one who was in a little hollow there and the main house was on the other side.

And Tony's wife was the housekeeper for the backs of the band. Tell us about Tony. He was from the same region as your dad. He was saying all of the same region. Did he have any experience in winemaking in Italy before he come out? I don't

know. I don't know. Dad never said I had two boys there. When was when was theodora Scalia? Was he still alive, Charlie's Kalyani graduated from the University of California in 1915. He tell his brother is still alive, which would be your first cousin. How often do

you see my name in the an official Nintendo? I see him and he has a son too. Is that what does he do, charlie? He said uh he was a postman and he's a real estate real estate spread a character. He's in real estate. Let's get

back to Oliveto. We just started talking about all of it. And your dad, have you stand there who owned Olive Better with time at that time. The elevator was owned by Bernardini And Francis Stevie older and Lawrence C. Was the superintendent or the manager of the

winery, enable Ferrero was the winemaker. Did you have any experience in Italy? He was a better culture. He was trained, he was educated as an intercultural but he had a bit of cultural school and I still have his books on intercultural work that he did in

1889 I believe. It's interesting. I don't know where I've got um I've got a box when you're kind of Carson looks like this year. That's the kind of stuff that you're looking for. The museum. That's the kind of stuff that would really fit in beautifully written

handwriting, longhand. But what writing is today is anybody use envy is writing that myself. You don't write like that anymore. Beautiful book about all of all his experience going to school with old school that he went into know about the philosophy. Oh he's got a note

down that he was way ahead of time. That book could be published his notes notes in there. That was out of this world. I find that I got to find a three. I got three books. So yes, how I got to hold him, He gave him

to me and I kept them all these years. It's really amazing that way. Getting back to the elevator winery being that he was living with us Going. I would go there after schools to make pin money. I probably get 10 or 15 cents to paint the

hoops on the barrels that were shipped back east because Sardinian Franceschini had a branch office in New York and they were shipped bulk wine. Yeah. Box cars, facts paid to their place in the east. I'd like to win that wind me again. I just saw it

open the other day and I want to go in it because if I go in and close my eyes and walk down those steps, I can still see the barrels lined up on the road. They're going out the back with the cars with the car back

in there to run it up the ramp because there were two tiers high. They had one tear up on end and they put two by fours and put another tier on top of that. There were two tiers embraced in this that they wouldn't break. When were

you last in the right. It's been a long time. They removed the second floor. The second floor without wondering is really unique because it had the fermenting room and they would talk to bust by the way that all the equipment from there was all Pittsburgh machine

company equipment, The pressure must, punks and all the pumps that pump the wine to the top into the four million tanks and the wine would be drawn below. No, no, they didn't need any pumps, pumps that they needed was down in the downstairs and that one

is unique because the walls are no space in between there, but two ft thick. All brick with a big air space in between the walls. That's got one reason as cool as a cucumber in there. And another thing too about that wind and like I said,

I used to go in there and then I was always a little kid, I was half mechanically minded. I would go around the back end we're reaching was a cooper there that would fix all the barrels that would come back busted and put in the new

staves in it or make barrels. And I'd like, I used to go back in there and watch him assembling it and put them together, cleaning them steaming up. I did that to the boiler in there and put jets of steam in the barrel in there to

wash them out. Then we put south suit and clean them all out. They had enough work for ritchie as a coupe into a fully employed employed course, that was the Ricci. It simply bought the property. But still there was nothing about Yes, uh huh. Which is

behind that property of riches. There is an old stone quarry that used to cut blocks with san Francisco? Yes, I've seen it, I've seen it. Uh Getting back to, how do you talked about Mardini and Francis? Lawrence? Seanie and Francesca. How did Franceschini come in first,

it was Mardini and Lawrence seen no laura Franceschini Franceschini Northern cities with efforts and they in turn I would buy their grapes from the fry ranks, the crime branch, I believe if I'm not mistaken, maybe Lawrence City could have been on the front ranch. I don't

know. And when they put the winery up around 1910 or sooner when that wonder was built, I think Lauren Sidney came To the winery. That is when the fried winery was built in 1910 on Friday. When there was no one, no one, no one. Yes, there's

still, they were selling the one way I think it was built up there. Later during the prohibition, everybody went to pot. Oh, the winery fry Brothers winery was built. You thinking I gotta get ahold. I'm going to get a name. I get a charmer Andy fry

because I got to get it. So check these. Used to be up there to search any brothers when I had the leg corral and when it was working for the performance that was never the up on top of the hill was a big cookhouse And the

sergeant is used to be the news. I know because when I was at druids, druids, he was a secretary and I think I took his job over and I was about 20 years. I was about 20 years old. 21 like that. I had a the secretary

for the druids at that time. We'll get back to wondering about time. Yeah. So tell us whatever more you know about Oliveto then. When did they sell it to the Baron? Well the elevator stayed like that for quite a long time. And they also had a

plumber still and I used to love to watch pot still a possibility that we're nick brandy and the gauge was always there. In fact at one time I had a whole set of gauges and high drama tres that I foolishly gave to the gala wine Ernest

get Julia gallop when they were making wine when they were down there in the distillery. And I told judy that I had this, he said, would you bring them down to me? And I gave it to him. It was a little little box with all the,

all the kids. I've got one left here yet. I wonder if they have a, you probably have some judo is another one that is really, I haven't seen him for 30 years and I'm going to go down there and make a date with him and I

want to see him. That would be in a, that would be, I'll find out, find out, come up here. I'll find out when he comes up and we'll go to lunch. I want to see him. Yeah, I'll find out, you know, he, he, he comes up

frequently on his helicopter. But uh, he doesn't like to go to a restaurant. So they have a little kitchen out there and they buy salami and whatnot and they do their eating out there. They used to go to the wrecks. They visited a Super Rank and

I had seen Julia's son bob frequently at superman. But he told me the last time I'd seen, which is now two years since I have seen him. He mentioned the fact that they have a little kitchen there that they kind of make their own yeah, I'll

make you know it was him and I maybe we don't know each other that well what we did start, I remember him when he had nothing oh yeah, nothing actually had no offices no bigger than this negative. That would be really interesting to him. And I

know he would kid me right along and we would go he was intelligent. He was seeing the picture on the wall. He started buying farms right off the bat. He brought a lot of ranches around Livingston. There were all green fields at that time. And when

I get through at work, you know he said come on, get his pick up and we'd go out rabbit hunting with the pickup and he started picking up one. Well uh he saw the writing on the wall. Really? Oh yeah, he was, he was the type

of man that had CAhill make his first concrete tanks. All these things the next year Julia was making the constant attacks. That's right. They always like to do it themselves himself. And he had, I believe that Wilson Wilson is still, is he still there, His right

hand man that he was making wine. Crawford Crawford Crawford right Crawford he picked up charlie. Crawford remember him when he came when he got him at Davis? He picked him up from the telephone company. He spent charlie charlie went from Davis to tell a wine company

from the gallery because he picked him up there and you said if he's still there he's still there. He picked up his winemaker right? Oh I knew I knew Mr teller too. But the rumor y yeah JB JB himself, what do you think was a big

turnaround? When did yellow really become a popular or big name? And wonder when did their volume really start to see that earnest with a good financial man. Uh Right Julia a good construction man and hard he could see ahead. He saw he saw he saw way

ahead of things like I said he was way he saw the future that the one he could he saw that it was hard to get grapes from their growers. You know they're always not wanting to sell. So he would he sense enough to buy grapes like

that. And also he would get wineries to make great for him and he would finance them where they couldn't you know he was very liberal and he was an honest man to answer this question I think the second world war made that's when they really started

to go and not even that he was he was always on the goal, he was always were the other fellas with like robot they either had too much interference or look what's the other one there at East Sidewinder then then I got a bunch of cooperation.

We got in there, you know, and but he was always pushing ahead. He was always, he was a go getter. Let's face it, he was a go getter more than Ernest. Ernest Ernest was a guy that had the financial end of it. You see that there

was plenty of money around for Judah to operate on. Where did they, where did they get their money? How did they get money? Well, they were very economical workers. In other words, the economy was there password. Let's put it down. He would not waste a nickel.

He would not waste no lumber. He would not waste nothing. Well everything, everything was usable in other words on that is that is the secret to Economy. Let's face it. Even today, today three Back to gallery being that we had the program, they had all this

brandy, the name of the game at the time of Suite one. So they bought all this brandy in the state of California. Very, very low Christ. Then you have the transition from bulk to taste rates. During that transition. They had the raw material which they live

in a Then during the war years from about 42, we entered the war in 41. But uh about 40-1. They made alcohol converted their fruit distillery to an alcohol distillery and subsidized by the federal government with the, the molasses that they imported and the other products.

And so being the main alcohol on a cost plus basis that really started to, but that's not detracting from their ability. They were, they were the best market. That's it. I think he was probably, we can see what he's, what he has done. He's got a

glass factory. There has now, yes. And he built up his buildings and kept kept to six, but he didn't go overboard. He just was limited. He always did just so far. And that was it. And he kept up with all the new ideas, a lot of

experimentation they had.