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Ok. Hello, I am Lucy Coleman and I go to Annalee High School in Sebastopol, California. Hi, I'm Ellen Anderson and I also go to Annalee High School. Awesome. So today is May 12th of 2023 and we are here with Brian Kelly Brennan Fair Fit. Ok. So

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we'll start off asking some questions. Um, so what are your memories of Harvey Milk as well as any other activists that have been prominent for you? Well, let me, um, ok, I think we can start there. Uh, so I was, I had recently graduated from college

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and I was, uh, working just outside of Boston when all that Harvey Milk stuff came down. And, um, so, I mean, just reverberated through the whole gay community everywhere in the country and probably throughout the world. I mean, it was just a huge thing that, that

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happened and, um, everybody was, was freaked out and everybody was looking into stuff and, and, um, I mean, in all the bars and stuff that was the talk, the talk of the day and, um, uh, people were very riled up and I think it really got

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a lot of people, um, awake and organized. I had done some political stuff in college and, um, it was kind of quiet about stuff and a bit in the closet, you know, because I was, wanted to get a good job. Right. So, um, when I got

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laid off after a couple of years I, um, I just up and moved to San Francisco. So that was kind of a big influence for me going there. Yeah. I'd like to ask, um, like, what was your experience like in college? And you said that you

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were in the closet? How was that? Um Like hiding a part of your identity for a little bit for like to kind of fit in, I guess, with the societal norms at the time. I don't know if that makes sense and well, it starts a little

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further back for me. Um, you know, it was still a mental illness until I was about 18. So when I was age 12, I made the mistake of coming out to my parents and they sent me to a psychiatrist. So, and then I pretended not to

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be, you know, I pretended to be straight that I thought I was cured. I thought it was just a phase. You know, I didn't really mean it. No. And I tried to pretend to be straight, but it didn't really do a good job. And so shortly

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after my 17th birthday, my dad kicked me out of his house and I actually ended up living on the streets in a town in western Massachusetts. Um, and there, I uh ran into some Puerto Rican drag queens were also kind of half on the street too,

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you know, and they took me under their wing and saved my life and saved my soul. And, um, but I had already applied to college and I went to the state school, which is cheap. And so I went, I went, uh there to college and um

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decided I was gonna study something that would give me a good job, right. You know, afterwards. So, so there I was, and I forgot the question but, but so yeah, so, so by the time I got to college I thought shit, you know, uh coming out

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is dangerous, right? It, it was, it's life threatening. And so, um and I knew it was, it had been taken off the DS mo whatever the, the, you know, list of mental illnesses but still by any means was not accepted. And so, so I um stayed

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in the cause and in fact, I tried to be straight. I had several boyfriends and stuff because I thought, what do women see in this looks like? Am I missing something? And it was like, no, I was wondering, did you remain friends with those people that

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took you under their wing at all or do you still know them or was that just kind of like a quick phase? It was interesting. It was people, like, people would disappear off the streets and they just say, oh, they went home and you didn't know

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if they were killed, you didn't know if they were arrested by the police and nobody talked about it and most people were on first name basis and people could disappear the next day. And it was really a, you know, and I just, as I didn't keep

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in touch with them, it's like nobody kept in touch with anybody in a way, you know, it was, it was just an, it was just a weird time and everybody was in survival mode, you know, they, they shared everything with me except their drugs. Um, awesome.

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So we can move on to the next question. What is something that gives you the most hope for the future or, um, or joy? Like something that brings you a lot of joy and hope lots of things actually. And, you know, there's change happens. It, it's

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just inevitable that change happens and it gets influenced by different things and it's, you know, it's scary times but all times are scary in different ways and, and, and people are coming, coming up with such resilience and such good, good ways of supporting each other and

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learning and stuff like this is, you know, awesome. And it's, um, so that for every, everything that gets mowed down, there are little sprouts happening. I love gardening. So I just go out and when I get, uh, I freaked out. I go out in my garden

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and I just, ok, yeah, things are, you know, things grow, things change. And so, and, and to see just, I mean, just how different attitudes are. I mean, what really, you know, gives me a lot of hope is all this gender questioning stuff. I love that.

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I love it. There aren't two genders, there's a bazillion million genders, you know, there's a bazillion million everything in nature. There's never a dichotomy of just two anywhere, you know. And so that gives me a lot of hope. That's great. Oh, yeah. Um I was kind

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of wondering, like, tell me a little about the love of your life and your experience, like dating and stuff like that. I had a lot of, I've had many, many, many successful relationships the way I put it. Um And each one I'd learned from and I

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tried to, and I was very good at, I was very determined not to overlap relationships, not to, you know, find somebody else to leave from, but to, you know, leave a relationship and then take some time to figure out what, you know, what was wrong in

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that relationship. And a lot of it was based, you know, my family was uh very, uh my, both my parents were raised, very strict Irish Catholic. My dad was a career military. I was like, oh my God. And he was a drunk. So it was like

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the Holy Trinity of bad luck. I was like, oh, no. But, um, and so I, you know, I'd replicate stuff that I learned. I thought, oh, this is what a relationship is supposed to be like. And I'd be like, and it didn't work and it did

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work. So then finally on a blind date, uh, I met the love of my life. It was so wonderful. And, um, she and I went roller skating at the palladium in San Bruno on, on a gay night and neither we didn't know how to roller skate.

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And, um, it was fabulous and we got together, we had our struggles and stuff, but she's, we're just, she's the love of my life and we've been together 28 years now. It's just amazing that and what's totally, still blows me away is we were able to

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get married. I mean, even when we're getting married, we're like, is this real? How can we really do this? I think, you know, so something's gonna happen, you know, they're gonna come in and arrest us any minute and it's just been awesome to be married. It's

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the love of my life which I never, ever, ever thought would happen in my lifetime. And it's not something I even thought for, I thought was a good thing to fight for. It's like if you're gonna fight for anything, fight to eliminate marriage, you know what

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I mean? I get rid of it. As an institution and it was thrilling to get married. I'm so, I don't know, it was cool. And so you mentioned that you've learned a lot from those relationships. What are some of the things that stand out the most

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if you were to give advice to people or just, you know, big things you've learned from partners or from yourself? 01 big thing I've learned is to, um, never ever give advice. But, um, oh, well, one thing that I, that helped me and that I followed

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is that if there's, uh, a problem that I have in a relationship is don't look to blame the other person is to figure out what in me contributed to that problem. And sometimes it's, oh, you know, I shouldn't be in this relationship if that was my,

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that my, my bad call was to be in the relationship to begin with or sometimes it was just like, oh, you know, I was reacting to the person out of old hat, old, you know, self protection habits that I learned as a kid, you know, like

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I get defensive or I get, you know, weird like that. But just to, just to always look at myself and use it as an opportunity to grow. And also that it, it may mean that I grow out of the relationship or that my partner grows out

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of the relationship. That's always the risk. Is there anything else with that or? Oh, I'm good. Ok. Um, let's see. What advice would you give? I know you don't have to give advice. But, um, this one maybe is a loophole to yourself, to your younger self.

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Um, or do you wish that you had done earlier or felt earlier or something like that? Well, it's interesting because I tried to, uh, I try to be in contact with my younger self because, you know, when I was younger I kept, I was trying to

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be in contact with my older self. I was like, you know, do I ever get anywhere? Do I ever, you know, does this ever end? And, um, and I think the whole, there's a whole movement and I forget what the phrase is but something about, you

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know, it's, it's gonna be all right, it's gonna be all right. And I know I knew I was a lesbian when I was eight and I remember thinking I'm only eight, I've got more than I have to live more than the lifetime I've already lived plus

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two years, you know, four years or whatever to get to 18. It's like, oh, that's forever. And I just say, and trust myself and, you know, I don't know. It's, it's an interesting question but I think I, I think conversing with my older self and now

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going back and conversing as my older self to, to, to my younger self is, is, is very helpful and to keep in touch with all the spectrum of, because it's all part of who I am today anyway. You know. So just try to try to try

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to keep in touch with that and, and trust, I mean, when I, when and, and trust what you love, when I was a little kid, you know, we were Catholic or the Catholic church and stuff and God was horrible, you know, punitive and mean and nasty

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and watching you, it's like worse than Elf on a shelf and it was just really bad and I used to go out into the woods. In fact, I'd run away into the woods, you know, a sleeping bag and a sandwich and go out into the woods

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and the trees were wonderful. And so find something like that, you know, that, that you can have, you can have a sanctuary, you know, whatever moves you, that you can have a place to go to repeatedly. I think that it was so important. Hi. Um, let's

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see. Do you feel accepted now? Why or? Why not? Yeah, for sure. Yes and no. I mean, my wife and I have 2.5 acres in West County by some miracle. And we have native plants and pollinator plants and a big vegetable garden and fruit trees. And

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we have made it a sanctuary and we've made it a woman sanctuary. Men aren't allowed, they're unescorted. And so, and, and that's still important to us. We still need that even being out in the world because there's, you know, even before I had uh breast cancer

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and a mastectomy and, you know, lost all my hair and everything because I'm tall and because I wear comfortable clothes and sensible shoes, people call me c it makes me crazy. So why do they have to call you anything? You know, who cares why, you know,

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we can't tell. Oh, fine. So don't say anything. You know, that's what I love about all that gen this gender stuff. It's like, so cool. But I feel like I'm a woman always happy when that's what I wanna be and that's who I am inside and,

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and um forgot the real question again. Do you feel accepted or not accepted? So, yes and no, I, I deliberately travel in circles. I de I definitely have a close circle of lesbian friends and gay friends and um and of course, my best friend is straight

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but, but she's an exception. There's always exceptions. But, and so that's important to me and sometimes, you know, sometimes he's even my best friend who's wonderful and straight in my adore. Um Sometimes I just feel like I need to go to one of my lesbian friends

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for, to talk for an issue. So there is a level of, of unaccepted but, but I, but I think in some way everybody feels that for what it not because they're, you know, gay or straight but because they have curly hair instead of straight hair or

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because they have, you know, because they're not because they're short so they're tall or too tall. I mean, there's always something that people, you know, ee, especially in our culture, which is, uh uh you know, capitalist culture, which is the whole premise of a capitalist culture

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is to separate people so that each person buys their own lawnmower for their 10 by 10, you know, instead of sharing for the whole neighborhood. And so that the tendency to separate I think is felt keenly and that really feeds into the feeling of not being

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accepted. And there's also the residual fear that, you know, left over from my childhood and teen years, definitely not being accepted, you know, after I was sent to a psychiatrist for being queer, I was beaten up and uh lost my hearing, had midrange deafness since then.

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And, uh, and I was also attacked in other ways and have internal organ damage. I mean, there's just all this stuff that really goes in deep because it's lifelong that I have to live with. And I'm like, so there's still a part of me that is

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like, assuming I'm not gonna be accepted, which kind of feeds into that. Nothing there. No, I'm just sorry to hear about that, but that's hard. Yeah. Um Let's see. Thank you. Yeah. Um What is something that you wish non LGBT Q plus people understood better about

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the queer experience if there's anything. Well, I, you know. Yes. Um, I didn't want to be queer, you know, I just didn't want to, I, I actually tried not to be because it's, it, it was, it was a rough road but it allowed, it forced me,

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which I wouldn't have done. It, forced me to find out who I am. You know what I mean? And I think a lot of people who are straight, it's actually harder to find out who you are because you're straight. So you're already told who you are

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and you, and you, and you, you recognize some of it because you're straight, right? So you rec, oh, yeah, I like, I like guys. Yeah, I'm sexually attracted to men but, and then there's all this other stuff that, you know, it's like, well, and what part

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of it is you and what part of it isn't you? You know what I mean? And I think that's, I think that's harder for straight people. So I wish straight people would, you know, or non elder or whatever. I don't know if straight is category. Ok.

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Um, non LVG to Qi A element op, um, you would, I wish they, I don't want them to get forced into it. Like, you know, be because of discrimination and stuff. But it, it would be nice if, if there was that opportunity somewhere for everybody to

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explore who they are, you know? Totally. Let's see. Well, do you have any stories um, from your life about how LGBT Q I plus acceptance has changed for the better, like, any ways that you've seen that directly in your life or patterns that you've noticed over

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time. Yeah. I had, uh, like, even in the National Organization for Women, which my mother was a member of and I've been a member of and over the decades, I mean, it, it was actually started by lesbians but they had to be in the closet and

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any lesbians, you know, had to pretend they were straight to be in now and now you don't, you know, you can, you can be out. Um, so, so that's a huge difference, you know, and um it's a change. Uh and it's the whole gay marriage thing

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is a change and just being able to be queered in the military. Although I think it should be the other way around. I think nobody should be military. Although I guess, I don't know, it's a complicated thing but, but to have things open things seems in,

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in many ways, in many ways, I think things are really like Bermuda Grass have taken hold in a deep way towards acceptance, especially with the uh younger and younger people because, you know, old, older people tend to have our experiences that are hard to overcome. Sometimes

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they put us in a certain straitjacket. And um, so even though there's all this stuff in all these states about anti queer stuff, I think it's the last throes of, you know, of a dying, last flame of a dying candle, I guess is the phrase, you

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know, it's just this thing that's, but it, it, it can't, it's not unsustainable, it's unsustainable, the bad stuff. Um So let's see, we can dive into kind of like activism, like in your own personal life. Have you like, what's your story with activism? Um Have you

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been very active um in that way or you know, any stories over time? Just about that? Well, in college, I, I participate in some activities, not necessarily queer activities but like, there was a woman of color who was um who died and they really covered up,

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didn't do a good job investigating. And so we all went out and marched and protested and stuff like that. And then when, and then I didn't do much because I was like in the closet and trying to get a job. And then when I moved to

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San Francisco, um I got involved in uh a group called um Revolting Lesbians. And we did a lot of coalition work with like um leg gay and move, not move on. What's the anyway with, with uh lots of different organizations in San Francisco. Like we, we

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um closed down the Golden Gate Bridge and I was on it with my car closing it down. Scary. And we um we um all went to the opera house and went in and stopped and, you know, um delayed the opera with our protests and we, we

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did things like that. We'd, we'd go out in the middle of the night and go up on a billboard and change it, you know, to something that was focused on justice. You know, it wasn't just lesbians but the kind of queer focus but any kind of

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justice like move, uh the move or, you know, from Philadelphia and all that stuff. So, um, involved in that and, and went to marches, like, in 1989 went to the, um, the, you, you know, keep abortion legal, 1989 keep abortion, legal, ratify the, er, A, we

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were there marching and then I went to the w, the, um, women's march and what was it? 2020 in Washington DC. Yeah, that was cool. Luckily my brother lived there so we could stay with him. Um, and, uh, oh, and when I moved up to Sonoma

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County I was one of the founding members of Olio, which was old, old lesbians eating out. It was pretty much a social group and we meet each at each other's houses and it got pretty, pretty big and rowdy and stuff. So we did that like, once

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a month for God. Uh, but basically up until COVID kind of put A K was on that. Unfortunately, people sort of dissipated or did different things. Um, so, you know, I try to get out there, you know, I did a protest on the vel corner, uh,

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figure out what it was even a couple of times and stuff like that. I try to participate when I can because voices need to be there. Right. Yes, they do. Yeah. Oh, I was just wondering, like, how you found your way to Sebastopol and how long

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you were in San Francisco for, like, what brought you here? I was in, we were in San Francisco for uh uh about, I was in there for about 15 years and I met Ruth and my wife there and she was there for, I don't know how

00:22:45.650 - 00:23:03.630

many years, 20 or 25 years or something. And um we like San Francisco is a big city. And um we had the, we had ended up in the most ideal situation. We had the whole, a whole flat to ourselves for cheap. We really liked our neighbors.

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In fact, our neighbors told her told us but the flat, you know, the flat downstairs is empty, come rent it. We did and we redid the backyard and it was, and it still wasn't enough. It was, it was just not city people. I'm like, what are

00:23:16.209 - 00:23:35.790

we gonna do? And so my mother at the time who had polio and lived in Sebastopol um was getting very, more and more disabled. And so we were gonna build a manufactured home on her property and live there and take care of her and uh try

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to work from there at the time I was teaching in San Francisco, I could commute. And, um, so we had started to do that, got plans and stuff for a house and then, uh, she's, she had a stroke and died. So, yeah, so that, that was

00:23:49.790 - 00:24:05.510

in 2000. And so, um, I talked to my brothers and sisters. I'm the youngest and I talked to my brothers and sisters and they all had houses. And so, um, they didn't wanna, they didn't want to live there. And so, um, Ruth and I figured it

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out and we bought them out of their share and with our share, we could use that as a down payment. And then we rent out every inch we can, we've got like, um, you know, housemates and stuff. So we rent that out and we grow our

00:24:19.430 - 00:24:33.109

own food and we do all kinds of things to afford to live there and even, and it's still, and that was 20 years ago. So we, it's when the house was worth like $400,000 and now it's worth like $1.4 million. I mean, it's just, and it's

00:24:33.119 - 00:24:48.055

just a, it's just a dumb little ranch house. You know what I mean? 1952 ranch. It's just insane. So we just like, I feel very lucky because it was my mother's house. We get it under her tax rate, the property tax rate. So that right there

00:24:48.064 - 00:25:09.790

saves us like $6000 a year or something. So, it makes it so we can move there. So, and we adore it. We love West County. It's fabulous. It's paradise. Let's see. Mhm. I came to do that. I'm going to avoid the advice ones. No, no, that's

00:25:09.819 - 00:25:33.680

ok. We can throw one advice. And then, so what advice would you give to people who are just beginning to explore their LGBT Q plus identities? Oh, that's a, that's a hard one because it's, it's such a delicate thing, you know, it's such a, it's like

00:25:33.689 - 00:25:53.819

a little seedling just popping its head above the ground. Like what am I for? It is die cuts. Um Of course, my advice would be to find support, but that's how do you do that? Right. How do you do that? And just, I guess my more

00:25:53.829 - 00:26:12.069

concrete advice would be to um explore all those little voices and don't let them get squashed by other people or by yourself because that's very easy to do too and just explore them, you know, they may or may not lead somewhere, they may or may not

00:26:12.079 - 00:26:30.310

mean anything but just at least give them a little space. Um I was wondering how your relationship with your siblings is and I know that in the beginning, like you had a complication, complicated relationship with your parents. Did that ever get any better at all or

00:26:30.319 - 00:26:54.079

did it stay kind of not good? I ended up um, I mean, it, it, I wasn't out of my dad's house very long. He, he, my par, my parents had, uh, divorced when I was six and I lived with my mother until she broke her hip

00:26:54.089 - 00:27:07.140

and said, what the hell am I doing in New England where it snows? I'm going to Cali, that's when she moved out to California. And so I went to live with my dad and, um, I was in many ways, I was very close to my dad.

00:27:07.150 - 00:27:21.319

I mean, we were kind of a lot alike and I think he, I think he was gay myself. But, um, but I mean, we'd like to do the same things and I wanted to learn auto mechanics and he wouldn't teach me, teach my brother, my brother

00:27:21.329 - 00:27:34.400

was like, I don't wanna learn all of me. I was like this, you know, my brother wanted to learn how to cook and he's like, no, Freon's gonna learn how to cook. So it, it was complicated. He died when I was 26. Um when I and

00:27:34.410 - 00:27:51.250

I had, when I moved to San Francisco, um shortly after I moved to San Francisco, I, I changed my name because he had named me. Um And then it was, it's always, you know, your father's name, your, your father, father, father, you know how far you

00:27:51.260 - 00:28:07.729

go back? So I took Brian, there's this movie Monty Python movie called Life of Brian. Have you seen it. So it came out like right about the time when I was 18 or something. It's an old movie. I love that movie and I thought that describes

00:28:07.739 - 00:28:25.770

it. I wanna be Brian, but I thought nobody would hire a woman, Brian. So, what could I do? So, a friend of mine and I were doing uh mushrooms, you know, and, um, we came up with Freon and, um, and then I took my mother's maiden

00:28:25.780 - 00:28:39.989

name and her mother's maiden name Kelly Brennan. And I squished them together. So, and I changed it legally, which at the time you could do a lot easier than you could do now because of all the, you know, weird cyber stuff. So, so I changed my

00:28:40.000 - 00:29:01.209

name and that helped me put a AAA distance from my family and I made this artwork of, you know, my ideal queer family, you know. So, and, and so my chosen family really is queer. I'm pretty close with my sister. I was, I was very close

00:29:01.219 - 00:29:16.199

to my sister who died. She was developmentally disabled and she was a sweetie pie and I was really close to her and I'm close to my sister and I'm not my, the oldest brother. He's not, he's, he, he's been out of the family picture for everybody

00:29:16.209 - 00:29:37.959

for decades and decades. So I'm a little, you know, distant from my family, but I've got my queer family. Amazing. Um I know you mentioned that there may be something about, like, regret about coming out when you were eight, you said? But is there anyone that

00:29:37.969 - 00:29:52.030

you regret coming out to or has, like, everybody that you've come out to been the right decision to you show yourself well, that, you know, I didn't, I didn't tell anybody when I was eight. I knew when I was eight but I knew not to tell

00:29:52.040 - 00:30:04.390

anybody. Um, and I watched, and my mother had a lesbian friend. I, oh, that's interesting. And so I watched for years, I mean, that's a little hard to do when you're eight years old. And I watched it and I said, well, what do you think about

00:30:04.400 - 00:30:17.390

Penny and Penny is a good friend of mine. What do you think about her being a lesbian? Well, it's ok to be a lesbian. It's ok to be a lesbian, not her daughter. You know. So that, that made me hesitant to, to, to come out to

00:30:17.400 - 00:30:36.810

anybody. And, um, I had a dear friend at the time that ended up going to the same college I went to and I'd come out to her and I, I kind of, I don't regret it except that she would at, you know, she would announce to

00:30:36.819 - 00:30:53.969

other people that I was a lesbian. It's like, no, it's not yours to announce to other people. You know what I mean? And it felt a little dangerous at times. Um, other than that I tried to come out early, you know, before I establish a relationship

00:30:53.979 - 00:31:17.089

or establish something, just if there's gonna be any problem I can leave, I can go away. You know what I mean? So me, let's see, what are some of the most rewarding things about getting older in your experience? Everything, everything, everything when I was, you know,

00:31:17.300 - 00:31:30.810

when I was on the streets in Worcester, Massachusetts. And even when I started college I figured, oh, I'll go to college for a few years. I was convinced I was gonna be dead by 21 I was just convinced. And so I did drugs and alcohol. So

00:31:30.819 - 00:31:46.270

I was like, well, why not? Why not? And I was like, I had my 21st birthday, I'm like, oh my God, I'm still here. Um, but my world has just opened up and it's, it gets better and better and better and my relationships get deeper and

00:31:46.280 - 00:32:02.849

more wonderful, the more I work on myself. Coincidence. And I, you know, I just, I know so many things, you know, after I left engineering, I, when I moved to San Francisco, I, I didn't do engineering anymore. I became a massage practitioner. And then I taught

00:32:02.859 - 00:32:16.640

massage for a couple of years and I went to acupuncture school and became an acupuncturist. And then I taught Chinese medicine at San Francisco State for a few years and at city college um for a few years and a few other places and, you know, supervised

00:32:16.650 - 00:32:31.459

clinical stuff. And I've just, and then the last five years I decided that enough of that and I became a park aid at, at Doran Beach cleaning bathrooms. And I loved it. And it was just, it's just such a wonderful angle to see people from, is

00:32:31.469 - 00:32:45.859

it someone who cleans bathrooms at a park? You know, and how people just react to you differently. And I just love that. So, and I love Dorn Beach just so all these different experiences just, just made everything richer and richer. And that's what I love and

00:32:45.869 - 00:33:03.180

that's what I think my, my life is about is having different, different experiences and, and often it involves relationships with people and different people, you know, because that's, I find that very expansive. So would you say like your favorite age is the age that you're at

00:33:03.189 - 00:33:21.750

right now or would you rather like go back to? Yeah. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's so far it's gotten better and better and better. It's really good. That is, that's what we all want, right? And it's totally possible. Um Were there

00:33:21.760 - 00:33:37.819

any like, fictional characters or like movie characters or book characters that you kind of like, um felt inspired from or just that, like, felt really connected to that helped you, like, while you were growing up or just throughout your life in general or like movies or

00:33:37.829 - 00:33:59.060

books or any, you know, anything like that in the media. I can't, I, I can think of books that were a big influence. I mean, like, you know, after that, during that whole time, you know, when I was a, I don't know what 12 it is.

00:33:59.069 - 00:34:14.959

Pre teen, when I was a pre teen, I'd go to the library and I'd look up lesbian. Of course, it was under psychological disorders and stuff and see if there's any books about it or things like that. But, um, so there was a, I think it

00:34:14.969 - 00:34:29.959

was Jill Johnson wrote a book and, and that was about being a lesbian and I, you know, read that book and hid it under my pillow. Um, so anything I could find there was a series, a Bibo Brinker series. I don't know if you've heard of

00:34:29.969 - 00:34:48.550

that, but that was so in the fifties and sixties and all that, even in the seventies, I think if you wrote a lesbian novel it had to have a bad ending. Mm. You know, because that was that because otherwise it would, you know, encourage, encourage, you

00:34:48.560 - 00:35:05.860

know, perversion or whatever, right? The whole world is going to be gay to find the truth. Yeah. So, things like that, I guess it, they were kind of a little bit of a lifeline, you know. Um, there is a, there is a publication called, uh, Lesbian

00:35:05.870 - 00:35:22.389

Connection and that's been going on for decades, decades and I've been subscribed to it on and off for at least 30 years and it's um anybody can, can write to it. It's just this little like, magazine thing and it's about what lesbians all over the United

00:35:22.399 - 00:35:35.959

States are doing, you know, and different groups and stuff like that. And then they have these, what they call contact dikes um in each area. So, like there's a contact ike in Santa Rosa. And if you're gonna visit Santa Rosa, California, you get in touch with

00:35:35.969 - 00:35:49.719

the contact IKE and they'll put you in touch with the queer community in Santa Rosa. So, stuff like that. So there were these little webs of, of threads of connection where, you know, people kind of help each other look out for each other, you know, which

00:35:49.729 - 00:36:05.604

is really nice and, and that's almost, it's almost gotten a little lost. The more acceptance there is, you know, the less you need that underground, you know, connection. So it's interesting. But yeah, so, no, I can't think of any like action heroes or anything. But how

00:36:05.614 - 00:36:29.530

about any teachers? Did you have any teachers that were action heroes for you? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hm. Do you have anything that you're standing out? I think we have about nine minutes left or so. Minutes left. Oh, gosh. Well, is there anything

00:36:29.540 - 00:36:52.209

that you really want to, to speak about or share about or? That is a good question? Just anything that you, um it's been interesting going through this cancer stuff and having mastectomy had a one sided. So I still got one I have and, and uh pretty

00:36:52.219 - 00:37:09.080

soon I'm gonna have to go through a hormone treatment, suppress my estrogen and progesterone, which will have the effect of increasing my, the influence of my testosterone. So I feel like I'm kind of involuntary trans, right. Which, and then I thought about it and I thought,

00:37:09.090 - 00:37:22.689

oh, that could be fun. I'm like, no, no, it's, and it's so interesting. It's like, so what, what makes me a woman and what makes me feel like? Is she her? And it's clearly not the way I dress or the way I move or the things

00:37:22.699 - 00:37:40.649

I do, you know, what is it? But I feel that so strongly and I don't know, I still don't know if it's such a deep, deep socialization, you know what I mean? But I really, inside, I feel like a woman and, and that's, I just think

00:37:40.659 - 00:38:00.800

that's so interesting because it's, it's hard to know, you know, it's, it's easy to, to judge things when you don't have the experience of it. You know what I mean? How could they ball? Well, yeah, you don't know, just except that you don't know and that

00:38:00.810 - 00:38:21.830

they do. Um, so yeah, so that whole, the whole gender thing. I really love all the turmoil and all the, you know, changes that are happening around gender. I think that is just awesome. Wonderful. All right, we can wrap it up if there's anything else last

00:38:21.840 - 00:38:31.750

minute or are we feeling? Good? Good, good. Well, thank you so much. That's amazing. It's so wonderful to meet you. I'm so happy you're doing this. It's really good to meet you too.